Breaking Bad's Final Season: Look upon my works ye mighty and despair

[Morpheus]

Let's face it, Hank's handling of the case was stupid, not to mention largely illegal. Going after a suspect in the desert without any backup, or anyone even knowing you are out there is dumb.

[Ser Hippie]

Walt may have tried to save Hank in that very moment, but his pride, refusal to admit his own culpability in his own misery and subsequent turn to crime were what led to Hank being in that position in the first place. Now the chickens are coming home to roost in a very real way and his family - the thing he deluded himself into thinking he did this all for - has been lost to him.

[Kalbear]

How is it not Walt's direct fault? He hired a set of killers in exchange for cooking meth so that they would kill off his partner. Except his partner went to the DEA, and the DEA got put into the crossfire. He specifically called them to that location so that they could kill Jesse. You don't get to say 'oops' when it turns out that his target actually went with the law. "Oh, sorry, I didnt' mean to kill those cops, just that guy that the cops were protecting. And the killers I hired weren't obeying my requests to not kill the cops! I'm completely free and clear".

[Mad Queen]

I was already getting worried that nothing major had happened yet since Hank found out about Walt. Honestly, I've always loved Hank, but I was almost hoping for him to die in this episode, because it would be the beginning that led to the grand finale. And surely it was. I wasn't expecting that Walt would be so moved by Hank's death, that was nice to see, and also that Walt was willing to give all his money to save Hank's life. I'm finding myself almost liking Walt after the last few episodes. How disturbing.

I was trembling like a leaf by the time Walt and Skyler were rolling on the floor, holding a knife. That was the worst scene for me, I thought one of them was going to get killed accidentally, Skyler or Walt Jr. Not yet, fortunately, but I'm sure there will be more tragedies in the future.

I don't think what Walt did to Jesse is the worst thing Walt has ever done. No way, Jesse is a drug dealer and a murderer who turned on Walt. It wasn't much different from killing Mike. It was almost fair, actually. Brock, on the other hand, was innocent and so was Jane. But if that wasn't the worst thing Walt has done, was it kidnapping Holly? I doesn't feel like it either, because he gave her back in the end. I can't imagine what it could be if it's something he's yet to do.

[DaveSumm]

I can't bring myself to pin the death of Hank on Walt. He did what he could to save Hank. I think Hank's death is on Jesse.

I'm gonna go crazy left field and pin it on the guy who shot him. The guy who was told not to turn up, then turned up, then shot Hank. Yea.

[Horza]

Yeah, Walt couldn't have known that getting into business with the Aryan Brotherhood would end in more violence than he bargained for.

[Wise Fool]

On one hand, Walt telling Jesse about Jane seemed really, really, really cold, and cruel.

On the other hand, Jesse's been blaming himself for Jane this whole time. Now that he knows it was Walt, he doesn't have to hate himself for it. It's kind of like when Walt made the phone call to Sky. On one hand, both actions seemed really evil - on the other hand, they both gave a sort of freedom to the messaged. Jesse's free to view himself as he truthfully is - not culpable for Jane's death or for not saving Jane - and Sky is free to be viewed as not an accomplice in the eyes of the law.

[Independent George]

I'm gonna go crazy left field and pin it on the guy who shot him. The guy who was told not to turn up, then turned up, then shot Hank. Yea.

Yeah, who could have forseen that hiring a known murderer to kill someone might result in him killing someone besides the target. Or that said murderer might show up anyway when you give your exact coordinates, and no explanation as to why you aborted the hit.

I'm betting a simple, "It's the cops; get out of town and destroy your phone" would have ended it right then and there.

On the other hand, Jesse's been blaming himself for Jane this whole time. Now that he knows it was Walt, he doesn't have to hate himself for it. It's kind of like when Walt made the phone call to Sky. On one hand, both actions seemed really evil - on the other hand, they both gave a sort of freedom to the messaged. Jesse's free to view himself as he truthfully is - not culpable for Jane's death or for not saving Jane - and Sky is free to be viewed as not an accomplice in the eyes of the law.

See, I do think Jesse bears partial responsibility for Jane's death. Yes, she's responsible for the relapse, but he's also the one who brought her down with him. If I had to put a number on it, I'd split it 50% Jane, 25% Jesse and 25% Walter.

[Bronn Stone]

Whatever small amount of hope I had for Walt disappeared when he took Holly away from Skylar. Maybe that's just a sympathy thing of being a parent, but there's very little that would be more devastating to me than that. In this episode he showed every single person he ever cared about what a monster he's truly become in possibly the worst possible way he could. He got Hank killed, Jesse turned in to torturers, took Skylar's baby, betrayed his son and then attacked his son's mom. It was brutal.

If anyone's rooting for him after that, well, I'm not sure what the line is that he needs to cross.

He attempted to give up his freedom in order to NOT have Hank killed. In fact, that the Nazis came anyway was a totally bogus plot device. Why would hit men keep coming when told that the paid job is off. Only because the plot demanded it. Gilligan and his castaways made that happen, because it fit their vision, not because it made any sense.

He gave up his money in a futile effort to save Hank. It was a long-shot, long enough to be characterized as a no-shot But it was the only chance Hank had at that point.

Jesse declared war. Walt fought that war better. Jesse lost.

Skylar attacked Walt. Remember how once Skylar was disarmed, Walt finished her off? Me neither. Because he didn't. He fought long enough to disable her then got away.

Holly had two lives to look forward to. One involved eleven million dollars and a quiet life someplace far away and bland. The other involved abject poverty, social services while her mom did her time - yes Skylar still does time for this (or her crazy psycho Aunt - whose precarious mental state will likely only deteriorate further until she too shoplifts or worse her way to jail). Walt chose the much better path. Even if Holly talked him out of it (impressively for a child with a one-word vocabulary). Then he let her take the path she chose (shades of Lone Wolf and Cub or Oberyn Martell).

TEAM WALT!

[mankytoes]

Whatever small amount of hope I had for Walt disappeared when he took Holly away from Skylar. Maybe that's just a sympathy thing of being a parent, but there's very little that would be more devastating to me than that. In this episode he showed every single person he ever cared about what a monster he's truly become in possibly the worst possible way he could. He got Hank killed, Jesse turned in to torturers, took Skylar's baby, betrayed his son and then attacked his son's mom. It was brutal.

If anyone's rooting for him after that, well, I'm not sure what the line is that he needs to cross.

It seems crazy to me that taking HIS daughter was the line for you. I agree it was wrong, but she's his as much as Skyler's, nothing compared to, say, ordering ten people dead.

I turned on Walt as soon as he ordered Jesse kill Gale, so he's been long gone for me. Gale was such a civilian, as much as someone in the drug trade can be, had never remotely harmed or even disrespected Walt, AND he knew it would massively fuck up his relationship with Jesse too.

[Horza]

We have the show to dramatise Walter White's insane capability to rationalise his murderous ego and toxic pride, there's no need for fanfic.

[Wise Fool]

See, I do think Jesse bears partial responsibility for Jane's death. Yes, she's responsible for the relapse, but he's also the one who brought her down with him. If I had to put a number on it, I'd split it 50% Jane, 25% Jesse and 25% Walter.

Neither Jane nor Jesse are to blame. The only reason she died was because 1) Walt came in and disturbed her, turning her onto her back (which she herself took care to avoid), causing her to choke on her own vomit and 2) Walt, seeing this, consciously avoided taking any action to help her at all. Had Walt not come in, she would be alive. The fact that she was using again, or that Jesse helped her relapse, is irrelevant given these two factors. Relapse doesn't mean choking to death on your own vomit - not if you're Jane, who's smart enough to lie on her side so that vomit won't cause asphyxiation.

[Jabronius Maximus]

The episode has a perfect score on IMDB

http://www.imdb.com/.../?ref_=tt_ep_pr

It's probably not going to last, but still, that's impressive.

Well Face Off was a 9.8 shortly after it aired, and it hasn't changed in 2 years. Same goes for the ratings of most of the episodes from last year. So ozymandias will probably stay at 9.9-10, and deservedly so.

This episode was truly phenomenal, and the best hour of television I've ever experienced. 'Whitecaps' from Sopranos is a distant second for me.

[Independent George]

Neither Jane nor Jesse are to blame. The only reason she died was because 1) Walt came in and disturbed her, turning her onto her back (which she herself took care to avoid), causing her to choke on her own vomit and 2) Walt, seeing this, consciously avoided taking any action to help her at all. Had Walt not come in, she would be alive. The fact that she was using again, or that Jesse helped her relapse, is irrelevant given these two factors. Relapse doesn't mean choking to death on your own vomit - not if you're Jane, who's smart enough to lie on her side so that vomit won't cause asphyxiation.

So Jane's fool-proof method of avoiding death was to assume she wouldn't turn in her sleep? Or that Jesse wouldn't?

Walt could have saved her, but didn't. He bears responsibility for that. But the entire reason Jane was in danger in the first place because she started using again. Most of that is on her, but some of it is on Jesse, too.

[deleted01]

I can't help liking Walt. I've read through this thread and chuckled at a few comments, as I'm definitely rooting for Walt and I cannot, in all honesty, justify why.

Cranston is spectacular, and as much as I've disliked Skylar for pretty much the entire show, Gunn does a truly fantastic job. The scene where Walt takes Holly and Skylar runs down the road after them - fantastic.

This episode was amazing, with so many great scenes and the acting was superb, imho. I'm a little peeved that Gomez was killed off-screen, as I thought he deserved a better exit, but the shoot-out was great. I was anticipating Hank's death, and yet it still came as a shock when Jack pulled the trigger.

As for Marie, I can't say I've ever really liked her. I too thought she was lording it over Skylar, barging in and making her demands as usual. It's funny how, since Hank was killed and Walt got away, it was actually Marie who orchestrated the downfall of Walt, and the irreparable breakdown of the White family.

I have no idea where this is going, and I don't really want to speculate, as I'll no doubt be wrong. I can only hope that Jesse survives and gets the hell away, and that Walt manages to redeem himself fully. The producers may say that Walt is an evil bastard, but it's not uncommon for people to love such a complex character such as him, evil bastard or no.

[deleted01]

Neither Jane nor Jesse are to blame. The only reason she died was because 1) Walt came in and disturbed her, turning her onto her back (which she herself took care to avoid), causing her to choke on her own vomit and 2) Walt, seeing this, consciously avoided taking any action to help her at all. Had Walt not come in, she would be alive. The fact that she was using again, or that Jesse helped her relapse, is irrelevant given these two factors. Relapse doesn't mean choking to death on your own vomit - not if you're Jane, who's smart enough to lie on her side so that vomit won't cause asphyxiation.

I'd say Jane was responsible for her own death because she took the damn drugs? Of course Walt could - and arguably should - have saved her, but if she hadn't been shooting heroin, she wouldn't have been in that position. I'm aware that drug addiction is a real problem, but Walt can't be blamed for everything, and ultimately she bears the responsibility for her own actions.

[Bridgeburners]

Okay, I'm just going to start by saying that I really felt for Walt during that phone call. That's right, I'm not just going to blindly jump in the Walt-hating pissing contest that's going on here. I trust people won't assume that I'm a child-poisoning girl-letting-die witness killing maniac, or some empathy-free psychopath who always roots for the bad guys.

Walter knows he's a monster. He had to turn the dashboard mirror away. But that phone call was specifically to illustrate the monster that he has not become. After all he did, he was never the guy to tell his wife to keep her bitch mouth shut or he'll make her suffer the consequences. Granted, he did kidnap the baby (which I don't agree with - I feel like I have to say that so the forum doesn't jump on me, though it's silly that I have to), but at that point he was so disillusioned with the fact that he lost his family that he felt like he had to salvage what he could from it.

I really felt Walter's pain when he made that call. He did it knowing he was damning himself; knowing he had to because of all that he did. It was especially hard for him to say that stuff about Hank crossing him. This is a guy who knows that he lost himself in his greed, and knows exactly what kind of a monster he is, and you really have to give him credit for that. Not a lot of bad guys can say that about themselves. And I feel like you really have to feel for the guy when you see him so broken up at the end, having accepted all this.

Granted, I couldn't say any of this before this last episode. Before, I just considered him a monster blinded by what he has become, and completely not self-aware. But seeing his family turn on him like that gave him time to reflect and come to that awareness.

[DaveSumm]

Yeah, who could have forseen that hiring a known murderer to kill someone might result in him killing someone besides the target. Or that said murderer might show up anyway when you give your exact coordinates, and no explanation as to why you aborted the hit.

Well obviously no-one's blameless in all of this, but if it has to be 'on' somebody I'd start with the guy who pulled the trigger. It's not like he's some poor schmuck who got manipulated by the 'real' bad guys, he showed up and mowed the absolute sh*t out of two people. He's a fully fledged bad guy, so he's on my list of people upon whom Hank's death can be 'pinned', and in this instance he tops that list.

[DaveSumm]

On one hand, Walt telling Jesse about Jane seemed really, really, really cold, and cruel.

On the other hand, Jesse's been blaming himself for Jane this whole time. Now that he knows it was Walt, he doesn't have to hate himself for it. It's kind of like when Walt made the phone call to Sky. On one hand, both actions seemed really evil - on the other hand, they both gave a sort of freedom to the messaged. Jesse's free to view himself as he truthfully is - not culpable for Jane's death or for not saving Jane - and Sky is free to be viewed as not an accomplice in the eyes of the law.

I might agree, had Walt not handed him a death sentence moments before by pointing him out.

[Independent George]

Well obviously no-one's blameless in all of this, but if it has to be 'on' somebody I'd start with the guy who pulled the trigger. It's not like he's some poor schmuck who got manipulated by the 'real' bad guys, he showed up and mowed the absolute sh*t out of two people. He's a fully fledged bad guy, so he's on my list of people upon whom Hank's death can be 'pinned', and in this instance he tops that list.

And I'd start with the guy who hired the guy who pulled the trigger. It doesn't matter that he tried to call it off; he started the ball rolling, and so he's the most responsible.