I cant believe why daenerys is view like a god......by some readers

[Dicer]

I am a fan of both Jon and Dany (there aren't many of us in the forums but we do exist)... and I became a fan of both of these characters only after reading ADwD; Cat was my favourite before that.

They are some of my favorite characters too. It's hard being a Jon and Dany fan on these forums. Unfortunately, I think ADwD was not a good book for Dany because of pacing issues but I think it's a great book for Jon. His ADwD story arc was as great as Tyrion's story arc in ACoK.

Also Dany is Dragon Jesus. It is known.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Secondly Dany is a slaver herself. She only decided to free slaves when she needed an army. Before that she didn't think of freeing slaves and had no problem with Drogo taking slaves to fund an army. She was willing to let Drogo enslave thousands in Westeros as long as she got the IT. She is far from the great emancipator.

This assertion is incorrect. She did have problems with Drogo taking slaves, she clearly says so in AGOT. And Dany in AGOT is not the Dany in ADWD, she has matured, changed and developed. Even if she did believe that slavery was acceptable and liked it, which she didn't, her opinion of it clearly changed. If Dany truly did not care about the welfare of the slaves of Slaver's Bay, why did she go on to attempt to liberate the slaves of Yunkai and Meereen? She already had an army, gold, silver and other essential items from the Sack.

ETA: The problem Dany has is that she doesn't want to own up to the fact that in order for her to achieve her goals, people will die, even those she perceives to be innocent. This problem isn't unique to Dany, of course, but it is part of the reason why she hasn't been successful. She uses cruelty and appeasement towards her enemies, which is ineffective, and useless. I hope in TWOW, she doesn't continue on this path of decisiveness.

[Gneisenau]

Dany is great, except for that one moment where she sent her dragon on the slaver after the deal.

[Rhymes with Weak]

Dany is great, except for that one moment where she sent her dragon on the slaver after the deal.

I know right, literally her only moment where she showed any flaws whatsoever.

[Aslerys]

...

So a quick summary. Not everything was bad for Dany in ADWD. Her arc contained a lot of interesting ideas but the ridiculous setting and the horrible execution of some of those ideas blew up in her face and created the wide spread Dany hatred.

:agree: Awsome post! That's how I see her,she is not a god she just a girl in a very difficult position to me ! And I think Daario may be dead when she returns, courtesy of a certain Victarion...

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

It's way to early to call Dany the great liberator of the East. First of all she has only abolished slavery in 1 city and slavery is alive and well outside her walls. As soon as she leaves for Westeros slavery will return and the situation will be 10x worse for the slaves because of the mess Dany left. You can take the greatest men in the world and they would have a hard time getting rid of the slave trade in Slavers bay. It's just part of the culture. The is the same in the real world where slavery is still alive and well in parts of Africa. Slavers bay is even worse because almost it's entire economy is based on slavery.

Secondly Dany is a slaver herself. She only decided to free slaves when she needed an army. Before that she didn't think of freeing slaves and had no problem with Drogo taking slaves to fund an army. She was willing to let Drogo enslave thousands in Westeros as long as she got the IT. She is far from the great emancipator. When all is said and done Dany will have made everyone's lives in Slavers bay much worse. Slavery will go on and thousands will have died for virtually nothing.

Also the notion of "practicing" ruling is absurd. If you need to practice ruling then you shouldn't be ruling in the first place.Dany is completely changing the economy of a city and warring with virtually all her neighbors for what? Practice? And what happens when she feels she has enough practice? She packs up and leaves her mess behind.

Practicing, also known as developing a skill, is about as far from absurd as you can go. Ruling is just a skill like any other, and of course it must be developed through doing. There is no other way.

Why do you presume Dany will carelessly abandon the cities she liberated? There is no basis for that except anti-Danyism. Dany learned a hard lesson after she handed Astapor over to former slaves. She should have a better plan for Mereen.

You see, Dany is quite smart and actually learns from her mistakes and grows. Her story is actually quite interesting in its progression. (You'll just have to get over the fact that Daario got her.).

She's naive, but she's also the **********ing Dragon.

As for slavery, saying the culture and economy of it can't be broken is wrong. History proves it over and again. It takes a very violent upheaval, though, and that is what the Mother of Dragons brings. It is silly and presumptuous to say that Dany can only make things worse. (For the slavers, sure.).

And you also don't consider that the longer the slave culture persists, the more numerous and dangerous the slaves grow. Look Volantis, which is about to blow. That's also the Dany effect.

And blaming Dany for Drogo's Dothraki slaving? Yeah, okay. She is the liberator. Not sure why anyone would dispute that.

[Veltigar]

It's way to early to call Dany the great liberator of the East.

I can agree with that. Although it seems more likely than not that she’ll earn that title before tWoW is over.

First of all she has only abolished slavery in 1 city

She abolished it in three cities and in her own Khalesar. But granted two of those cities turned on her and re-introduced it.

and slavery is alive and well outside her walls.

For now

As soon as she leaves for Westeros slavery will return and the situation will be 10x worse for the slaves because of the mess Dany left. You can take the greatest men in the world and they would have a hard time getting rid of the slave trade in Slavers bay. It's just part of the culture.

Do you really think that culture will survive tWoW? Or that Dany will make the same mistake of letting a city slip from underneath her supervision again?

I mean we know for a fact that Dany will head to Westeros in tWoW. GRRM has confirmed a second Dance of Dragons so Dany will pack her shit up and go. But she can only do that by defeating the Yunkish army. When the Yunkishmen go down, what do you think she’ll do? Just leave Yunkai unharmed like the last time? Hell no, Yunkai lies straight on her way to Westeros/Volantis. And it’s filled with new slaves, supplies and valuables. She’ll sack it and a lot more thoroughly than she did in Astapor.

I also don’t think she’ll leave Meereen behind as it is. That city has been slowly dying for centuries and the siege and the battles have destroyed everything of real value in the area. If she leaves Meereen intact the slave trade will start again and since Meereen has no other value to her causes (freeing slaves and conquer the IT) she’ll probably burn it down, Nymeria style.

Secondly Dany is a slaver herself. She only decided to free slaves when she needed an army. Before that she didn't think of freeing slaves and had no problem with Drogo taking slaves to fund an army.

1) Not she was not. Drogo was. I can agree that she benefitted for a short while but don't forget she was also a slave herself for the most part of her life.

2) She freed every slaved that stayed with her after she came out of the pyre, so that’s not true.

3) You do know that people can repent and try to make amends for the sins they have committed? I mean if not you have a pretty negative image of human nature and you ignore the many real life examples of people who bettered themselves after doing some pretty wrong shit (think of St. Francis of Assisi or if you want an example from fiction Ebenezer Scrooge from Dickens a christmas caroll)

4) Unlike Ser Jorah or Viserys Dany was raised in Essos were slavery, by and large, is considered lawful and part of the fabric of society. She was never learned to perceive slavery as wrong but yet she found the strength to open her eyes and go against the current. Even though at the time she started doing that she had every reason to stick to the system because she was in charge then. Not many people are able to do that and sadly not many of those who do that become successful or live to tell the tale.

She was willing to let Drogo enslave thousands in Westeros as long as she got the IT.

Where exactly does she say that? I must have missed her Bond villain monologue about plunging Westeros into chaos and how she likes her babymeat cooked.

When all is said and done Dany will have made everyone's lives in Slavers bay much worse. Slavery will go on and thousands will have died for virtually nothing.

1) That remains to be seen

2) The whole point is that those people, all those people before her coming died for absolutely nothing at all. But thanks to Dany they have a chance, they have hope, they could end up on top and break the circle. With an attitude like yours nothing would ever change, not in Westeros and not in real world.

The only people that are worse of then before are the rich slavers. The common folk of Meereen and the slaves are actually doing better than before. Thanks to Dany there is upward mobility.

A slave can now use the sweat on his back, the skill of his hands and the ingenuity of his own mind for his own good. Instead of toiling away and ceding the profit to a rich master.

Slaves and Meerenese commoners can now participate in the public life without being blocked off from positions in the army and the administration by the incompetent children of the rich.

To put it briefly Dany has given them a life. They might lose it, but before she came they didn’t have a life to begin with, so even if they fall they have already won. I mean look at the Spartacus rebellion. That happened more than 2000 years ago and yet their story inspired countless generations of thinkers, revolutionaries, freedom fighters, artists and abolitionists. What we do in live can resonate through eternity and influence many others to aspire for a better life.

Also the notion of "practicing" ruling is absurd. If you need to practice ruling then you shouldn't be ruling in the first place.Dany is completely changing the economy of a city and warring with virtually all her neighbors for what? Practice? And what happens when she feels she has enough practice? She packs up and leaves her mess behind.

1) You aren’t active in politics I reckon? The idea of practicing ruling is very realistic since it happens in every political system around the world that I know off. I don’t know where you are from but in my country all of our PM’s have risen through the ranks. Before they were deemed fit to rule the country they were mayors, councilmen, senators, MP’s, chiefs of staff, etc.

Even in a dictatorship like North Korea the successor is groomed by his predecessor and his closest advisors before he actually steps in and starts leading the country.

Conclusion: the whole notion of automatically being a natural at ruling is absurd, not the notion that one needs practice to successfully run a country.

2) The economy of that city and of its neighbors is completely based on SLAVERY. First you give Dany shit because she herself used to be a slaver according to you and now you are reprimanding her for fighting against slavery? That’s more than a little bit hypocritical don’t you think.

3) And again you judge before we know what she’s actually going to do. Personally, I believe she’ll head for Volantis, destroy Meereen and Yunkai and take her slaves with her. That seems a lot more logical to me than leaving those cities behind untouched but you are free to think otherwise.

[TheMysteriousOne]

<snip>

I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

[LifeRuiner]

I am a fan of both Jon and Dany (there aren't many of us in the forums but we do exist)... and I became a fan of both of these characters only after reading ADwD; Cat was my favourite before that.

No, I do not see her as a God. I see her as a very flawed hero. A conqueror who has just learned that sacking cities is easy pie compared to establishing a long-lasting dynasty. I see a strong possibility of Dany being regarded as a villain (kinslayer, Mad Aerys II etc. etc.) by the people in the Westeros, even though she will be one of the heroes in the Battle for Dawn.

You are not alone with liking both Jon and Dany. Granted, I've been absent for a year, but I didn't realize the fan demographics changed so much. Maybe people get tired of endless hate threads.

I also see her as a flawed hero who is currently being schooled for her certain political naivete. She will certainly have an interesting arc in Winds.

[Veltigar]

I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

:D

I am a fan of both Jon and Dany (there aren't many of us in the forums but we do exist)...

Don't worry we are fighting the good fight :cheers: In fact if it comforts you I'm part of an even smaller minority namely the Jon+Dany shippers

[SwordInDaDarkness]

I am not sure dragons are reserved for War for Dawn 2.0, but I know they will have humongous role in Dance of dragons 2.0... And since I think that two confrontations will happen simultaneously, I see Martin pulling the greatest irony. The powerful weapon, dragons are used somewhere else, while pretenders are fighting for the throne that belong to the guy fighting in another war...

I'm sure the dragons will be a huge part of the DoD 2.0 but I feel like Viserion will not be a huge part of that showdown. I think he's somehow disconnected from the other two. He might end up being Jon's weapon for the bigger cause as Jon might also be disconnected from Dany and Aegon.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

This is what I think of when thinking of people worshipping Dany

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oqH55RWPHaw&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoqH55RWPHaw

[Jon of the Dead]

Also Dany is Dragon Jesus. It is known.

Well, her storyline does have a birth in the middle of the dessert (not her birth, obviously but still). She is visited by 3 "wise men" (well, 2 wise men and a wise woman): Xaro, Pyat Pree and Quaithe. And she follows a star (the comet)

So, yeah, all hail the Mother of Dragons!

[Rhymes with Weak]

Well, her storyline does have a birth in the middle of the dessert (not her birth, obviously but still). She is visited by 3 "wise men" (well, 2 wise men and a wise woman): Xaro, Pyat Pree and Quaithe. And she follows a star (the comet)

So, yeah, all hail the Mother of Dragons!

We all know what happened to Jesus before the end...

[IRON BANK]

Dany is a great person - she is a true liberator in the East. The historical importance of what she is doing for the slaves of Worlderos is immense.

Of course she's wielding power awkwardly and clumsily as she learns, and she tends to bite off more than she should.

She is flawed and immature, but she is not ordinary - she is great, she is the Dragon.

More on point, ruling in Slaver's Bay should be good practice for ruling Westeros, if she ever does.

Good point. Dany is working hard I dont think she is a God , but she does move the story along and add some interesting insight into the fantasy realm. I think it is interesting how much debate is put into her story line on this board she seems very admired by some readers and hated by others I myself see her as a polarizing figure who will more than likely destroy alot of westeros's houses, and some of our favorite characters. If you are invested in the westeros story line this could pose a problem for some readers as the building of anxiety looms with the certain conflict Dany will bring.

[Little Balerion]

I think show fans make up Dany's biggest fandom,

khaleeeesi 4 lyfe!!!!

I am just glad Tyrion ended up in Essos, else I don't know how I'd get through those Essos chapters. And there was a lot of Essos in Book 5.

I still find Dany & Barristan's chapters the most boring.

[Little Balerion]

His Westeros is brilliant, I’d go so far as to say that it’s the definitive pseudo-medieval English fantasy setting. But the farther east he gets the more he loses touch so to speak. His free cities are passable but Slavers bay and Qarth are horrible settings. Nothing about those cultures feels real (even though some things like the three walls of Qarth are based on actual history). In aCoK and ASOS she avoided the bullet a bit because of her momentum but the moment she started a slower part of her arc in one of those places she was fucked.

Completely agree. I just find the Slavers Bay cultures and events unreal. Give me Arya in Braavos!

[Winter's Knight]

<snip>

Oh bless! That was wonderful.

How can I not find Dany breathtaking?

I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half-mad ... a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere out upon the grass her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen are proof enough of that. She has crossed the grasslands and the red waste, survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandaled feet.

[Sansa_Stark]

"Where exactly does she say that? I must have missed her Bond villain monologue about plunging Westeros into chaos and how she likes her babymeat cooked."

"Khal Drogo would drive them downriver to one of the towns on Slaver’s Bay. She wanted to cry, but she told herself that she must be strong. This is war, this is what it looks like, this is the price of the Iron Throne."

She had no problem doing it to the Lhazareen.

She knows that the Dothraki will rape, kill and enslave Westerosi if she crosses.

[Winter's Knight]

"Where exactly does she say that? I must have missed her Bond villain monologue about plunging Westeros into chaos and how she likes her babymeat cooked."

"Khal Drogo would drive them downriver to one of the towns on Slaver’s Bay. She wanted to cry, but she told herself that she must be strong. This is war, this is what it looks like, this is the price of the Iron Throne."

She had no problem doing it to the Lhazareen.

She knows that the Dothraki will rape, kill and enslave Westerosi if she crosses.

And she's supposed to do..what exactly? She starts working against it as well as she can by claiming as many women as possible for her own-so your statement that she has no problem enslaving the Lhazareen is absurd when she frees them all before the first book even finishes.