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The Nature of Magic and the Gods


MadMikes

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I did generally mean in the actual world rather than character interpretations,

I know you did but not everyone seems to understands the difference or your OP. I agree that character interpretations are important but I'm curious. What insights did Melisandre's chapter give you about magic and gods in the story?

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I know you did but not everyone seems to understands the difference or your OP. I agree that character interpretations are important but I'm curious. What insights did Melisandre's chapter give you about magic and gods in the story?

Maybe I phrased that wrong. But Melisandre's chapter was one of the first chapters that really gave us an insight into someone who appears to be, at least in some way, linked to her God. We learn that her power is mostly tricks, with some real magic behind it, but the latter is growing as of late. Its almost like she didn't really believe in R'hllor herself at first, but now does because she has seen what his power, or what she perceives as his power, can accomplish.

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The Seven haven't shown any magic in the series, have they? They seem to have their following based on just the knowledge that they "exist" and, most likely, missionaries and believers who spread the word.

You don't understand the point I was trying to make, so I'll try to be more clear: imagine the Seven are real. Like, 100% real, they exist and are responsible for everything the Faith says they are responsible. This means that every single child born is Mother's work, every single death is Stranger's doing, every single victory in a fight is Warrior's doing etc. If they exist, they have enormous loads of magic. If they don't, there's no point in discussing what power they have.

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You don't understand the point I was trying to make, so I'll try to be more clear: imagine the Seven are real. Like, 100% real, they exist and are responsible for everything the Faith says they are responsible. This means that every single child born is Mother's work, every single death is Stranger's doing, every single victory in a fight is Warrior's doing etc. If they exist, they have enormous loads of magic. If they don't, there's no point in discussing what power they have.

But if R'hllor exists, then life is his work, as is light. Or at least so we are told. To say that the seven govern those things is conjecture though. It seems to cliche' that those Gods could exist. Gods that specifically represent each of the virtues necessary for a powerful and dominant civilisation? I think the Seven are just a means of population control, with little magical backing. The one God of the seven who I think might still exist in some form is The Stranger, as one of the faces of the Many Faced God.

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I've always been fascinated by the Magic that GRRM puts in the stories and by extension, the religions. I've been thinking about which, if any, of the religions have some real magical basis. Obviously the Faith of the Red God has shown some significant ability, but then the Old Gods seem to have some power also, as does the Many Faced God.

I wanted to know what others think as to the natures of the Gods in Asoiaf, and their connection to magic.

It seems to me they represent natural forces in the world, which vary in strength. At the time of the books, it seems like the forces of Ice and Fire are growing strong again, but how do we think that relates to the other magical powers, which also appear to be growing?

The Warlocks are more powerful as of late, Wildfire spells are more efficient, Melisandre's powers have grown and various other magical things seem to be happening. Many think that the return of Dragons coincide with the return of magic, but is it a causal factor, or are the dragons just another aspect of magics return?

I agree. I think the Dragons are a sign that magic has returned. Meaning Dragons could only be hatched with the use of magic. Instead of the theory that because of dragons there is magic. What came first the chicken or an egg? an egg. What came first dragons or magic? Magic. However, there's no reason to believe that dragons on their own aren't magical amplifiers in some way.

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You don't understand the point I was trying to make, so I'll try to be more clear: imagine the Seven are real. Like, 100% real, they exist and are responsible for everything the Faith says they are responsible. This means that every single child born is Mother's work, every single death is Stranger's doing, every single victory in a fight is Warrior's doing etc. If they exist, they have enormous loads of magic. If they don't, there's no point in discussing what power they have.

I think I get what you mean and you're right, according to those who believe in the Seven, they are responsible for babies being born and people dying. But for the reader, we haven't seen any miracle or magic conjured up on the part of the Seven but we have for the other faiths. That's what the OP is trying to discuss - the things the reader has observed.

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