Moosicus Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Just adding to what Mormont said earlier, but try to keep the quotes to a reasonable length to keep within Fair Use guidellines. If you have to scroll down to view the whole thing, it's probably on the long side Thats gonna make things a bit tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merentha Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 To be fair, a lot of MME's posts's length was because of his comments. Those arent covered by the fair use, are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Does "fair use" actually limit how much you can quote? I thought fair use depended on the use to which the quote is put, like criticism, or mockery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Comments and opinions are fair enough. Satire and criticism is allowed under Fair Use. To tell the truth what we've been doing is perfectly okay, it's just better to err on the side of caution. Also too much Goodkind in one go makes my eyes bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Comments and opinions are fair enough. Satire and criticism is allowed under Fair Use. To tell the truth what we've been doing is perfectly okay, it's just better to err on the side of caution. Also too much Goodkind in one go makes my eyes bleed. Fair enough. I feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Apparently, TG has sold 50 million books. That's nearly twice as many as Robert Jordan. Yet, Tor Books still say that Jordan is their best-selling author and spent $700,000 on marketing Knife of Dreams, whilst only $400,000 on marketing Chainfire. And when you log onto Tor's website, their flagship book is Knife of Dreams. I dunno, those crazy Tor cats, eh? How, and who, does one write to Tor and ask them for the figures? For the actual skinny on sales figures and, if they had to choose, would win in a cage match between the two? Semi- Serious though, would Tor give up actual sales figures on these two and maybe a couple others for comparison...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Maid Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Semi- Serious though, would Tor give up actual sales figures on these two and maybe a couple others for comparison...? They would, probably, provided you can justify why you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I think the authors have to agree to it as well and, oddly, they seem a bit funny about saying how many books they've sold. Guess it's a bit like boasting. People like Erikson and Bakker seem to be saying they don't care as long as it pays the bills and Terry Pratchett seems fainly embarrassed by his preposterous sales levels to the extent where he says he doesn't keep track any more, other than being taken aback when WH Smiths says stuff like "1% of all books sold by Smiths are Terry Pratchett novels" (and that's 1% of all books, not just fiction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 So you're saying someone is making something up then...? Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Actually, no. It is possible that Goodkind has sold 50 million books. Highly unlikely, but possible. The only problem is that all available evidence points to Robert Jordan being Tor's biggest-selling author (he also has a far higher profile), which would mean he'd have sold many millions of copies more, but the last sales figures I heard being floated for Jordan were in the 20 million margin. I'm guessing contacting Tor would resolve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Only if the tell the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Anyone known GRRM's sales figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algiz Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 For the Martin quote, just go here. Nice new thing he's set up for the fans. Haha, I had a look at the page in question and came upon this: http://www.georgerrmartin.com/fans/fans32.html "This one is from Odie, up in the Land o' Cheese. Let's hope the next cop who pulls her over isn't a Terry Goodkind reader." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 ...Terry Pratchett seems fainly embarrassed by his preposterous sales levels to the extent where he says he doesn't keep track any more, other than being taken aback when WH Smiths says stuff like "1% of all books sold by Smiths are Terry Pratchett novels" (and that's 1% of all books, not just fiction). That surprises me. I heard that one of the reasons Robert Rankin dislikes Pratchett so much is that they once were at a dinner together and all Pratchett could talk about was how much money he was making and how rich he was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Maid Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I think the authors have to agree to it as well and, oddly, they seem a bit funny about saying how many books they've sold. Guess it's a bit like boasting. I agree on this one. Some authors are uncomfortable about releasing sales figures, but I think they eventually agree (well, at least the successful ones), as the PR people probably hound them to do so to make the book more marketable. I think Jordan has sold more, not Goodkind (on account that what, Jordan has more books than Goodkind?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Suggestion for next quote: Faith of the fallen, where he shatters the statue and in doing so, causes a rebellion... Okeedokee. The statue bit is a good one and deserves to be todays Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day. Though I fear this one will go on pretty long, I may incur the wrath of the mods, oh well. Despite having no training in the arts, Richard is a master sculpter the likes of which Michaelangelo could only dream of being. The effect of the statue he builds in the enemy capitol of Altur Rang is pretty profound. When Nicci, the evil sorceress first lays eyes on it: Nicci's gaze rose up the legs, the robes, the arms, the bodies of the two people, up to their faces. She felt as if a giant fist squeezed her heart to a stop. This was what was in Richard's eyes, brought into existence in glowing white marble. To see it fully realized was like being struck by lightning. In that instant, her entire life, everything that had ever happened to her, everything she had ever seen, heard, or done, seemed to come together in one flash of emotional violence. Nicci cried out in pain at the beauty of it, and more so at the beauty of what it represented. Her eyes fell on the name carved in the stone base. LIFE Nicci collapsed to the floor in tears, in abject shame, in horror, in revulsion, in sudden blinding comprehension. ...In pure joy. Thats some statue. Later, when Richard's buddies Victor and Ishaq see it: The two figures in the center posed in a state of harmonious balance. The man's body displayed a proud masculinity. Though the woman was clothed, there was no doubt as to her femininity. They both reflected a love of the human form as sunsuous, noble, and pure. The evil all around seemed as if it was recoiling in terror of that noble purity. More than that, though, Richard's statue exised without conflict; the figures showd awareness, rationality, and purpose. This was a manifestation of human power, ability, intent. This was life lived for its own sake. This was mankind standing proudly of his own free will. This was exactly what the single word at the bottom named it: LIFE That it existed was proof of the validity of the concept. this was life as it should be lived--proud, reasoned, and a slave to no other man. This was the rightful exaltation of the individual, the nobility of the human spirit. Everything on the walls all around offered death as its answer. This offered life. Victor and Ishaq were on their knees, weeping. Later, a large crowd gathers to see the statue (and cry their eyes out), Richard is arrested and brought up before the crowd so he can destroy the statue before they kill him. Richard decides to give a little speech first, and for some reason the Head Bad Guy In Charge (Brother Narev) lets him. "You are ruled," Richard said in a voice that rang out over the multitude, "By mean little men." The people gasped as one. To speak against a brother was treason, most likely, and heresy for sure. "My crime?" Richard asked aloud. "I have given you something beautiful to see, daring to hold the conviction that you have a right to see it if you wish. Worse...I have said that your lives are your own to live." A rolling murmur swept out through the multitude. Richard's voice rose in power, demanding in its clarity to be heard sabove the whispering. "Evil is not one large entity, but a collection of countless, small depravities brought up from the muck by petty men. Living under the Order, you have traded the enrichment of vision for a gray fog of mediocrity -- the fertile inspiration of striving and growth, for mindless stagnation and slow decay -- the brave new ground of the attempt, for the timid quagmire of apathy." With gazes riveted and lips still, the crowd listened. Richard gestured out over their heads with his sledgehammer, wielded with the effortless grace of a royal sword. "You have traded freedom not even for a bowl of soup, but wors, for the spoken empty fellings of others who say that you deserve to have a full bowl of soup provided by someone else. "Happiness, joy, accomplishment, achievement...are not finite commodities to be divided up. Is a child's laughter to be divided up and allotted? No! Simply make more laughter!" Laughter, pleased laughter, rippled through the crowd. <Richard laughed, the crowd laughed, all the men laughed> Brother Narev's scowl grew. "We've heard enough of your extremist rambling! Destroy your profane statue. Now." Richard cocked his head. "Oh? The collective assembly of the Order, and of brothers, fears to hear what one insignificant man could say? You fear mere words that much, Brother Narev?" Dark eyes stole a quick glance at the crowd as they leaned forward, eager to hear his answer. "We fear no words. Virtue is on our side, and will prevail. Speak you blasphemy, so all may understand why moral people will side against you." Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen I'm gonna stop there, it goes on for a while, mostly Richard droning on and on about life, freedom, blah blah blah. He then destroys the statue, but before the brothers and their guards can kill him, the crowd surges forward and its a big revolution. This is too long to begin with probably. And I just can't take any more of it this morning. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 "Evil is not one large entity, but a collection of countless, small depravities brought up from the muck by petty men. Buckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuuuuuuuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brys Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Okeedokee. The statue bit is a good one and deserves to be todays Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day. Though I fear this one will go on pretty long, I may incur the wrath of the mods, oh well. Despite having no training in the arts, Richard is a master sculpter the likes of which Michaelangelo could only dream of being. The effect of the statue he builds in the enemy capitol of Altur Rang is pretty profound. When Nicci, the evil sorceress first lays eyes on it: Nicci's gaze rose up the legs, the robes, the arms, the bodies of the two people, up to their faces. She felt as if a giant fist squeezed her heart to a stop. This was what was in Richard's eyes, brought into existence in glowing white marble. Um, brought what into existence? To see it fully realized was like being struck by lightning. I thought it was like a giant fist squeezing her heart to a stop. In that instant, her entire life, everything that had ever happened to her, everything she had ever seen, heard, or done, seemed to come together in one flash of emotional violence. Nicci cried out in pain at the beauty of it, and more so at the beauty of what it represented. Her eyes fell on the name carved in the stone base. LIFE Nicci collapsed to the floor in tears, in abject shame, in horror, in revulsion, in sudden blinding comprehension. ...In pure joy. Seems about right to me. In Goodkind's world, horror, revulsion, shame etc tend to be synonymous with the nobility of the human spirit. Keep up the satire, Goodkind! Thats some statue. Later, when Richard's buddies Victor and Ishaq see it: The two figures in the center posed in a state of harmonious balance. The man's body displayed a proud masculinity. Though the woman was clothed, there was no doubt as to her femininityUh.... they can't usually tell whether someone's male or female when they're clothed? . They both reflected a love of the human form as sunsuous, noble, and pure. The evil all around seemed as if it was recoiling in terror of that noble purity. Beware! Chickens that are not chickens are all around them. More than that, though, Richard's statue exised without conflict; the figures showd awareness, rationality, and purpose. Why should his statue be in conflict, anyway? This was a manifestation of human power, ability, intent. This was life lived for its own sake. This was mankind standing proudly of his own free will. Wow. Wish I'd seen some statues like that. Sadly, all those neoclassical statues of the Nazis don't quite seem to cut it. They're a bit too collectivist. This was exactly what the single word at the bottom named it: LIFE Deja vu, anyone? That it existed was proof of the validity of the concept. I'll have to try out this type of logic more often this was life as it should be lived--proud, reasoned, and a slave to no other man. This was the rightful exaltation of the individual, the nobility of the human spirit. He actually used those words in the novel? Well, at least no one can claim its a fantasy novel anymore. Everything on the walls all around offered death as its answer. This offered life. Victor and Ishaq were on their knees, weeping. What is it with deja vu and this scene? Later, a large crowd gathers to see the statue (and cry their eyes out), Richard is arrested and brought up before the crowd so he can destroy the statue before they kill him. Richard decides to give a little speech first, and for some reason the Head Bad Guy In Charge (Brother Narev) lets him. "You are ruled," Richard said in a voice that rang out over the multitude, "By mean little men." Mean little men. What a great insult. Next time I want to criticise a dictator, I'll just say, "you're ruled by mean little men". The people gasped as one. So did I. What the hell is this imbecile doing up on stage. Where's the real speaker To speak against a brother was treason, most likely, and heresy for sure. Heresy? Ok... "My crime?" Richard asked aloud. "I have given you something beautiful to see, daring to hold the conviction that you have a right to see it if you wish. Worse...I have said that your lives are your own to live." They have some strange laws in those places. It's legal to kick little girls in the teeth, slaughter innocent protesters and generally abuse, rape and kill half the population - but making a statue or expounding objectivist philosophy is illegal. A rolling murmur swept out through the multitude. Richard's voice rose in power, demanding in its clarity to be heard sabove the whispering. He isn't a very good speaker is he? Surely he should be able to be heard above the "whispering" already. "Evil is not one large entity, but a collection of countless, small depravities brought up from the muck by petty men. You know who that reminds me of? Living under the Order, you have traded the enrichment of vision for a gray fog of mediocrity -- the fertile inspiration of striving and growth, for mindless stagnation and slow decay -- the brave new ground of the attempt, for the timid quagmire of apathy." In other words, they haven't been killing enough innocents. With gazes riveted and lips still, the crowd listened. Richard gestured out over their heads with his sledgehammer Why is he wielding a sledgehammer? Just why?, wielded with the effortless grace of a royal sword. "You have traded freedom not even for a bowl of soup, but wors, for the spoken empty fellings of others who say that you deserve to have a full bowl of soup provided by someone else. "Happiness, joy, accomplishment, achievement...are not finite commodities to be divided up. Is a child's laughter to be divided up and allotted? No! Simply make more laughter!" What the hell? I thought he was going on about how they were all collectivist scum a minute ago. Now he wants them to laugh, for no reason at all? Laughter, pleased laughter, rippled through the crowd. <Richard laughed, the crowd laughed, all the men laughed> Brother Narev's scowl grew. "We've heard enough of your extremist rambling! Destroy your profane statue. Now." Statues are dangerous objects you know. Slegehammers aren't, but statues are. Though I have to agree with this guy on "enough of your extremist rambling". Richard cocked his head. "Oh? The collective assembly of the Order, and of brothers, fears to hear what one insignificant man could say? You fear mere words that much, Brother Narev?" Um... I thought he was all for the individual. But now its a mere insignificant man, and the community and majority is most important? I'll never understand objectivism. Dark eyes stole a quick glance at the crowd as they leaned forward, eager to hear his answer. "We fear no words. Virtue is on our side, and will prevail. Speak you blasphemy, so all may understand why moral people will side against you." Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen I'm gonna stop there, it goes on for a while, mostly Richard droning on and on about life, freedom, blah blah blah. He then destroys the statue, but before the brothers and their guards can kill him, the crowd surges forward and its a big revolution. This is too long to begin with probably. And I just can't take any more of it this morning. Enjoy. Goodkind is a comic genius. I just have to add some commentary to this. Goodkind once again uses his first rule beyond all plausibility. The people in this scene are some of the most stupid I've seen in any fiction. Ever. They even manage to make Richard look intelligent. And that is a remarkable feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Girl Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Though the woman was clothed, there was no doubt as to her femininity. Yeah, people always think I'm a man if I've got a shirt on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Yeah, people always think I'm a man if I've got a shirt on. I think it was Goodkinds way of saying she had really big tits. I wouldn't mind a TG speech about the nobility of tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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