What's with the Sandor “Hotness”?

[Petyr Patter]

Like many readers, I first read the Hound as your typical violent, sadistic henchmen, but later in A Game of Thrones appreciated Martin's efforts to show how he got that way and how he still has some tiny bits of human kindness left in him.

However, some readers interpret the character very differently: as a romantic ideal, especially for Sansa Stark. This makes readers like me think: WHAT THE FUCK?

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, a deleted scene from Season 2 will keep this post shorter than it otherwise would be:

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We see a terrified Sansa being hurt by a contemptuous and lewd Sandor. Add a knife held to her throat and one would have a very good adaptation of the book relationship.

Yeah, yeah, I know Sandor on a few occasions step forward to protect her, usually from Joffrey. I get that he is a gray character. If he had a better childhood and worked for a family not morally black as the Lannisters he might have grown up to be an OK guy. If and buts, this describes most criminals. Sandor Clegane throughout the novels is every father's nightmare boyfriend for their daughter.

So, why all the “SanSan” fans? I think I found the answer, or at least somewhat answering a similar question in a way that makes sense to my latent paternal male instinct. I'm not going to take credit for another guy's work (or rather another guy with a much larger social media following asking a very similar question), so here's another link: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/39300-nostalgia-critic-why-is-loki-so-hot .

Mark Walker asks and answers why Loki from the Avengers movie was the source of so many fanfictions, drawings, cosplays, and what not, despite being a “not-very-handsome” villain. Here are the reasons. I do recommend people like me confounded by "SanSan" fandom watch the original thing in its entirety.

1. The actor that plays him does a good job with the role.
   
   
2. He's powerful.
   
   
3. He's a “bad boy.”
   
   
4. He's a “woobie,” which is a made up term for a character who the viewer/reader feels sorry for.
   

Clearly, Loki and Sandor are not one-to-one equivalent. However, certain parallels can certainly be drawn. Women are attracted to powerful men and dangerous men. Why? Because they can be powerful and dangerous in the service of protecting them. Of course, the Loki/Sandor must also show some vulnerability. Perhaps a lot of vulnerability. Because that vulnerability is where not only a woman can put here nurturing nature to use, but also win the heart and devotion of that man.

Also closely entwined is the concept of “being the only one.” When a man has completely failed to find love in his life, that just means he has found the “true love,” that special girl, of which there is only one, who can reach his heart and make him whole. Because romance is so much sweeter when probability so clearly does not favor it. Relevant: http://what-if.xkcd.com/9/ . Regardless, by virtue of being literately the only woman that can make a man complete, that women monopolizes his devotion 10 fold, knowing he can never replace her.

So, that sort of makes sense. I am also gagging a bit right now. Notice it doesn't make Sandor Clegane any less violent, troubled, and so not going to date my daughter marry Sansa. Obviously the guy ran down Mycah and slew him from horseback. He also was an active participant in the slaughter of the Stark household. The latter was after Eddard Stark had attainted and condemned his brother to die. Did that earn any brownie points from this man? And apparently, I am not alone in this assessment. Some guy named George finds the “SanSan” crowds “interesting”:

So, I think its entirely safe to say, if you see Sandor Clegane as this wonderful specimen of man that any young girl would be lucky to have... you don't get it. Sure, Martin may play with some degree of sexual tension between the two, but much like Victorian's erection when Asha proposes he let her be his hand, we're suppose to cringe. I mean, Sandor held a knife to Sansa's throat and demanded she sing for him. WHAT THE FUCK?

PS) I'm totally hoping for a Sandor Clegane as High Septon by series end.

[Jon of the Dead]

I remembered reading a Season 2 review published somewhere in this site where the reviewer referred to Sandor and Sansa's relationship as "one of the greatest love stories of all time"

My face was like this for an hour :stunned:

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I don't think anything will happen between them, but I have a question. What's with the song? Why did he ask her to sing him a song?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I don't think anything will happen between them, but I have a question. What's with the song? Why did he ask her to sing him a song?

Perhaps his dead younger sister, who died under mysterious circumstances (i.e., Gregor-Induced demise) at a young age" used to sing. And his connection with Sansa and Arya is based on guilt over not being able to save her.

But whatever, that's sort of a different question than what the OP asked, which is why there is that interest by so many in seeing that happen. It clearly puzzles GRRM himself in that interview.

[Dire-Lion]

I don't think anything will happen between them, but I have a question. What's with the song? Why did he ask her to sing him a song?

He asks her to sing a song because he is mocking her naive view of life as she believes that it all is like the songs she sings. Sansa refuses because at this point she has realized that the songs are lies.

OP, I never got the attraction to Sandor, and saw their relationship being one that was done to show that the knights in the story are no true knights. Sandor, a horrible guy, is more a knight than her for how he treats Sansa, occasionally.

[MrsClegane]

I remembered reading a Season 2 review published somewhere in this site where the reviewer referred to Sandor and Sansa's relationship as "one of the greatest love stories of all time"

My face was like this for an hour :stunned:

Still better lovestory than Twilight :cool4:

As for the Sandor "hotness" I think the soultion lies in that we somehow can find some explanation even for worst Sandor deeds/words.

1. The Hound killing Mycah.

Sure, killing a child is never ok, but let's not forget Sandor was protecting the realm - Mycah was accused of attempting to kill the prince. I also think there is a possibility he protected Arya's life - she was the one who attacked Joffrey and who knows with what punishment Lannisters would treat her.

2. Sandor's putting a knife on Sansa's throat

I think he was so terified by wildfire, thus he behaved so wild and dangerously. On the other hand he was afraid of Sansa's life as well (Stannis was winning the battle at that point) and maybe tried to force her to escape with him by putting a dagger on her neck?

3. The Hound's words on his deathbed

One user wrote once that Sandor said he wanted to rape Sansa. Well, "should have" =/= "want" , at least in my dictionary. I share the popular opinion that Sandor wanted to convince Arya to kill him, but IMO these words proves that he really care for Sansa too. He didin't said 'He wanted to fuck her for his own pleasure, he wanted to fuck her and kill her BEFORE LEAVING HER FOR THE IMP. Sure, Sandor misjudged Tyrion, but these are the Lannisters who we talk about. The same Lannisters from "Rains of Castamere" - guys who slaughtered whole family with the cold blood. The Hound was hella terified about Sansa's fate.

I may agree he is not perfect boyfriend material though, but I think he has a chance for being a better human being. But a High Septon?! No fuckin way!

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

He asks her to sing a song because he is mocking her naive view of life as she believes that it all is like the songs she sings. Sansa refuses because at this point she has realized that the songs are lies.

OP, I never got the attraction to Sandor, and saw their relationship being one that was done to show that the knights in the story are no true knights. Sandor, a horrible guy, is more a knight than her for how he treats Sansa, occasionally.

Sansa clearly had some sort of romantic feelings for him, but that always struck me as just part of her growing up. She's the squeaky-clean cheerleader from junior high falling for the high school "bad boy", which is a trope that has been done to death but has always had a huge appeal for some. And while that may give the appearance of maturity to someone who only valued fairy-tale images of perfection, it really is nothing more than more romantic idealization -- a fantasy of a different sort.

Ultimately, she'll probably figure out that the answer isn't perfect Loras, or bad-boy Sandor, but something far less fantasy-based.

[Dire-Lion]

Sansa clearly had some sort of romantic feelings for him, but that always struck me as just part of her growing up. She's the squeaky-clean cheerleader from junior high falling for the high school "bad boy", which is a trope that has been done to death but has always had a huge appeal for some. And while that may give the appearance of maturity to someone who only valued fairy-tale images of perfection, it really is nothing more than more romantic idealization -- a fantasy of a different sort.

Ultimately, she'll probably figure out that the answer isn't perfect Loras, or bad-boy Sandor, but something far less fantasy-based.

I agree with you, I guess my main point was that Sandor's purpose in the story is not to be a romantic ideal for Sansa, but to reveal the lies of chivalry to both Sansa and the readers.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I agree with you, I guess my main point was that Sandor's purpose in the story is not to be a romantic ideal for Sansa, but to reveal the lies of chivalry to both Sansa and the readers.

I don't disagree with you. I think he's an interesting character not because "oh, he's scarred inside and out", and is on the road to becoming more compassionate. That would be boring. I like him because he has maintained his hatred of Gregor despite all the potential for more "fluff". Hate is good.

[Dire-Lion]

I don't disagree with you. I think he's an interesting character not because "oh, he's scarred inside and out", and is on the road to becoming more compassionate. That would be boring. I like him because he has maintained his hatred of Gregor despite all the potential for more "fluff". Hate is good.

I think he is an interesting character because he so cynical while still being arguably one of the best people in King's Landing.

[Mladen]

I am always amazed how some people doesn't want to discuss certain character or the books, but open the thread with sole purpose of discussing someone else's opinion... Apparently, that is what you do when you don't have formed opinion of your own...

[Jrogo]

The Hound is one of my sister's favorite characters. She finds him attractive o.O

[LordStoneheart]

umm... Not to be mean... but half his face is burned off. He's certainly not handsome in the traditional sense.

[DogLover]

I think a lot of readers see Sandor Clegane as a potential romantic figure for Sansa because 1) unlike any other male in her life who isn't blood related , Sandor cares for Sansa for herself, not for any kind of claim she can potentially bring him. 2) Sansa returns his affections, and recognizing this recognizes Sansa's agency, which to this point has been stripped from her.

To be more blunt, it's simple, actually. Sandor wants Sansa. Sansa wants Sandor. Sandor wants Sansa for herself. Sansa wants Sandor for himself. That's it.

[DogLover]

umm... Not to be mean... but half his face is burned off. He's certainly not handsome in the traditional sense.

He's fucking hot, dude.

ETA: I don't remember who the poster was, but he/she was spot on when (s)he posted that Sansa was also attracted to Sandor's pure raw masculinity.

[LordStoneheart]

He's fucking hot, dude.

Punny hot, as in fire, or do you really think he is supposed to be attractive?

[DogLover]

Punny hot, as in fire, or do you really think he is supposed to be attractive?

No, he's not traditionally hot, but it makes no matter. Sansa finds him attractive. I edited my post to add that Sansa is attracted to his raw masculinity. She's gotten over the pretty-boy aesthetic.

[Mladen]

To be more blunt, it's simple, actually. Sandor wants Sansa. Sansa wants Sandor. Sandor wants Sansa for herself. Sansa wants Sandor for himself. That's it.

It's not actually that simple. That there is mutual attraction, yes, there is, but it is far from clear distinction what either one of them wants. While there is different type of attraction, platonic for Sandor, and sexual for Sansa, I am not quite sure they know how to handle it yet. It will come with time, but for the time being, I wouldn't feel comfortable of calling their relationship anything neat simple.

[DogLover]

Also, to address the OP who used a deleted clip to represent their relationship in the book, even there Sansa is not terrified of the Hound. She's crying because of her awful dinner she just had with Cersie. And, like in the book, she drops her courtesy armor and is actually real with Sandor: "I don't know any songs. Not any more." Sandor is the one person in King's Landing who she can actually be real with. She's not terrified of him. If she were, she would don the same ice-cold courtesty armor she does for everyone else. But she lets her guard down around him, as he does her, hence the story of how his face was burned.

[DogLover]

It's not actually that simple. That there is mutual attraction, yes, there is, but it is far from clear distinction what either one of them wants. While there is different type of attraction, platonic for Sandor, and sexual for Sansa, I am not quite sure they know how to handle it yet. It will come with time, but for the time being, I wouldn't feel comfortable of calling their relationship anything neat simple.

Sandor's feeling for Sansa are not platonic. It's actually more nebulous the other way around. And coming from someone who has argued that they were "married" during the Battle of the Blackwater, this is a strange assertion. And of course their feelings are complex, as all relationships are. But they do desire each other.