Cersei Lannister the Sympathetic Villain

[Ranger Kragin]

Cersei is a victim of her pride, IMHO

She has suffered years of humiliations from a drunkard she has been forced to marry, like a horse, and saw her chance to raise once she took the power.

Robert did a revolution and killed thousands to take the power (or some may say revenge), while she had only to kill 1 to have it.

She is alone, absolutely alone, not even supported by her own father or son.

She is determined to show what a "king" she could be, but fails to see that she needed support instead of fear.

But this is exactly Tywin Lannister strategy, "let them fear you and reign". How can she be otherwise?

She has never learned that only because she can it doesn't mean that she should.

Blinded by her pride and the power of in her hands of doing what she likes, because she could never do so as a daughter or consort.

She is indeed one of the most tragic characters of the series, from my POV, because she never has a chance to redemption, except the Walk of Shame.

That's her trial like Jaime loss of his sword hand, but while he had Brienne to guide and support him, Cersei again is left alone.

Abandoned to her fate from men and gods alike.

Yes indeed, the most tragic character.

Definitely no happy ending there, but a painful one. Yes, I pity her.

[Basebourne]

Robert has next to nothing to do with the way Cersei is.

[Sullen]

Cersei? Really?

Theon, Jaime, Tyrion, and (evenually) Dany are miles ahead of her in terms of being sympathetic antagonists.

[Okaythen]

We have veered off topic here. He was making a compiarison between Cersei and Ramsay, so I made the comment about how there ARE people who like Cersei, which cannot be said for Ramsay, to show the unfairness of the remark.

I thought your point was quite interesting and just wanted to respond. You're right though I shouldn't drag things off topic.

[Arya kiddin']

Cersei is a victim of her pride, IMHO

She has suffered years of humiliations from a drunkard she has been forced to marry, like a horse, and saw her chance to raise once she took the power.

Robert did a revolution and killed thousands to take the power (or some may say revenge), while she had only to kill 1 to have it.

She is alone, absolutely alone, not even supported by her own father or son.

She is determined to show what a "king" she could be, but fails to see that she needed support instead of fear.

But this is exactly Tywin Lannister strategy, "let them fear you and reign". How can she be otherwise?

She has never learned that only because she can it doesn't mean that she should.

Blinded by her pride and the power of in her hands of doing what she likes, because she could never do so as a daughter or consort.

She is indeed one of the most tragic characters of the series, from my POV, because she never has a chance to redemption, except the Walk of Shame.

That's her trial like Jaime loss of his sword hand, but while he had Brienne to guide and support him, Cersei again is left alone.

Abandoned to her fate from men and gods alike.

Yes indeed, the most tragic character.

Definitely no happy ending there, but a painful one. Yes, I pity her.

I wrote exactly along these lines on another thread, and received way too much bashing for it. I argued further, that Cersei would/might not have turned out like this should she had been raised in the care of a mother.

[Thendel]

Cersei is a victim of her pride, IMHO

She has suffered years of humiliations from a drunkard she has been forced to marry, like a horse, and saw her chance to raise once she took the power.

Robert did a revolution and killed thousands to take the power (or some may say revenge), while she had only to kill 1 to have it.

She is alone, absolutely alone, not even supported by her own father or son.

She is determined to show what a "king" she could be, but fails to see that she needed support instead of fear.

But this is exactly Tywin Lannister strategy, "let them fear you and reign". How can she be otherwise?

She has never learned that only because she can it doesn't mean that she should.

Blinded by her pride and the power of in her hands of doing what she likes, because she could never do so as a daughter or consort.

She is indeed one of the most tragic characters of the series, from my POV, because she never has a chance to redemption, except the Walk of Shame.

That's her trial like Jaime loss of his sword hand, but while he had Brienne to guide and support him, Cersei again is left alone.

Abandoned to her fate from men and gods alike.

Yes indeed, the most tragic character.

Definitely no happy ending there, but a painful one. Yes, I pity her.

One, the phrase "victim of her pride" implies that she is actually a victim that cannot be held accountable for her actions. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Two, if you think Robert actually wanted power for its own sake, you really don't understand his character. And no, Cersei didn't just kill "one man" - she has more blood on her hands than Lady Macbeth.

Three, why do you think she is pushed aside by Joffrey and Tywin? She is completely inept as a mother and as the agent Tywin needed in King's Landing. She is definitely not without blame here.

Four, she has repeatedly been shown to have a very narrow and fundamentally misguided understanding of Tywin's ideas of ruling. As Jaime put it, Tywin was a glacier whereas Cersei is wildfire, fickle and inconstant. Her inability to see this is her own fault.

Five, Cersei had access to absurd wealth and power, courtesy of being the daughter of Tywin and the wife of King Robert. When Tywin died, she could without a doubt have depended on Jaime and Kevan to reinforce and strengthen her rule (or at least that of her son), but her inability to discern dissent from defiance caused her to push them away, and she endeavored to surround herself with lickspittles, lackwits and persons of questionable motives. Her isolation is 100% of her own doing.

All in all, your post seems to be trying to cast Cersei as being a victim of her circumstances, rather than an actor who allowed her greed, arrogance and paranoia to facilitate her own downfall. Yes, she has suffered, but that pales in comparison to the suffering she has deliberately visited on others.

[Pootie Tang]

I thought your point was quite interesting and just wanted to respond. You're right though I shouldn't drag things off topic.

Oh sorry then, hope I wasn't being overly harsh.

[King Robert's Warhammer]

Sorry Cersei. Not deserving of much sympathy imo. Robert was a terrible husband but you were well down the path of unhinged,murdery before he said "Lyanna" on your wedding night.

[Pootie Tang]

I wrote exactly along these lines on another thread, and received way too much bashing for it. I argued further, that Cersei would/might not have turned out like this should she had been raised in the care of a mother.

Funny phrasing here. It is like: Precsiely down to the smallest of detail, something that resembles it.

[Julian Rayne]

I think that she's sympathetic too. And I do like her, even though she's a horrible, horrible person.

[Ranger Kragin]

I wrote exactly along these lines on another thread, and received way too much bashing for it. I argued further, that Cersei would/might not have turned out like this should she had been raised in the care of a mother.

Too bad.!

One of the things that GRRM teaches us is to go beyond the first impression. His characters are never totally evil and are never totally good. it takes a while to see the other side.

Jaimie is one of them.

Look at the arc Danny is taking, from everyone's pet.

Tyrion himself is capable of dark deeds, who would have guessed?

I'd love to see her character re-read under the perspective of her personal trials. Hopefully someone will think about it.

[Arya kiddin']

Funny phrasing here. It is like: Precsiely down to the smallest of detail, something that resembles it.

Here you go.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oe2ij/

[SeanF]

Too bad.!

One of the things that GRRM teaches us is to go beyond the first impression. His characters are never totally evil and are never totally good. it takes a while to see the other side.

Jaimie is one of them.

Look at the arc Danny is taking, from everyone's pet.

Tyrion himself is capable of dark deeds, who would have guessed?

I'd love to see her character re-read under the perspective of her personal trials. Hopefully someone will think about it.

Jaime, Dany, and Tyrion have all committed acts every bit as bad as Cersei's. But, they are all shown to have more redeeming features than she has.

[Pootie Tang]

Here you go.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oe2ij/

Wasn't Grammarnazying btw. Merely remaking on that you had chosen to express yourself in a way that I found amusing. What kind of person doesn't have enough self distance to find it a least bit funny when they express themselves a bit clumsily?

[Blueberry Stark]

It's strange. If Cersei was being led to the Block, it would be less harrowing.

I agree, because that, at least to me, would feel like justice.

[Steinnis]

:bs:

This sums it up pretty nicely.

[SeanF]

I agree, because that, at least to me, would feel like justice.

It would be justice, and it wouldn't involve public humiliation. In European culture, it was considered to be a dignified death for members of the nobility.

[Arya kiddin']

Wasn't Grammarnazying btw. Merely remaking on that you had chosen to express yourself in a way that I found amusing. What kind of person doesn't have enough self distance to find it a least bit funny when they express themselves a bit clumsily?

Sure thing. :)

[Pootie Tang]

Sure thing. :)

Sorry, my damie :cheers:

[toffeejay]

HBO Cersei is obviously more sympathetic and I presume the article is based on that.

As for book Cersei, compared with Ramsey she is sympathetic because her actions are for a reason not just evilness but I dont think killing babies to protect her own children leads to a sympathetic character.