Jon accepting his Targaryen background.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I actually agree, that were he to fail, that would be realistic.

But if he doesn't actually make his rightful claim to the throne, that would be the most unrealistic moment in the entire series, even more unrealistic than magic or dragons, because at least those have similarities to technology and dinosaurs, respectively. Every man, finding out he is the one true king, regardless of upbringing would want his throne.

accept like Stannis he will want it for the right reasons. Would he rather stay LC of the NW and maintain his honor, Yes. But he will do his duty as a NWM and unite the realm under his rule for the greater good, sacrificing his honor.

[Ser Knute]

Well yeah, that's kind of the entire point. He's ice and fire simultaneously and has to reconcile the two.

As I've been reading many of the theories of the major (and even minor) plotlines and trying to get a sense of this whole big-picture, I believe to this point that R+L=J is true and that he indeed will be TPTWP. I also agree that despite how Jon wrestles with his learning of his true heritage he'll identify more with the Stark side of it because of Ned's influence and his own personal opinions about the truly honorable nature of the duty of the Watch.

Somewhat off-topic yet related: When Targaryens come into opposition with one another it's referred to as a Dance of Dragons, yet with the Prince Prophecy; His is the song of Ice and Fire. Dance and Song. Interesting. Dance = War : Song = Peace? Wouldn't that qualify as reconciling the two or is that a li'l thin?

I'm also entertaining the idea that either he'll purse the throne only at others' behest not out of some sense of birthright, or he'll ally with Dany as a way to (re)bond the south with the North and the duty/nature of the NW. He's been trying to get the IT to help all throughout, but the sitting rulers seem to hate his House, as 1/2 Targaryen he may see this as a way to secure that alliance. I also think that it'll be a tenuous negotiation or intense sort of meeting as Dany may still harbor a grudge due to the Ned's part in Robert's war. If only they both knew what truly happened if R+L=J is true, it might really change the tenor of their relationship, but I kind of doubt that they will be made to be so lucky by GRRM. However I do see Jon being able to, for his part, strike an amiable deal with Danaerys. She will likely agree to an alliance due to Jon's terms which won't conflict with hers.

That's how I see it, but I also think that still leaves room for none of that to 'end' well.

[David Selig]

I actually agree, that were he to fail, that would be realistic.

But if he doesn't actually make his rightful claim to the throne, that would be the most unrealistic moment in the entire series, even more unrealistic than magic or dragons, because at least those have similarities to technology and dinosaurs, respectively. Every man, finding out he is the one true king, regardless of upbringing would want his throne.

Wanting the throne and actually making a claim are two very different things though.If you see you have only a very small chance to succeed and a very big chance to die if you make a claim, most people won't make the claim.

[MindLikeWarp]

Wanting the throne and actually making a claim are two very different things though.If you see you have only a very small chance to succeed and a very big chance to die if you make a claim, most people won't make the claim.

Many would risk their life to be the supreme ruler. Maybe not Jon, but most, and I think Jon, the man not the boy, would want what is rightfully his, as most men would.

[Fire Eater]

if you subscribe to Fire Eater's Rundown then Dany will conquer it but step down when Jon lays claim after he proves he is legit to her. Once she thinks he is legit most of the other lords will fall into line.

I doubt it will happen exactly as his theory suggest by it will be similar IMO.

I don't think Dany will conquer the IT, that will be Jon's job.

@David Selig

You're right, Dany wouldn't likely believe Jon, especially since she has already dealt with a false pretender posing as Rhaegar's son. I think Jon will arrive with HR and possibly Wylla and meribald to provide testimonies. They will also find something in Lyanna's tomb to support Jon's story. But I think Dany pose a challenge to Jon to prove his heritage that she thinks is impossible: mounting one of her dragons without the dragonhorn. She will say if she was able to mount Drogon without the horn, then Jon should have no problem. Jon's abilities as a warg allows him to accomplish this task. Once he manages to mount one of her dragons, she will have no choice but to accept him as king.

[David Selig]

I don't think Dany will conquer the IT, that will be Jon's job.

@David Selig

You're right, Dany wouldn't likely believe Jon, especially since she has already dealt with a false pretender posing as Rhaegar's son. I think Jon will arrive with HR and possibly Wylla and meribald to provide testimonies. They will also find something in Lyanna's tomb to support Jon's story. But I think Dany pose a challenge to Jon to prove his heritage that she thinks is impossible: mounting one of her dragons without the dragonhorn. She will say if she was able to mount Drogon without the horn, then Jon should have no problem. Jon's abilities as a warg allows him to accomplish this task. Once he manages to mount one of her dragons, she will have no choice but to accept him as king.

I don'tunderstand this. If Dany has already won the throne herself, of course she'd have a choice not to accept Jon no matter if he is a dragon rider or not.

[UVA]

I don't think Dany will conquer the IT, that will be Jon's job.

@David Selig

You're right, Dany wouldn't likely believe Jon, especially since she has already dealt with a false pretender posing as Rhaegar's son. I think Jon will arrive with HR and possibly Wylla and meribald to provide testimonies. They will also find something in Lyanna's tomb to support Jon's story. But I think Dany pose a challenge to Jon to prove his heritage that she thinks is impossible: mounting one of her dragons without the dragonhorn. She will say if she was able to mount Drogon without the horn, then Jon should have no problem. Jon's abilities as a warg allows him to accomplish this task. Once he manages to mount one of her dragons, she will have no choice but to accept him as king.

Without having the benefit of your admirably long list of foreshadowings and predictions, Fire Eater, Jon having to corral Howland, Wylla, Meribald and dig up a corroborating artifact in Lyanna's tomb seems like too much work in order for him to convince Dany of his Targ ancestry. There's got to be an easier way.

[Fire Eater]

I don'tunderstand this. If Dany has already won the throne herself, of course she'd have a choice not to accept Jon no matter if he is a dragon rider or not.

If you paid attention to that post, no offense, you'd find that I said that Dany wouldn't win the IT. Dany would have to accept Jon after that since he accomplished the task, and proved that he does have blood of the dragon and is who he says he is, otherwise she is no better than Robert, and would be seen as a usurper and hypocrite as well as dishonorable since she would be breaking her word regarding the challenge.

Without having the benefit of your admirably long list of foreshadowings and predictions, Fire Eater, Jon having to corral Howland, Wylla, Meribald and dig up a corroborating artifact in Lyanna's tomb seems like too much work in order for him to convince Dany of his Targ ancestry. There's got to be an easier way.

I think HR will at WF with the Northmen fighting Dany. Meribald may be giving religious services to Dany's soldiers since she will be coming through the riverlands, and Meribald may want to give support to men like himself when he went to war. I don't know how Wylla will attach herself to Dany's party.

[C0bR]

Unless Jon decides to commit a suicide (or has an echo of receiving some bigass plot gifts), his heritage should not become a public knowledge.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

If you paid attention to that post, no offense, you'd find that I said that Dany wouldn't win the IT. Dany would have to accept Jon after that since he accomplished the task, and proved that he does have blood of the dragon and is who he says he is, otherwise she is no better than Robert, and would be seen as a usurper and hypocrite as well as dishonorable since she would be breaking her word regarding the challenge.

I think HR will at WF with the Northmen fighting Dany. Meribald may be giving religious services to Dany's soldiers since she will be coming through the riverlands, and Meribald may want to give support to men like himself when he went to war. I don't know how Wylla will attach herself to Dany's party.

Maybe Wylla is with HR. are we sure when she left Starfall? I mean once Edric didn't need a wet nurse anymore they would really have no use for her so she could have gone north to see Jon and wound up in the Neck

[intheswamp]

Assuming Jon's personality isn't greatly changed by recent happenings, I have a hard time seeing him taking the Iron Throne. Even if circumstances make him the heir, I see Jon following the examples of Aemon, who refused the throne, and Eddard, who didn't try to claim it himself. I also can't see Jon trying to claim Winterfell before Bran, Rickon, or even one of his sisters. It seems like a very non-Jon thing to do.

If he doesn't end up as the Night's King or dieing, I think Jon will become King/Lord of the lands beyond the Wall, or what is left of the Wall. Tormund did say they'd make a wildling out of him yet. The Wildings follow power and there is a certain overwhelming power about Jon, even moreso than Dany, in my opinion.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

The Wildings follow power and there is a certain overwhelming power about Jon, even moreso than Dany, in my opinion.

:agree: it is something he shares with his biological father Rhaegar. People just gravitated to Rhaegar and couldn't help but like him. He had an aura about him that got people to fight and believe in him just like Jon and Most of the NW and Wildlings.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

:agree: it is something he shares with his biological father Rhaegar. People just gravitated to Rhaegar and couldn't help but like him. He had an aura about him that got people to fight and believe in him just like Jon and Most of the NW and Wildlings.

I agree that there's a certain ... oomph ... about Jon, especially where the wildlings are concerned. His biggest issue up to this point was getting the power to follow through on what he knew needed to be done. Now that he has has that power, somewhat, he needs to overcome his inferiority complex and close the deal. I think Jon has always been the type of person who ultimately knows what he has to do and has the will to do it, but held back because he believed he didn't have the right. I actually think of Jon and Dany having opposite problems: Dany has the power but not the will, and Jon has the will but not the power. Except now Jon sort of does have the power, and it will be interesting to see what he does with it.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

"I don't want the throne!"

"You're going to take the throne!"

"I will not!"

"YES YOU WILL!!"

[Fire Eater]

:agree: it is something he shares with his biological father Rhaegar. People just gravitated to Rhaegar and couldn't help but like him. He had an aura about him that got people to fight and believe in him just like Jon and Most of the NW and Wildlings.

That aura is demonstrated when Satin, Hareth and Arron and Emrick choose to swear their vows before a heart tree, and Mance said that Tormund liked Jon. He seems to attractive to young women, at least at the Wall with Ygritte, Val and Alys, and maybe even Shireen . . . alright the last one doesn't count.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

That aura is demonstrated when Satin, Hareth and Arron and Emrick choose to swear their vows before a heart tree, and Mance said that Tormund liked Jon. He seems to attractive to young women, at least at the Wall with Ygritte, Val and Alys, and maybe even Shireen . . . alright the last one doesn't count.

i was like :ack: when I read Shireen.

[Arya kiddin']

"I don't want the throne!"

"You're going to take the throne!"

"I will not!"

"YES YOU WILL!!"

You read my mind.

Edit: I hope you're being sarcastic.

[Lyse Stark]

"I don't want the throne!"

"You're going to take the throne!"

"I will not!"

"YES YOU WILL!!"

In my opinion it will go like this;

Jon: I don't want the throne!

Somebody: This is your birthright and your DUTY.

Jon: But I hate politics...

Somebody: You are our last hope!

[James Arryn]

I don't see it as a conflict in opposed natures or philosophies as much as others seem to. If anything Rhaegar was more driven by duty and obligation than Ned, if that's possible.

I think it's more a matter of loyalties.