Orbulas B. Harding Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Robert's death always seemed like to random an incident to me to just accidentally set so much story in motion. In story with so many grand schemes and designs the idea that it was all an accident seems lazy on Martin's part.If we consider the possibility that the three-eyed crow has enough power to warg in to a boar in the King's Wood, can any of us fine folk fathom a reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanmp16 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 it wasnt an accident, lancel gave him some super strong wine that got him ridiculously drunk, its implied if the boar didn't kill him, cersei/lancel would have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Assuming Balerion is BR I don't think he hated Robert as much as he hated the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 It was Lancel who killed him giving him very strong wine. When he meets Jaime at Darry he admits to committing the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I know its kind of specific and odd but I actually think that it is implied that they just tried to get him super tanked with the wine and hoped that that the hunting would kill him somehow and it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WightsNatch Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Could BR warg a boar if he wanted to? I think so. But would he? Ofcourse, it wasn't an accident in the fullest sense. Robert was given strong wine and was known to wait until the very last moment before striking. Then again, they were looking for a white hart originally and it was while they were in the woods that Robert's party heard about the boar. Cersei wanted him dead, the melee at the Hand's Tourney was another opportunity if Robert had participated. Hunting accidents happen. King William II of England was killed in a hunting accident (but was probably murdered by his brother Henry). But in medieval times lots of nobles died after being shot accidently with an arrow, thrown from a frightened horse or gored by beasts. In our times, lots of people get shot accidently each year while hunting or - more rare - killed by their prey.So, no magic there with a warged boar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Ahai Reborn Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Assuming Balerion is BR I don't think he hated Robert as much as he hated the Lannisters.I always thought Balerion was Elia's or Rhaenys's second life. We don't know who Elia's father is, could be a Dayne or someone else with some First Men blood. Assuming Bloodraven can be a greenseer with Blackwood first-men blood, which is probably pretty diluted with Andal blood, then I would think Elia or Rhaenys can be a skinchanger too. Or is worshiping the Old Gods, not just First Men blood, required to be a skinchanger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Well, I think there's nothing more to it than Lancel. But I always found it very, very weird. Bob was used to drinking... How could that be the plot? In the books it looks like something obvious, but I have my doubts about how would that work. It seems unlikely that Bob would die like that, even if he was drunk as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbulas B. Harding Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Could BR warg a boar if he wanted to? I think so. But would he?Ofcourse, it wasn't an accident in the fullest sense. Robert was given strong wine and was known to wait until the very last moment before striking. Then again, they were looking for a white hart originally and it was while they were in the woods that Robert's party heard about the boar. Cersei wanted him dead, the melee at the Hand's Tourney was another opportunity if Robert had participated.Hunting accidents happen. King William II of England was killed in a hunting accident (but was probably murdered by his brother Henry). But in medieval times lots of nobles died after being shot accidently with an arrow, thrown from a frightened horse or gored by beasts. In our times, lots of people get shot accidently each year while hunting or - more rare - killed by their prey.So, no magic there with a warged boar.No doubt hunting accidents happen, the happen all the time, but this isn't indifferent and unplotted really, this is an incredibly deliberate world of fiction that runs on wheels within wheels (There are all sort of other fictions where random occurence is a central theme, but Ice and fire is far from the top of my list is the 'random chance' category.)The obvious outcome of killing Robert would be the chaos that followed, but that doesn't give away Bloodravens allegiances. Maybe he is not a servant of ice or fire but someone whos endgame involves unleading both upon the world, create a blank slate int he snow and ashes.A time when the Wierwoods can retake the land and perhaps... the COTF are in on it.Euron (whose prophetic image has again and again resembles Bloodravens) might be his desciple, sending him out to assai and the doom in a plan to "stoke the fires" as it were"Who knows what his plans are for BranJust a few thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMikes Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I doubt it. If Bloodraven is attempting to protect the realm from the Others, then starting a colossal civil war south of the wall seems like a bad place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbulas B. Harding Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 I doubt it. If Bloodraven is attempting to protect the realm from the Others, then starting a colossal civil war south of the wall seems like a bad place to start.I was positing the notion that he's not protecting the world fromt he tohers... i don't believe it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WightsNatch Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 It was sold as an accident, because accidents happen. It is a clumsy way to try to kill someone. Counting on the effect of the wine, counting on Roberts practice of striking at the last moment, counting on the boar to seriously wound or kill Robert outright. In retrospect, it looks pretty stupid. Just the thing Cersei would do. :) It all comes down to; means, motive and opportunity.But.... Robert could have escaped unscathed, or with a minor wound, for example to his leg. But we know how small wounds can become infected.... Maybe Pycelle would have lent a hand, should the situation have called for it. The boar did what any boar or trapped animal would have done. Put up a fight. That's how it looks like an accident. If Robert had gotten an arrow in the face, from Lancel say, it would have been suspicious, especially after Jon Arryn's death. Cersei was betting on the boar and it played out beautifully for her. Boars do what boars do. BR had the means and the opportunity. Did he have a motive? If he wanted to kill an usurper to the Targ throne, he had ample opportunity during the rebellion (like warging his horse and throwing him in the waters of the Trident in his duel with Rhaegar or countless other possibilities). If he wants to create chaos, killing the King is a good start. But why would he want to create chaos? Why warg the boar there and then. Maybe BR has an endgame we don't know yet or can speculate about, because it is very different from what we expect. But for now, I don't really see a motive.Also, it kinda diminishes Cersei's and Lancel's plotline, if they aren't really guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbulas B. Harding Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Perhaps memory has diminished the agency of Cersie and Lancel in just kinda nudging it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Robert's death always seemed like to random an incident to me to just accidentally set so much story in motion. In story with so many grand schemes and designs the idea that it was all an accident seems lazy on Martin's part.If we consider the possibility that the three-eyed crow has enough power to warg in to a boar in the King's Wood, can any of us fine folk fathom a reason why.It was said Robert was doomed no matter what. If it wasnt the boar, it would have been a stray arrow or some other "mishap". Remember that Cersei originally wanted Robert in the tourney. Robert's death was a grand scheme and part of an even bigger one to remove all of the Baratheon brothers. So it's not "lazy" writing at all.I'll admit the idea crossed my mind before and I wouldn't be shocked if he did, honestly. There's just not much evidence at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 A boar would have been better for Cersei. A random arrow might draw suspicion when the incest rumors come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodbye World Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 It was Lancel who killed him giving him very strong wine. When he meets Jaime at Darry he admits to committing the crime.Yes but it was BR who made Lancel give him the wine, afterwards he wiped his memory and made him think that he did it of his own free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thendel Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Yes but it was BR who made Lancel give him the wine, afterwards he wiped his memory and made him think that he did it of his own free will.And he then implanted a false memory in Cersei that she ordered him to? Boy, Bloodraven sounds more and more like a god for every thread I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaginepageant Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I thought it was implied that the wine Lancel gave Robert was drugged... or was that a show invention? Eh, even if it isn't stated in the books, it could still be true. Whatever it was might not have been enough to kill him, just daze his mind enough for some vicious animal to get the better of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yeah, it was much stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 a warg strikes just when human assassins have made it unnecessary? and no self-respecting warg would work with the Lannisters. Greenseers probably feel as much derision for the fancy Lannisters as Nascar fans used to feel toward Jeff Gordon. so it's a statistical impossibility that separate assassination plots would strike as one. And if you were asking about a fight between a tree-attached Bloodraven and a super-fat super-drunk Robert, I don't know. It's possible Bloodraven could kill Robert in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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