S+B=M: Mel - The Red Star Bleeding / Melony Seastar (part 2 has been added on pg.9)

[Rhaegar's Love]

I was just doing some rereading and there is another character that's described as Albino-ish. I know this was discussed up thread but it hasn't been brought up yet (at least as far as the search was able to tell me lol) and it may or may not be relevent though I thought I'd bring it up.

The character is the Ghost of High Heart. She does have white hair (though this could easily be attributed to old age and not a sign of albinoism), very pale skin and red eyes. It has been speculated that she is either a CotF or descended from one.

While it may be a stretch, the red eyes could tie Mel and the Ghost of High Heart together, in that the "father" (not founder so much as current leader) of the CotF, aka BR, is the actual father to the other red-eyed human, Mel.

Of course there could be another explanation, but it does seem to slightly signify that red-eyed people have ties to BR.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yes exactly - i don't see why that's not possible if s+b=m. My initial interpretation was that Bran was seeing literal dragons in the past, but this has crossed my mind. When Dany's dragons were born there seemed to be a surge in magic, and Quaithe, who came from Asshai, said it was Dany's dragons - so surely they were extinct before. The other mention is in affc

Arya Kiddin' pointed out that, although the character thinks this is BS, all of them are true... yet the Asshai one we cant explain.

Well the quote from Feast would suggest that Bran saw actual dragons stirring in the present. (Which occurs well after Game opens, not sooo long before Dany's dragons hatch.) Which would reduce the likelihood of the vision just being hint for the reader from GRRM. And the hint could be that Illyrio's dragons which came fro Asshai are going to hatch. But the way I've interpreted that quote each time I read it was just part of the overall confusion you get when you get your int'l news from the docks.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

so this makes melisandre like over 100 years old?

I think seeing the 3EC and Bran(the wolf) in her vision is due to the fact that she's next to the Wall. The biggest magical force on the face of the world. Created with help from the Children of the Forest.

The wall was resurrected by Bran the Builder with help from Children of the Forest magic in it.

and BR not knowing he had a daughter? I find that hard to believe since he could enter the minds of animals to "see" her or enter her dreams etc. etc. etc.

I'm not sure ont he timeline here, but the first thing that Bran does is try to reach out to his family, to the heart tree at Winterfell.

The first person he communicates with in a dream is Jon Snow.

so it's safe to assume that ~50 years ago BR did the same thing. Right?

[Lost Melnibonean]

so this makes melisandre like over 100 years old?

I think seeing the 3EC and Bran(the wolf) in her vision is due to the fact that she's next to the Wall. The biggest magical force on the face of the world. Created with help from the Children of the Forest.

The wall was resurrected by Bran the Builder with help from Children of the Forest magic in it.

and BR not knowing he had a daughter? I find that hard to believe since he could enter the minds of animals to "see" her or enter her dreams etc. etc. etc.

I'm not sure ont he timeline here, but the first thing that Bran does is try to reach out to his family, to the heart tree at Winterfell.

The first person he communicates with in a dream is Jon Snow.

so it's safe to assume that ~50 years ago BR did the same thing. Right?

Bran's a sweet boy who misses his daddy. (He only ate the long pig once cause he was really really hungry and he doesn't know about the paste.) He was gping to be a knight. BR is a powerhungry old necromancer who prefers to live in the shadows. Do you suppose Bran knows about UnCat?

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Bran's a sweet boy who misses his daddy. (He only ate the long pig once cause he was really really hungry and he doesn't know about the paste.) He was gping to be a knight. BR is a powerhungry old necromancer who prefers to live in the shadows. Do you suppose Bran knows about UnCat?

Bran knows about the RW. He dreamed about it, but doesn't want to even talk about it to Meera and Jojen(even though Jojen seems to know calling Bran "your grace" instead of lord or prince like his sister)

It's safe to assume that he doesn't know about unCat, since Beric gave Catelyn the kiss Thoros says "I cannot see anything but darkness in the flames"

Meaning he's got no visions since unCat began leading the BwBs. One of their hide outs is underneath a bunch of weirwood stumps but Since unCat doesn't sleep Bran has no way to communicate with her in her dreams.

side note: Melisandre barely sleeps at all and eventually believes she will need no sleep.

I'm going with a most likely no, Bran doesn't know about unCat and vise versa.

[yolkboy]

A request for anyone on reddit.

Someone posted this theory word for word copy and pasted on reddit...

http://4x.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1ph3ib/spoilers_all_the_red_star_bleeding_melony_seastar/

They are answering questions by copy and pasting things ive said in the thread, as if they are me. It's a little creepy and leaves open unpleasant possibilities. I joined up to reddit but dont really know how what i'm doing and dont know how to let people know that guy isn't me. His user tag is casden1. The theory has gone down well so i have no wish for deletion, but what that guys doing is wrong and creepy. If anyone could make some noise about the imposter I would appreciate it, I dont want people thinking casden1 is yolkboy, one day i might like to post there.

ETA - problem solved, the mods took it down.

[Alia of the knife]

A request for anyone on reddit.

Someone posted this theory word for word copy and pasted on reddit...

http://4x.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1ph3ib/spoilers_all_the_red_star_bleeding_melony_seastar/

They are answering questions by copy and pasting things ive said in the thread, as if they are me. It's a little creepy and leaves open unpleasant possibilities. I joined up to reddit but dont really know how what i'm doing and dont know how to let people know that guy isn't me. His user tag is casden1. The theory has gone down well so i have no wish for deletion, but what that guys doing is wrong and creepy. If anyone could make some noise about the imposter I would appreciate it, I dont want people thinking casden1 is yolkboy, one day i might like to post there.

I wrote a quick post and already (probably casden1) has votes it down, im not exactly sure how reddit works :dunno:

Thx.

Hi Yolkboy,

I think that thread is a little dubious, so use with caution.

I noticed when I signed up with "The Boleyn Files," that when I made a post, or asked a question, the very avatar that I use here, also appears there as well, which struck me as a little creepy.

Perhaps technology is that linked, but still, it made me uneasy.

Good luck and take care.

[The Others Take Ya]

A request for anyone on reddit.

Someone posted this theory word for word copy and pasted on reddit...

http://4x.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1ph3ib/spoilers_all_the_red_star_bleeding_melony_seastar/

They are answering questions by copy and pasting things ive said in the thread, as if they are me. It's a little creepy and leaves open unpleasant possibilities. I joined up to reddit but dont really know how what i'm doing and dont know how to let people know that guy isn't me. His user tag is casden1. The theory has gone down well so i have no wish for deletion, but what that guys doing is wrong and creepy. If anyone could make some noise about the imposter I would appreciate it, I dont want people thinking casden1 is yolkboy, one day i might like to post there.

I wrote a quick post and already (probably casden1) has votes it down, im not exactly sure how reddit works :dunno:

Thx.

Replied to an older comment with that has more upvotes on the thread and added the link to this ^^^^ specific post above so hopefully that makes it more visible.

[yolkboy]

Someone messaged me to point out something interesting. This is a lighthearted addition to S+B=M.

I argued in the OP that Mel's powders she holds as important, to turn fire silver, green and blue - might be a nod to the colours of Shiera's necklace.

"Her favorite piece of jewelry was a heavy silver necklace of emeralds and star sapphires, alternating"

about 5 years ago, a company called Dark Sword Miniatures got the exclusive rights to produce a series of 28mm miniatures based off the series. One miniature that they made was our favourite red priestess, Melisandre. Now, the interesting thing is that Martin specifically requested a particular paint scheme for one of the Melisandre models. Guess what colours?

Second one down.

As far as I can tell, he hasn't done any other similar requests, and here's a character who is unambiguously red red red, and Grrm personally asks for different colours to be used.

Take it or leave it ;)

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Take it or leave it ;)

:stunned:

to paraphrase the DSM site: jaw-dropping-- though mine has dropped for a completely different reason!

[Lost Melnibonean]

"The statue outside the shrine of the Weeping Lady of Lys was crying silver tears as the ugly girl walked by." --The Ugly Girl, Dance.

[Rooghar Targaryen]

Very nice theory. I really like the connection between the necklaces. I have a theory of sorts that might add an interesting wrinkle to the S+B=M.

So Shiera is the offspring of King Aegon IV and his ninth and last of his mistresses, Lady Serenei of Lys. And Bloodraven is the offspring of King Aegon IV and his sixth mistress Lady Mylessa Blackwood. I don't know anything about Serenei of Lys but I have an intriguing idea about Mylessa Blackwood.

First off, the Blood of Dragons MUSH has a family tree for both House Stark and House Blackwood. The family trees were invented for the game, but as of July the Stark Family tree had been updated and there is a chance that it is fairly accurate now. Ran said: "What this entails is that certain characters and certain elements of the games history have been changed to be more in line with new and future canon information." So in my theory I am taking the Stark family tree to be accurate and the Blackwood family tree to be slightly inaccurate.

House Stark MUSH Family Tree: http://www.westeros....ry/House_Stark/

House Blackwood MUSH Family Tree: http://www.westeros....House_Blackwood

Cregan Stark's 2nd marriage was to Lady Alysanne of House Blackwood

----They had a daughter Marian (Stark) [b. 140 AC]

Marian (Stark) married Seth Blackwood [b. 138 AC] (Heir to Raventree Hall)

----(k so this is where it differs from the MUSH Blackwood tree) (In the MUSH family tree, Melissa is the much younger sister of Seth by 20 years, 12 year separation between births)

----Marian and Seth have a daughter Mylissa Blackwood [b. 158 AC] (Marian would be around 18 years old for her first child, Seth would be 20, not a stretch at all)

Mylissa Blackwood was the Sixth Mistress of Aegon IV Targaryen, King of Westeros

----They had a bastard son, Brynden Rivers [b. 175 AC http://www.westeros..../SSM/Entry/1468]

Brynden Rivers, Bloodraven, would be the Great Grandson of Cregan Stark! Stark Blood and Targaryen Blood!

[yolkboy]

I just saw a piece by Ran, in which he lists the striking similarities between Shiera and Mel. He discuses the possibility of them being the same person, but gets stuck at the fact Mel is "tall" and Shiera wasn't. It's interesting how Ran goes over the same differences highlighted in the OP. I had been similarly stuck with Shiera equaling Mel for some time before I realised Mel had the white skin of Bloodraven. Aside from this, there's some interesting observations about Mel, some of which has been covered here with help from y'all. The full article's here. Ran says Mel's mystery means we are in for something big in the next book. Hopefully we know (crosses fingers).

Some have even suggested, in the name of wild speculation, that perhaps she’s Shiera Seastar, a bastard daughter of Aegon the Unworthy who was considered the most beautiful woman in Westeros… and who happened to be lover to Brynden Rivers, also known as Bloodraven, also known as three-eyed crow and the last greenseer. It’s true that there’s a certain similarity to how Martin describes them: trim waists, buxom, heart-shaped faces, unusual eyes, an apparent interest in dark arts… Of course, Shiera Seastar would be over a hundred years old by now, if she lived, and Melisandre doesn’t look anything like that. But… Melisandre is over a hundred years old, at least.

Some magic art has kept her alive, and youthful in appearance as well. It doesn’t rule her out as Shiera, does it?

But Melisandre is tall, and Martin doesn’t say Shiera’s tall. Melisandre wears a golden torc with a ruby in it, whereas we’re told that Shiera considered gold vulgar. Still, it’s an interesting idea, however crazed. One hopes that future Dunk & Egg stories might shed more light on what becomes of Shiera Seastar, given that we know Bloodraven’s history into the present reasonably well.

Melisandre of Asshai, an international woman of mystery, a beautiful conjurer who knows the art of making glamors, who has an enigmatic past and a zealous belief in her purpose. These details are a recipe for something big, down the road. It’ll be interesting to see what The Winds of Winter brings…

[Alia of the knife]

Since history repeating itself, or unfinished business seems to be a theme of Martins, I too had thought Mel was Sheira Seastar in glamour, with all the players taking up their old positions.

BR presence seemingly working on the part of Jon would suggest again BR "fighting" for the true Targaryen heir against a potential challenger, "Aegon," or fAegaon," a Blackfyre pretending to be Rhaegars dragon, and a dragon he still is, though not Rhaegars.

[EstEst]

Someone messaged me to point out something interesting. This is a lighthearted addition to S+B=M.

I argued in the OP that Mel's powders she holds as important, to turn fire silver, green and blue - might be a nod to the colours of Shiera's necklace.

"Her favorite piece of jewelry was a heavy silver necklace of emeralds and star sapphires, alternating"

about 5 years ago, a company called Dark Sword Miniatures got the exclusive rights to produce a series of 28mm miniatures based off the series. One miniature that they made was our favourite red priestess, Melisandre. Now, the interesting thing is that Martin specifically requested a particular paint scheme for one of the Melisandre models. Guess what colours?

Second one down.

As far as I can tell, he hasn't done any other similar requests, and here's a character who is unambiguously red red red, and Grrm personally asks for different colours to be used.

Take it or leave it ;)

Looks like the Ice Queen... or just a frozen woman. Creepy. Ice flames?.. I remember theories about Melisandre ending up serving the Others (or being The Great Other?). :eek:

[Myk Lonmouth]

Whoa that's pretty cool. And very intersesting.

[Claire Stark]

Don't know if anyone finds this interesting but I've been doing my research and found something that some of you might like to add to your Mel theories. First of all, "andre" means "other" in Danish. And secondly, Melony (the name she had as a slave girl) means "black, dark." Could just be coincidental but there could be more to it as well, you never know with GRRM.

[Mord-Sith]

This thread is amazingly good! I love the theories, they are really convincing.

[SeanF]

I don't think Melisandre can be Shiera, given her recollection of being Melony the slave. That doesn't rule her out being Shiera's daughter, as the O/P argues.

WRT the miniature, I picture Melisandre as dressing more sombrely, like the the woman in the Scottish Widows adverts. Although her beauty is obvious, I don't think she shows so much cleavage.

[J. Stargaryen]

Yolkboy, you mentioned the Others' eye-color in my Emeralds thread – in relation to the three-forks-of-the-Trident part – but it just occurred to me now that Bloodraven and Shiera happen to have three eye colors: red and blue + green.

I don't know if it directly ties in to any of the analysis in that thread, but it probably reinforces the theme of those three colors being special in the series. Maybe even in a magical way.