Jon accepting his Targaryen background.

[LadyMary]

I also think that Jon will never seek a throne so much as he'll be called on to take it. I just happen to think the throne in question is Robb's, and not the Iron Throne, which I believe will cease to exist as an institution before this is over. About Jon and the Watch: His main goal is to fight the Others and protect as many people as he can. He will remain focused on the Watch for as long as it is the best vehicle for him to do those things. But if he gets the sense that the Watch has lost its way (which I think is likely given what's gone down), then he won't hesitate to either leave it or (my opinion -- Lightbringer alert) reform it so that it does what it was supposed to do. And I think that's the takeaway from the Watch plot and why the whining about "oathbreaking" misses the point: When an institution that is meant to protect people stops doing that, it also stops being worthy of a person's oath.

The significance of Jon's parents will be more about Jon's role in battle against the Others (and maybe Dany?) than about anything as trivial as ascending to the IT. In fact, I'll be surprised if the IT - and KL for that matter - will still be standing by the time Jon finds out who his dad really is.

I agree with both of you.

I think Jon's Targaryen/Stark blood is related to fulfilling the prophesy and saving the living from the darkness. It may also make him a King by blood - or at least a Prince, but that's incidental.

The Iron Throne is the Macguffin a symbol of conquest and even assuming it's still relevant as symbol of power by the end of the war against the Others (which I doubt), I don't believe Jon will have any desire for it even if offered to him. He swore to protect the realm, not conquer it. I think he'll honor his oath to protect the realm from the real threat, whether he's part of the Nights Watch or not.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Completly agree.I believe that one scenario could be Jon becoming a king by popular choice, not because his ambition. Something like an early form of democracy.

IMHO, one of the morals of the series could be that power has to be a burden, not something that must be pursued.

it would baisically be what happened to Robb

[David Selig]

it would baisically be what happened to Robb

15-20 of the highest nobles picking someone for King doesn't really qualify as a popular choice.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

15-20 of the highest nobles picking someone for King doesn't really qualify as a popular choice.

true but it's similar

[Maxpey]

I refuse to believe that Jon will attempt to sit the throne. His story is in the North, and Jon embodies the North(south of the wall) more than any other Stark. I believe that his parentage will give him a sense of peace, and allow him to realize that he was not conceived in disgrace, nor was he just an accidental bastard child. Lord Commander of a re-organized Night's Watch, or being crowned the King in the North would be acceptable paths for Jon.

:agree: I know that some people believe that Jon has Rhaegar's temperament, but to me Jon has shown that he is a Stark through and through. I know this is a somewhat simplistic line of thought, but the Starks belong in the North. :D

Now, for a more rational basis for my opinion, we see that Jon's sense of duty and honor has been shaped by male role models such as Ned, Maester Aemon, Lord Mormont and Quorin Halfhand. I think each one of these men, were they in Jon's situation, would not have accepted the IT because they would have believed that their duties lay elsewhere. Given the influence these men on Jon's development, I believe he will ultimately come to the same conclusion.

[Pikachu101]

Completly agree.I believe that one scenario could be Jon becoming a king by popular choice, not because his ambition. Something like an early form of democracy.

Highly unrealistic scenario, the liege lords have shown where their loyalty lies and it isn't with a bastard who has a shaky, unbelievable parentage.

[Fire Eater]

I see him accepting the crown if he ends up with no choice, not because he wants to

Exactly, like when he became LC of the NW, he didn't volunteer to become LC but was voted in. I think Jon will become king and press his claim when the Wall falls, and he believes it is the only way for him to bring much needed aid to the Wall with Dany and her dragons and army at WF. He inadvertently follows Davos advice of saving the kingdom to gain the throne.

Jon will at first be shocked as well as angry, sad and confused by the truth of his parentage, and may even have a crisis of identity, but he will eventually accept it.

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

Highly unrealistic scenario, the liege lords have shown where their loyalty lies and it isn't with a bastard who has a shaky, unbelievable parentage.

Im not refering to a current situation, but an hipotetical future where Jon would have a major role in the defeat of the White walkers. In that scenario probably the truth about Jon's parentage( if r+l=J is true) would be already revealed and that could be important for some. But, mostly, I don't think in lords but in the ordinary people "choosing" Jon as theirs ruler.

[Pikachu101]

Im not refering to a current situation, but an hipotetical future where Jon would have a major role in the defeat of the White walkers. In that scenario probably the truth about Jon's parentage( if r+l=J is true) would be already revealed and that could be important for some. But, mostly, I don't think in lords but in the ordinary people "choosing" Jon as theirs ruler.

I don't see how defeating the White Walkers suddenly makes you eligible to rule a country you know nothing about :dunno: Hopefully Jon's sensible and intelligent enough to realise this.

How would R+L=J already be revealed? Even if Jon's AA/PTWP that doesn't necessarily mean it proves he's a Targaryen, it just proves he's AA/PTWP.

When did the "ordinary" people decide who sat on the IT? You're completely destroying the very essence of ASOIAF and how the game and its players choose whose king. And they're not going to he choosing some bastard from the NWs.

[Foothill]

Exactly, like when he became LC of the NW, he didn't volunteer to become LC but was voted in. I think Jon will become king and press his claim when the Wall falls, and he believes it is the only way for him to bring much needed aid to the Wall with Dany and her dragons and army at WF. He inadvertently follows Davos advice of saving the kingdom to gain the throne.

Jon will at first be shocked as well as angry, sad and confused by the truth of his parentage, and may even have a crisis of identity, but he will eventually accept it.

This is what I see as well. I dont think Jon will ever get involved in the "game" for his own ambition, but to stop the real threat.

And once he proves himself in battle, the throne will fall into his lap, for lack of a better way to put it.

[Pikachu101]

This is what I see as well. I dont think Jon will ever get involved in the "game" for his own ambition, but to stop the real threat.

How does playing a game he knows nothing about help stop the threat? He'll be wasting time and probably end up getting himself killed, by a furious Targaryen.

And once he proves himself in battle, the throne will fall into his lap, for lack of a better way to put it.

Like I've said before when did proving yourself in battle suddenly make you the ideal ruler? No one can deny Ned and Robert proved didn't prove theirselves as war heroes but they still lost to a woman, a eunuch and a short man of no importance.

Westeros is going to be a mess and the last thing it needs is a king who doesn't know what he's doing. I like to think Jon's sensible, wise and mature enough to let a ruler who knows what he/she's doing to clean up Westeros.

And I don't see why it would "fall into his lap" either. Players decide who sits on the IT, and unless someone's willing to take a suicidal gamble I don't see any of them supporting Jon.

[Foothill]

Westeros is going to be a mess and the last thing it needs is a king who doesn't know what he's doing. I like to think Jon's sensible, wise and mature enough to let a ruler who knows what he/she's doing to clean up Westeros.

If he surrounds himself with the right people, he doesnt have to shoulder everything himself. Aegon pretty much let his sisters rule after he conquered the kingdoms. I think Jon will learn feom what happened to him at the wall (the backstabbing).

[Foothill]

How does playing a game he knows nothing about help stop the threat? He'll be wasting time and probably end up getting himself killed, by a furious Targaryen

Fire Eater has a thread on this I believe. I am on a phone and dont feel like typing something I have explained more that once.

(not trying to sound like an ass, but damn the phone typing sucks lol)

[Pikachu101]

If he surrounds himself with the right people, he doesnt have to shoulder everything himself. Aegon pretty much let his sisters rule after he conquered the kingdoms. I think Jon will learn feom what happened to him at the wall (the backstabbing).

But why would players let him become king when it won't benefit them? Unless of course they want someone they can manipulate and control...

[David Selig]

This is what I see as well. I dont think Jon will ever get involved in the "game" for his own ambition, but to stop the real threat.

And once he proves himself in battle, the throne will fall into his lap, for lack of a better way to put it.

How exactly would the throne fall in his lap? The ambitious and power hungry lords would be so thankful they'd all kindly step aside for Jon to take it?

Im not refering to a current situation, but an hipotetical future where Jon would have a major role in the defeat of the White walkers. In that scenario probably the truth about Jon's parentage( if r+l=J is true) would be already revealed and that could be important for some. But, mostly, I don't think in lords but in the ordinary people "choosing" Jon as theirs ruler.

Nobody cares what the ordinary people want when it comes to politics in Westeros. They have no power. Westeros isn't any kind of a democracy and it won't be unless the series jumps the shark big time.

[Saint Saga]

How exactly would the throne fall in his lap? The ambitious and power hungry lords would be so thankful they'd all kindly step aside for Jon to take it?

Ironically,the power hungry lords will have to deal with millions of flesh hungry zombies.The throne would be useless without someone strong taking it,and organizing the fight for survival.If someone becomes king/queen it will be not by bloodline or claim,but for his/her competence in the resistece and making alliances against the threat.

Nobody cares what the ordinary people want when it comes to politics in Westeros. They have no power. Westeros isn't any kind of a democracy and it won't be unless the series jumps the shark big time.

A comunist rebelion?Lol,so much wildling influence.

[Pikachu101]

Ironically,the power hungry lords will have to deal with millions of flesh hungry zombies.The throne would be useless without someone strong taking it,and organizing the fight for survival.If someone becomes king/queen it will be not by bloodline or claim,but for his/her competence in the resistece and making alliances against the threat.

And what makes Jon best suited to rule a country in chaos? He knows nothing about the country, politics, the people, the regions, he has no power nor does he have influence. Jon's actually a very bad choice for a ruler in the fight against the Others; like I've said a million times being a good battle commander does not mean you can rule a country. Robert, Ned, Robb, Dany etc. are proof of that.

[Saint Saga]

Yes,the problem in the hole series is that the better fighter is not always the better ruler,see Robert Baratheon.For surviving against such a threat,that is not a mere political chaos like Westeros saw hundreds of times,but EXTINCTION OF HUMAN RACE,yes maybe he could be the one.He could be the one who leads the last fight,but not the one who will rule when the menace is destroyed.

And what makes Jon best suited to rule a country in chaos?

And who is suited?The ones that could fit the job are dead:Tywin,Jon Arryn,Eddard (as a ruler,not as regent),etc.

What we have in the other side?An oathbreaker (Jon),a kinslayer (Tyrion),a mad woman (Cersei),a pyscho (Ramsey),an unexperienced and naive queen in relation to politics(Danny).

And.well ........he have Roose and Stannis.An unlikely alliance.

[Pikachu101]

And who is suited?The ones that could fit the job are dead:Tywin,Jon Arryn,Eddard (as a ruler,not as regent),etc.

What we have in the other side?An oathbreaker (Jon),a kinslayer (Tyrion),a mad woman (Cersei),a pyscho (Ramsey),an unexperienced and naive queen in relation to politics(Danny).

Stannis

[Saint Saga]

Stannis is also a kinslayer (remember Renly? ),and for the eyes of the majority of westerosis a herectic.But yes,in experience he is the man,it'a a pitty that nobody likes him.