The Old Tongue Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I always felt that something important was being kept at the Inn at the Crossroads, some sort of indicator for TPTWP. Mayhaps Lem is there to protect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The Rhaegar vs. Robert thing and the possibility that Richard chose Robert over Rhaegar and came to regret it (another lord vs. king/prince loyalty split) just brings me back to the Lonmouth words: The Choice is Yours. Given that Richard is the only Lonmouth we have any info on and he's (you would think) dead, the inclusion of house words at all (even in a non-book context) and those words in particular are really curious. And of course, again, Richard's (anonymous, which makes it even quirkier) inclusion in the KotLT story. Or Richard chose his friend Rhaegar over his liege lord Robert, and he ended up losing everything, because of that decision. Jon Darry's manner of death isn't specified as many have noted compared to the fates of Barristan and Lewyn Martell. I think he could have gotten sick on the way to the Trident, something going through the camp, and died from his illness. Rhaegar could have then named Richard as a new member of the KG. Richard became a new member of the KG, and unlike the one Jaime mentioned who died within the hour of donning his cloak but his king lived, Richard lived but his royal, Rhaegar, died. He would take it badly feeling he was given the cloak not too long ago, and then failed his duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I clocked this comment about Lem talking about Stolen Armor the first time I read it....it seemed so random and out of place to me that it stood out-I like that I have a reasonable explanation for why he said it now. This is old, but also the Toyne in the Kingswood Brotherhood entered a tourney as a Mystery Knight, probably with a stolen armor, and was unhorsed by Rhaegar. Lemon probably witnessed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Crackpot Alert: Might Lem Be Richard Lonmouth and gay and in love with Robert? TRP spoilers Joffrey Lonmouth, aka the Knight of Kisses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Now this I can get behind, much more than the Lem is Allar Deem nonsense someone was trying to explain.Probably won't amount to a whole lot in the grand scheme, but it's neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I always felt that something important was being kept at the Inn at the Crossroads, some sort of indicator for TPTWP. Mayhaps Lem is there to protect it. This was mentioned in another thread, and I just want to marvel at the beauty of its Matrix for a moment... Also, I like the idea of the Inn at the Crossroads being an important location in TWoW/ADoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Minor WoIaF spoiler ... Nothing is said about Richard's ultimate fate. Far as I'm concerned, this theory is still in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Song so Sweet Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Why is this crackpot? It seems legit to me and it would add to the story if it were true, so I am on board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Minor WoIaF spoiler ... Nothing is said about Richard's ultimate fate. Far as I'm concerned, this theory is still in play. Furthermore... Rhaegar had half a dozen of his closest companions with him when he encountered Lyanna. Who wants to bet RL was one of the four unnamed? And my money's still on the Inn at the Crossroads as the locale ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Furthermore... Rhaegar had half a dozen of his closest companions with him when he encountered Lyanna. Who wants to bet RL was one of the four unnamed? And my money's still on the Inn at the Crossroads as the locale ;) Yep to all of this. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the six mentioned are those same six mentioned in book to be supporters of Rhaegar: Arthur, Whent, Lewyn, Lonmouth, Mooton and Connington. The app suggests that only Arthur and Whent were involved in the "kidnapping", so I assume the group split. Rhaegar took A and W (and Lyanna) to Dorne and the other group returned to KL, unaware of what had happened. It was also suggested that the reason for Brandon to go to KL (instead of DS, the known residence of Rhaegar) was that he was following the wrong group. We know the fate of all of them except Lonmouth. They all participated in the Rebellion, and either died or went sent off. Lonmouth, who is also remembered as being Robert's drinking buddy, could have eventually switched sides and join his liege lord. If he was in some way involved with Robert's, maybe the reason he disappeared (and it's now Lemcloak) is guilt, as the Rebellion killed his former friend and his family. Also, I think the place "not ten leagues from Harrenhall" is Darry. We only know is very close to HH. One of the KG was a Darry. Just as Whent's family offered his own home for a possible conspiracy, probably Darry did the same, and the seven men reunited to conspire something without the danger of Varys listening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the six mentioned are those same six mentioned in book to be supporters of Rhaegar: Arthur, Whent, Lewyn, Lonmouth, Mooton and Connington. The app suggests that only Arthur and Whent were involved in the "kidnapping", so I assume the group split. Rhaegar took A and W (and Lyanna) to Dorne and the other group returned to KL, unaware of what had happened. It was also suggested that the reason for Brandon to go to KL (instead of DS, the known residence of Rhaegar) was that he was following the wrong group. We know the fate of all of them except Lonmouth. They all participated in the Rebellion, and either died or went sent off. Lonmouth, who is also remembered as being Robert's drinking buddy, could have eventually switched sides and join his liege lord. If he was in some way involved with Robert's, maybe the reason he disappeared (and it's now Lemcloak) is guilt, as the Rebellion killed his former friend and his family. Also, I think the place "not ten leagues from Harrenhall" is Darry. We only know is very close to HH. One of the KG was a Darry. Just as Whent's family offered his own home for a possible conspiracy, probably Darry did the same, and the seven men reunited to conspire something without the danger of Varys listening to them.I'm think all of those companions are spot on, except Lewyn. Grrm did say Dorne was pissed, and nothing in the world book disputes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm think all of those companions are spot on, except Lewyn. Grrm did say Dorne was pissed, and nothing in the world book disputes that. Lewyn was one of Rhaegar's closest confidants, that's in the book. That's why I don't believe Rhaegar's motivation to go to the Riverlands with his friends was to take Lyanna. Why would he do that in front of Lewyn, who could have helped him getting the eventual support from Dorne? If Lewyn was one of those men -something I'm sure it happened-, his actions make no sense. But, if he and his men had different intentions by going there, like plotting something, and just after Lewyn and the other returned, they found out about Lyanna, that would explain Dorne being mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Lewyn was one of Rhaegar's closest confidants, that's in the book. That's why I don't believe Rhaegar's motivation to go to the Riverlands with his friends was to take Lyanna. Why would he do that in front of Lewyn, who could have helped him getting the eventual support from Dorne? If Lewyn was one of those men -something I'm sure it happened-, his actions make no sense. But, if he and his men had different intentions by going there, like plotting something, and just after Lewyn and the other returned, they found out about Lyanna, that would explain Dorne being mad.That does make sense. Also, where is it sugggested that Brandon was following a group? In the app or the world book? Was there perhaps some spies tracking down Rhaegar & Co in the Riverlands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 That does make sense. Also, where is it sugggested that Brandon was following a group? In the app or the world book? Was there perhaps some spies tracking down Rhaegar & Co in the Riverlands? It was suggested by boarders here. But it does make sense. What I believe is that Brandon could have heard that Rhaegar was there, and they saw his men returning to KL, so, he followed them, believing Rhaegar was with them. Rhaegar, by that time, was discreetly going to Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think the six mentioned are those same six mentioned in book to be supporters of Rhaegar: Arthur, Whent, Lewyn, Lonmouth, Mooton and Connington. The app suggests that only Arthur and Whent were involved in the "kidnapping", so I assume the group split. Rhaegar took A and W (and Lyanna) to Dorne and the other group returned to KL, unaware of what had happened. It was also suggested that the reason for Brandon to go to KL (instead of DS, the known residence of Rhaegar) was that he was following the wrong group. We know the fate of all of them except Lonmouth. They all participated in the Rebellion, and either died or went sent off. Lonmouth, who is also remembered as being Robert's drinking buddy, could have eventually switched sides and join his liege lord. If he was in some way involved with Robert's, maybe the reason he disappeared (and it's now Lemcloak) is guilt, as the Rebellion killed his former friend and his family. Also, I think the place "not ten leagues from Harrenhall" is Darry. We only know is very close to HH. One of the KG was a Darry. Just as Whent's family offered his own home for a possible conspiracy, probably Darry did the same, and the seven men reunited to conspire something without the danger of Varys listening to them. I've argued much the same about Lonmouth. There are some broken man allusions in Lem's arc and a reference to a wife and daughter, whom I suspect may have been in KL during the Sack. As for Darry, perhaps it was involved. Don't forget that Castle Darry is hard by the Inn at the Crossroads-- in AGoT as the royal party heads south on the Kingsroad, they occupy both the Inn and the Castle during the incident between Arya and Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I've argued much the same about Lonmouth. There are some broken man allusions in Lem's arc and a reference to a wife and daughter, whom I suspect may have been in KL during the Sack. As for Darry, perhaps it was involved. Don't forget that Castle Darry is hard by the Inn at the Crossroads-- in AGoT as the royal party heads south on the Kingsroad, they occupy both the Inn and the Castle during the incident between Arya and Joffrey. Interesting read. I might eventually re-read a bit of him now we have this info from the new book. Anyway, as I mentioned in another thread, he was called "the K of the Skulls and kisses" in Meera's story. Kisses are also associated with betrayal (due to Judas), so, that might be a small indication of him being the one telling something, or choosing Robert's side. He could be dead, yes, but that would make a bad narrative. He either switched sides or probably decided to hide himself to protect his own family (look at what happened to the Darrys and Griffins after the war, due to their Targaryen loyalty). Or he felts guilty for what happened to the babies. I'll try a re-read of the two Griff's chapters (and Dance), in case he mentions something about anything related to betrayal, but I think there is nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I've argued much the same about Lonmouth. There are some broken man allusions in Lem's arc and a reference to a wife and daughter, whom I suspect may have been in KL during the Sack. As for Darry, perhaps it was involved. Don't forget that Castle Darry is hard by the Inn at the Crossroads-- in AGoT as the royal party heads south on the Kingsroad, they occupy both the Inn and the Castle during the incident between Arya and Joffrey.... "hard by the inn" ... You need to come up for air :) Put down the book and go trick-or-treating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 ... "hard by the inn" ... You need to come up for air :) Put down the book and go trick-or-treating! :lol: I've been already. I'm either in sugar shock or frozen. Maybe both ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Two things: 1) Myles Mooton gives Rhaegar and company access to Maidenpool, a port either coming or going to Dragonstone. 2) Lonmouth might have been tasked with informing Robert Baratheon and somehow failed in this task. Did the AWoIaF book mention where Rhaegar and company left from on the way to the Riverlands? I don't have the book on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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