HBO's "Westworld" [Spoilers!]

[DireWolfSpirit]

Im not clear on whether we need to be using spoilers in this thread or not?

Anyways episode 2 has now aired in the U.S. on both HBOGO and HBO, but I thought I read an earlier poster comment that the UK episodes are running a week later than the U.S.?

Only had a short comment but in the spirit of erring on the side of caution (till someone clarifies otherwise) I'll just make that comment in a spoiler.

Spoiler

I'm surprized noone mentioned Delores swatting the fly on her face after the last time she awoke? Thats definately a significant change for a host as it was pointedely noted earlier how "Hosts wont even harm a fly" and weve had all these scenes with the flies crawling across hosts faces.....Its like more AI creep so to speak.

 

[PetyrPunkinhead]

@DireWolfSpiritGood point about the spoiler tags. I'm guessing b/c this wasn't labeled a "spoiler thread" in the title. Yeah, you're right about Dolores and that end of S1E2 being significant. 

[Jaxom 1974]

Spoilers were mainly, at least the last couple days, because some watched episode 2 earlier than tonight.

[Lordsteve666]

Watched episode 1 and it had me hooked straight away. 

Ive never seen the film but I liked the way they refered to it as a past glitch in the system, so this series Is more a continuation of the same story rather than a full on reboot. 

I think with the whole reset thing do we actually have any idea of the timescale involved? I mean the gang attack happpens a week early and implies a possible play-time of at least a couple of weeks. So even though Delores resets at the start of the day several times how do we know she doesn't just get "held"for a few days until it's reset time? There doesn't seem to be any way of judging how much time passes between resets. Or, does Delores just run the same task every day despite the long game running for over a week? So essentially if no guest interacts with her she'll just wake up each day and go painting each time. 

The MiB is interesting though. I thought first of all he's just a guest like he says, but then what the hell is he doing. Alternatively is he a host who has become self aware and is now seeking his maker? Has he been able to reprogram himself so he's immune to damage from guest and host alike? Only really odd but though is why would there be a map hidden inside the skull of a host? That's a weird hiding place for something important. Why even put a map there at all, that's like tattooing your credit card pin number to your ass?!? It's no use for the host but anyone finding it could misuse it. I did think that maybe it's not a geographical map as such, but more like a system map, showing how that host is programmed. Maybe the MiB is using it to work out how to change himself or other hosts. 

[C.T. Phipps]

5 hours ago, Lordsteve666 said:

 

I think with the whole reset thing do we actually have any idea of the timescale involved? I mean the gang attack happpens a week early and implies a possible play-time of at least a couple of weeks. So even though Delores resets at the start of the day several times how do we know she doesn't just get "held"for a few days until it's reset time? There doesn't seem to be any way of judging how much time passes between resets. Or, does Delores just run the same task every day despite the long game running for over a week? So essentially if no guest interacts with her she'll just wake up each day and go painting each time. 

The MiB is interesting though. I thought first of all he's just a guest like he says, but then what t

The website says that the "Westworld Experience" is two weeks long before it resets. People can purchase shorter stays. They've done a shocking number of resets this week, though, because of maintenance.

As for the Man in Black, it's interesting that in addition to being a psychopath, my biggest thought about him is he's a cheater.

He plays with God Mode on all the time so...what's the point?

 

[KiDisaster]

44 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

He plays with God Mode on all the time so...what's the point?

I had exactly this same thought watching episode 2  

Not being able to lose is boring.

[Lordsteve666]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

He plays with God Mode on all the time so...what's the point?

 

My thoughts on him are either he's a host who's gone wonky (my preferred idea) and is trying to either escape the park or take power or something.

Or alternatively he's a guest who's got some ulterior motive for being there (disgruntled past employee, industrial espionage, resistance against the use of machines for playthings?, who knows..).
But with this idea he'd need to pay to go there repeatedly because they aren't just gonna let him in for free are they?, or he'd need to get in once and go "off grid" which would result in them looking for him you'd think.I mean they must check the guests in and out i'd have thought, so nobody can go freeloading in there and outstay what they paid for. A missing guest would be a big issue.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

He plays with God Mode on all the time so...what's the point?

Isn't that the case with all the guests?

[GeorgeIAF]

I'm pretty sure that the young kid Ford met is his younger self, their fathers said the same thing, they were dressed almost the same. I also think that the new narrative Ford is working on is connected with the maze the MiB is searching for (the little girl told him about following the snake's trail or smth like that and we saw Ford controlling that snake). I also think that Ford might be introducing religion to hosts and the meaning of God. 

The show is very interesting, the MiB is surely a Gold package customer (the most expensive), that's why he "does whatever he wants". If i remember well enough, in the first episode the Gold package is described as having access to a much wider array of park features and so on. When he said he was born in the park i think he meant that he discovered his real self there.

Also, it seems that someone is talking to Dolores and is giving her tips and hints ... I think the gun she found is real and is only a matter of time before a host kills a guest, or we will even see guest on guest violence in the coming episodes.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, GeorgeIAF said:

I'm pretty sure that the young kid Ford met is his younger self, their fathers said the same thing, they were dressed almost the same.

Same here.

I'll raise the speculation and add that the young man we saw entering Westworld this episode is the MiB. All the scenes we saw him in were set in the past and that's what he's getting Delores to remember. The reason why is that before entering he was told that Westworld is where you discover who you truly are and MiB tells us in this episode that he was born here. Then there's the scene at the end where he meets Delores and I think we were seeing the origin of his obsession with her. Plus I think they are screwing with us in the sense the hosts don't age but the humans obviously do and MiB claimed he'd been coming for 30 years (or a long time anyhow). Just enough for the young man to wind up looking like Ed Harris. The only odd thing is that the young man's friend dresses and is as violent as MiB. Still I felt confident enough in this being the case that I was kind of surprised it wasn't the end of episode "twist"

The episode itself was excellent. They really ratcheted up the horror aspect regarding the nightmares, callous killing and the entire scene with Thandie Newton's character waking up. The most disturbing thing after seeing those scenes was the line about "how fucked up they'd be if they could remember the things the players were doing to them".

I'm still enjoying the greek pantheon vibe I'm getting from the squabbling and soap opera of the human management side. Still not entirely sure they are all human. I think there was a lot of weight to the guest the young man encountered when answering "are you real" with "if you can't tell, does it even matter". Something that might also play into the young man's obsession with Delores if he becomes the MiB.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

The boy is definitely Dr. Ford. 

[Corvinus85]

You guys are forgetting that in the first episode Ford was having a drink with an older model that wasn't even moving realistically. That model could have been a 30 year old model. Considering that the robots that the two young men are interacting with are completely realistic, even those outside of the park, I'm not buying the theory that we're seeing some of these major characters, like MiB, in the past.

[Mark Antony]

Not a fan of the William = MIB theory. I think they are both in the same timeframe. 

If his scenes were 30 year old flashbacks I don't think the hosts would be exactly the same, probably more like the Buffalo Bill bot from episode one. 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

1 minute ago, Mark Antony said:

Not a fan of the William = MIB theory. I think they are both in the same timeframe. 

If his scenes were 30 year old flashbacks I don't think the hosts would be exactly the same, probably more like the Buffalo Bill bot from episode one. 

I think they look weird when they get decommissioned.  

[Theda Baratheon]

only one ep has aired in UK thus far so im staying a little bit away from this thread but man oh man did i love that first episode...i swear androids/synthetics becoming self aware is like...my catnip??? (why havent i watched Humans yet...)

[red snow]

On 08/10/2016 at 11:40 AM, Destiel's Child said:

Episode 2 spoilers... 

  Hide contents

 

The 2 newcomers, William and Logan seem to work together and Logan mentions at some point that part is his trip is for work and he also mentions that his sister has been there before.  From this, I assumed that William is married to her, i.e. they are brothers in law and William and Logan both work for the family business (probs sis too).  From the first moment they show the two of them, I felt like their scenes are flashbacks.  i.e. the origin story of tMiB.  My partner has already told me that I am crazy so you all may as well do that too.  It is, however, really interesting to explore whether this family business is some way connected to Dr. Ford and how he turned from white hat to black hat.  I suspect it has something to do with his wife (Dr. Ford's daughter, maybe???).

Am I the only one who saw it that way? 

In Maeve's nightmare, the native chasing her turns into tMiB.  This really confused me, but it feels like perhaps that had happened multiple times and each time was slightly different, so the memories overlapped as dreams tend to do.

But one thing was clarified.  The girl checking William in was asking about his anxieties... She said that he could only get hurt as much as he wants... or something to that effect.  So that would explain tMiB because he wanted the hosts to fight back or it just wasn't fun.

 

As you can see, you're not alone. I just posted a very similar theory. Those scenes are almost definitely flashbacks and William (probably) or Logen (he's dressed in black and violent) are probably tMiB.

On 07/10/2016 at 3:38 PM, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

A place like this is scary as fuck. How would it even be possible to go to a place, be able to rape, murder, and God knows what else and not bring that back to the real world? I want them to explore that. 

A key aspect is that they know it isn't real and that it's ultimately a game/fantasy however real it feels. Knowing you can't be hurt also probably plays a factor. Like how people playing games aren't as psychotic in real life. Yes, it's extremely like reality but they know it's not. It's why players finding out the hosts were capable of AI and remembering their experiences could ruin WestWorld. But I still agree that as viewers we are supposed to beleive there is something disturbed about these players because it is so real for us as viewers.

On 07/10/2016 at 4:24 PM, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Perhaps the guns the guests carry can distinguish guest from host? Now using a rock to potentially brain a fellow guest either accidentally or intentionally is a different story.  

Maybe William kills Logen (with a rock) because he tries to kill/hurt Delores in a future episode? This might partly explain why the MiB dresses like Logen (as a sign of respect) and it may also explain why he's a special guest. Afterall William killing Logen within the game would sink Westworld. Maybe they strike some kind of deal eg lifetime membership for silencing the murder? Then again Ford could a) just blame William for the murder and b ) it wouldn't really explain how they covered up the murder. Unless they just put it down as an accident - I mean they can't prevent someone falling off a horse and breaking their neck. Covering up a human killing a human really would be in both parties' interest.

[red snow]

7 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Not a fan of the William = MIB theory. I think they are both in the same timeframe. 

If his scenes were 30 year old flashbacks I don't think the hosts would be exactly the same, probably more like the Buffalo Bill bot from episode one. 

That's a pretty strong counter argument I agree as I'm pretty sure they outright stated the hosts weren't as realistic back then. It's a stretch but maybe the hosts were initially too human, leading to the accident and their rollback into something more obviously robotic. William and his friend were maybe part of some beta-testing before the park went fully online? It would be even more disturbing if the hosts had always been fully capable of being aware and this was something Ford had to alter?

But there is something going on with all of those scenes with William that doesn't fit with being part of the normal narrative. It could just be that they are fucking with us much like how in episode one the expetations were that MiB was a host and now they want us to think he's a player. Anyway I like that the show has enough ambigiuty to make it feel like various theories could fit. The key thing for me is that I get the impression the writers know fine well who/what MiB is - unlike other shows (cough walking dead) where it's clear the writers don't know the answers to the mysteries they create.

[red snow]

9 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

only one ep has aired in UK thus far so im staying a little bit away from this thread but man oh man did i love that first episode...i swear androids/synthetics becoming self aware is like...my catnip??? (why havent i watched Humans yet...)

You should give Humans a try. Like JonSnow says it does deal with some similar ethical questions to those that appear to be raised by Westworld. Humans is more about how AI could affect society but there are plenty of places where it is silly eg you don't need to buil a human robot to work at a call centre - you simply create an AI program to answer phone calls. The other silly thing was that so-called expensive robots are used as janitors. Unless those things came with a lifetime guarantee I'd expect it would still (sadly) be cheaper to hire a human. Those inconsistencies aside. I'd say it's still worth a watch - just don't expect it to be as good as Westworld's premier. Season 2 is out soon as well.

Oh and I agree it's probably safer to avoid spoilers until you've seen the current episode!

[Jaxom 1974]

3 hours ago, red snow said:

As you can see, you're not alone. I just posted a very similar theory. Those scenes are almost definitely flashbacks and William (probably) or Logen (he's dressed in black and violent) are probably tMiB.

A key aspect is that they know it isn't real and that it's ultimately a game/fantasy however real it feels. Knowing you can't be hurt also probably plays a factor. Like how people playing games aren't as psychotic in real life. Yes, it's extremely like reality but they know it's not. It's why players finding out the hosts were capable of AI and remembering their experiences could ruin WestWorld. But I still agree that as viewers we are supposed to beleive there is something disturbed about these players because it is so real for us as viewers.

Maybe William kills Logen (with a rock) because he tries to kill/hurt Delores in a future episode? This might partly explain why the MiB dresses like Logen (as a sign of respect) and it may also explain why he's a special guest. Afterall William killing Logen within the game would sink Westworld. Maybe they strike some kind of deal eg lifetime membership for silencing the murder? Then again Ford could a) just blame William for the murder and b ) it wouldn't really explain how they covered up the murder. Unless they just put it down as an accident - I mean they can't prevent someone falling off a horse and breaking their neck. Covering up a human killing a human really would be in both parties' interest.

I'll start to buy into your theory a little, because I do believe that the MiB and his past is distinctly wrapped up in what's going on with Dolores and what Ford is up to now.

I prefer the version that the MiB is William, that something happened brought him into his current level of crazy.  That the MiB says he was reborn at the park would feed that idea some.

[Baitac]

I think that the MiB is the second oldest host, after Dolores. Whereas Dolores and the others don't age, he has "aged" through different iterations of the model, with their memories intact and added to his giant memory program. Through thirty years of play, he has discovered these Easter eggs that Ford has inserted to see how far extrapolation and memory can lead. 

The whole church thing is very interesting. Whereas the hosts live in a two-week present, the concept of God and an afterlife is sure to make no sense as it would  also be reset every two weeks. This would be the case unless the hosts' new secret programming is going to extend their concept of time into the future, much like their dreams have extended their concept of time to the past.

This stuff is so complicated. I feel like we're back to True Detective-like discussions. Really loving this show. I wish I could binge watch it. I want know it all NOW!