Knights of Ni

Mirri Maz Duur's Prophecy

41 posts in this topic

Here is the whole thing.:

""When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before"

Now lets break it down.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" - Quentyn from Westeros dies(sets) in Essos. This seems pretty straight forward

"When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Theon going inland away from the sea and drying(shrinking) from capture and torture. - Ser Patrek of kings' Mountain blowing in the wind as Wun Wun killed him.

I might be reaching on this but the Iron born are the most closely related to the sea. I would have to go back and check but I am almost certain that Jon describes the Ser Patrek's body as a leaf.

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. " Dany will go back to the Womb of the World and unite the Khalasars(Living child) thus bring back the power of Drogo just not him.

Pure theory but discuss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Theon going inland away from the sea and drying(shrinking) from capture and torture. - Ser Patrek of kings' Mountain blowing in the wind as Wun Wun killed him.

...

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. " Dany will go back to the Womb of the World and unite the Khalasars(Living child) thus bring back the power of Drogo just not him.

...

I agree with the Quentyn interpretation, however for the quoted;

Seas go dry many think is the Dothraki "sea" which we have seen 'drying' as the seasons change. The green grass turning to brown, etc.

'The womb quickening and bearing a living child' is likely Mirra taunting Dany thinking she has been rendered infertile after the blood magic. However, we may have seen Dany's womb quickening with the blood on her thighs in the last chapter of ADWD... so this may be yet to come (or it may be the bloody flux). Perhaps she will bear a living child later in the story and name him Drogo?

ETA - Oh and the mountains blowing in the wind may refer to the destruction of the pyramids in Mereen, assuming the dragons break loose and start wrecking sh*t.

Edited by Dornish Whine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really count this as a "prophecy" but more as just a round about way of saying never. Though its possible a series of events will happen that lead some people to claim the prophecy has been fulfilled, though like most things it will be pretty ambiguous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MMD's prophecy was in response to a question posed by Dany: When will he [Drogo] be as he was. We know that Drogo is dead and cremated so he can never be as he was. I think that this is a possible foreshadowing that Dany dies during childbirth and is reunited with Drogo in the Night Lands.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" - I believe this to be Quentyn

"When the seas go dry" - I think this refers to the Dothraki sea.

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves" - could refer to the pyramids of Meereen

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child." - there is a theory that Dany may have suffered a miscarriage at the end of ADwD but I believe that this bit of the prophecy has not yet come to pass as Dany has not yet borne a living child.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MMD's prophecy was in response to a question posed by Dany: When will he [Drogo] be as he was. We know that Drogo is dead and cremated so he can never be as he was. I think that this is a possible foreshadowing that Dany dies during childbirth and is reunited with Drogo in the Night Lands.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" - I believe this to be Quentyn

"When the seas go dry" - I think this refers to the Dothraki sea.

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves" - could refer to the pyramids of Meereen

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child." - there is a theory that Dany may have suffered a miscarriage at the end of ADwD but I believe that this bit of the prophecy has not yet come to pass as Dany has not yet borne a living child.

Well, it's been a while since I thought of this. I have opened a thread somewhere in March, April about this, and we all couldn't agree what the "prophecy" says will happen. Her line can give us timeline of events, but at the end, it is obscure what exactly MMD is prophecizing here. As you said, it was respond to the question When will he be as he was? and logically Drogo will never return, so MMD was just saying never in poetic way. But what if MMD was talking about Khal and khallasar, that all of those lines led Daenerys back to Dothraki sea where she will unite Drogo's khallasar once again.Perhaps it wasn't about Drogo himself but his Khal title... All of this is crackpot speculation :)

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves" - I actually think this might be reference to Robert Strong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But what if MMD was talking about Khal and khallasar, that all of those lines led Daenerys back to Dothraki sea where she will unite Drogo's khallasar once again.Perhaps it wasn't about Drogo himself but his Khal title... All of this is crackpot speculation :)

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves" - I actually think this might be reference to Robert Strong

Yeah this could point to Dany uniting the Khalasar's. Should that happen then it will fulfill one of the visions Dany had in the HoTU where the crones are bowing down to her. I think its plausible that Dany unites the Khalasar's in Vaes Dothrak and the crones proclaim her as the STMTW.

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves" - could also foreshadow the collapse of The Wall.

Edited by The Titans Bastard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thoughts about a few of the passages:

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves" could refer to a seismic event, such as a volcano erupting. There is speculation that the Doom of Valyria resulted from a volcanic eruption, similar to Krakatoa or Mr. St. Helens.

"When your womb quickens again and you bear a living child." Along the lines of what Mladen has already proposed, metaphorically speaking, her womb quickening could refer to her maturation from naive innocent to determined leader. As a result of this process, she became a "mother" to her followers.

(She also gave "birth" to 3 dragons, but I doubt this would qualify; it seems kind of cheesy)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the Quentyn interpretation, however for the quoted;

Seas go dry many think is the Dothraki "sea" which we have seen 'drying' as the seasons change. The green grass turning to brown, etc.

'The womb quickening and bearing a living child' is likely Mirra taunting Dany thinking she has been rendered infertile after the blood magic. However, we may have seen Dany's womb quickening with the blood on her thighs in the last chapter of ADWD... so this may be yet to come (or it may be the bloody flux). Perhaps she will bear a living child later in the story and name him Drogo?

ETA - Oh and the mountains blowing in the wind may refer to the destruction of the pyramids in Mereen, assuming the dragons break loose and start wrecking sh*t.

Good catching!And a crackpot theory:Drogon has Drogo's soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really count this as a "prophecy" but more as just a round about way of saying never. Though its possible a series of events will happen that lead some people to claim the prophecy has been fulfilled, though like most things it will be pretty ambiguous.

Basically this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the whole thing.:

""When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before"

Now lets break it down.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" - Quentyn from Westeros dies(sets) in Essos. This seems pretty straight forward

"When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Theon going inland away from the sea and drying(shrinking) from capture and torture. - Ser Patrek of kings' Mountain blowing in the wind as Wun Wun killed him.

I might be reaching on this but the Iron born are the most closely related to the sea. I would have to go back and check but I am almost certain that Jon describes the Ser Patrek's body as a leaf.

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. " Dany will go back to the Womb of the World and unite the Khalasars(Living child) thus bring back the power of Drogo just not him.

Pure theory but discuss.

Right - I agree with you with the first.

I'm unsure with regards to the second component of this prophecy - I have a hunch that it might refer to Jon in some way but have no proof for that atm. I'm still trying to work it out but I think it could possibly refer to Dany heading North amidst the coming of the Others? As I said, not sure - I need to sleep on it.

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before" - I think that (taking inspiration from other posters) Dany might die in childbirth, and as a result, she will be reunited with Drogo (the scene in the TV series made me consider this as well).

But I definitely think that this prophecy is laden with hints regarding Jon Snow (if you believe R+L=J for instance) that I am currently missing out on. I'll tell you why.

When Mirri Maz Duur is performing blood magic on Drogo in the tent at the end of Game of Thrones, Dany sees shadows on the pavillion: one of them consist of a wolf, the second consists of a man engulfed in flames.

Irri I think says to Dany that Mirri knows "the secrets of the bloody bed" as she is chanting. Taken with the shadows that Dany sees, I am almost certain that Mirri is referring to Jon Snow - the secrets of the "bloody bed" could be the secret birth of Jon as the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but how Jon is significant to Mirri, Drogo and the blood magic performed I'm not sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to suggest an alternate explanation. This happened in the first book, when GRRM thought the series would be a trilogy and there would be a five year gap. I bet a lot of things that he had planned for the characters got changed, and perhaps this "prophecy" no longer fits with the events that have and will occur.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only part of the prophesy I am sure has happened is the sun (Quentyn) rising in the west and setting in the east. Everything else I am not sure about, but since the sun part of the prophesy has already occured, I am sure the others will occur as well at some point. What that will lead to I'm not sure (Drogo won't be coming to life though).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone made an amazing thread on this,that

the sun=quentyn

sea=dothraki sea drying up

mountains= mother of mountains

womb=womb of the world

If MMD's words are a prophecy than this seems the most likely since they are all close to her at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves"



--- I think this refers to Areo Hotah eventually killing Robert Strong. ---



Hear me out.



So out of all the noble Houses of Westeros, only two have leaves as their sigils: House Blanetree and House Oakheart. Next, Cersei gave the Mountain's re-animated corpse a White Cloak, so he can fight at her trial. I think he'll win, and that Cersei and Gregor will wreak some more of their respective brands of havoc.



I can see either Doran or Cersei initiating a showdown, which will lead to Areo fighting the Mountain. There are plenty of paths to get there: 1) Cersei kidnaps one of the Sand Snakes sent to spy in King's Landing. 2) Doran Martell is pissed that the Mountain is still "breathing". 3) Myrcella spills the beans about what really happened, which provokes Cersei.



"The mountains blow in the wind like leaves" = Areo Hotah kills Gregor Clegane of the Kingsguard, just like he killed Arys Oakheart of the Kingsguard.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....

"The mountains blow in the wind like leaves" = Areo Hotah kills Gregor Clegane of the Kingsguard, just like he killed Arys Oakheart of the Kingsguard.

I can see where you are coming from here, but what does this have to do with Dany? I think it would be strange for Mirri to be talking about something that might happen in Westeros which seems to have nothing to do with Ms. Stormborn (if you're nasty).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the whole thing.:

""When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before"

Now lets break it down.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" - Quentyn from Westeros dies(sets) in Essos. This seems pretty straight forward

"When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Theon going inland away from the sea and drying(shrinking) from capture and torture. - Ser Patrek of kings' Mountain blowing in the wind as Wun Wun killed him.

I might be reaching on this but the Iron born are the most closely related to the sea. I would have to go back and check but I am almost certain that Jon describes the Ser Patrek's body as a leaf.

"When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. " Dany will go back to the Womb of the World and unite the Khalasars(Living child) thus bring back the power of Drogo just not him.

Pure theory but discuss.

I definitely agree with Quentyn "setting in the East".

As for Patrek of King's mountain, I like the idea and it's definitely a possibility, but I find it easier to believe that it's referring to the Dothraki Sea drying up in Dany's last chapter in DWD.

I have the idea stuck in my head that the "Mountains" that "blow in the wind like leaves" were to do with the Pyramids of Meereen after the escape of the dragons, being reduced to ash and blowing off in the winds.

I did think that Dany's "moon blood" might have been a sign to her womb quickening, as I had the impression that she hadn't had it for months, or at least couldn't remember the last time she had had it. However, if it is indeed a miscarriage, which most people are saying is most biologically accurate, then I'm still unsure about whether her having her "moon blood" was any indication to the prophesy at all. I do however thing think the probability of her ultimately bearing a child is great and there will be some metaphorical way for her to "bear a living son".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It amazes me how some people actually consider Mirri's words to be a prophecy. They never were, just a mocking way of saying never.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO mountains blowing in the wind like leaves refers to the deaths of supposedly great people like Ned or Tywin. Also, the grass of the Dothraki sea was dry in Dany's last chapter, so that may be something. Dany also had an unnaturally bloody period there which leads me to believe it was some sort of an abortion (natural, of course). Which means her wound quickened again.

To be honest, though, I think it's not really a prophecy but more of a little Easter egg planted by GRRM to foreshadow the arrival of Khal Jhaqo and his Khalasar ("that's when your Khal will return to you"). Basically a little joke, nothing of major importance.

Edited by jentario

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think jentario nailed it. It's not a prophecy per se, but it doesn't mean it won't happen. Call it an easter-egg, and inside joke, foreshadowing, whatever. The "prophecy" was MMD's way of saying never, but Quentyn Martell, the Dothraki Sea and whatever the mountains mean is GRRM's way of saying that MMD was wrong.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sun (son) rises in the west and sets in the east could refer to Aegon (young Griff) rising in the west since he is also the son of Elia Martell and Quentyn setting in the east. Or it could refer to Tyrion Lannister departing from the Sunrise Gate at Illyrio's Manse to journey east (hat tip Evita mfgs); the lion is also closely associated with sun symbolism.



I do think that the sea symbolism refers to the Iron Born given Jojen's dream that the sea came to Winterfell and Theon's part in it. Asha's wish is that the Iron Born leave the sea and settle on land.



There is also Patchface's cryptic under the sea pronouncements to consider.



Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.



The reference to green, blue and black could refer to Euron's eyes (one black, one blue) and Tyrion's eyes (one black, one green). Theon is only a minor incursion of the sea. Euron intends to take all of Westeros. Or at least, that's the intention of the crow's eye shining with malice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.