jordanmp16 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 How does mel know who does or doesn't have kings blood, how was she aware of edric storm being roberts bastard? Does she have some type of power that lets her detect it in someone, and if so, wouldn't she realize that jon snow has kings blood if R+L=J is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Edric Storm is widely known to be Robert's bastard, in fact Robert has even acknowledged him (not legitimized, but acknowledged, i.e. admitted publicly that Edric is his). No wonder Mel knows.Of course, all that King's Blood talk is a bit strange anyways. Who decides who's a king and who isn't? Would Joffrey count, for example? Robb? Did Mance count, actually? I tend to think it's no more than exalted words and superstition and has nothing to do with the actual magical makeup of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Most likely, she was told that Edric is Robert's bastard, and after obtaining that knowledge, she needed him for her own nefarious purposes... So, entire thing about King's blood is nonsense, especially regarding Mel and her perception of that, given that Mance's child also has that blood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I'm not sure the whole king's blood thing is bunk. It's just it's all coming from Mel. If you consider "king's blood" is just the blood of a powerful person (and their children) then Dany's blood sacrifice of Khal Drogo, Mirri and Rhaego fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 She doesn't have the power to detect king's blood. Edric Storm being Bob's bastard son is widely known fact.Of course, all that King's Blood talk is a bit strange anyways. Who decides who's a king and who isn't? Would Joffrey count, for example? Robb? Did Mance count, actually? I tend to think it's no more than exalted words and superstition and has nothing to do with the actual magical makeup of the world. :agree: 100% with this. I'm particularly interested in what would Mel say about e.g. Mya Stone. Did her blood became magical after Bob was crowned? Or did Viserys' blood stop being magical after Targs were dethroned. Maybe Joffrey's blood lost half of its "magicalness" after 4 out of 7 kingdoms rose against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaSnark Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Of course, all that King's Blood talk is a bit strange anyways. Who decides who's a king and who isn't? Would Joffrey count, for example? Robb? Did Mance count, actually? I tend to think it's no more than exalted words and superstition and has nothing to do with the actual magical makeup of the world.This is something I've wondered about consistently as I've read the books. If the blood of the "true" king is what's powerful, then Mel would have needed to seek only Targaryan relations because the Baratheons were just usurpers. If the blood of anyone who declares himself king is powerful, then Mel could literally burn anyone at any time after forcing them to declare themselves a king. Inexhaustible supply of kings' blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 This is something I've wondered about consistently as I've read the books. If the blood of the "true" king is what's powerful, then Mel would have needed to seek only Targaryan relations because the Baratheons were just usurpers. If the blood of anyone who declares himself king is powerful, then Mel could literally burn anyone at any time after forcing them to declare themselves a king. Inexhaustible supply of kings' blood.Two possibilites: Either the power of the blood relates to a lot of people swearing fealty to the king - or it is just superstition. A common superstition, but superstition nevertheless.It can't be an inherited semi-genetic trait, since that would mean each and everybody alive would have it after a couple generations.I bet on superstition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffyB Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Baratheons do have targaryen blood in them though,so edric storm still technically has king's blood (albeit very diluted). But then so does stannis's daughter in that case,but mel didnt seem to care much about her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaSnark Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I bet on superstition.I tend to agree, but then that makes me wonder why so many otherwise reasonable characters seem to buy into this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I tend to agree, but then that makes me wonder why so many otherwise reasonable characters seem to buy into this!Because it's a fundamental argument for royalty or nobility that has been drilled into them their entire life.Fact: Nobility is better than smallfolk by virtue of birth/blood.Fact: Royalty is better than nobility by virtue of birth/blood.That's the credo of Westeros, apart from the Wildlings. Translating that to blood sacrifice is only natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Hmmm....About this King's Blood thing, I have been thinking it might have something to do with myths in which legendary kings married godesses (Stormkings) and mermaids (the Grey King); perhaps from there comes the in-universe belief that kings' bloodlines are special and, well, magical. OTOH, the Valyrians (including the Targaryens) were known to sorcerers and their blood is very likely needed to ride the dragons, and the Starks (and others) have the whole skinchanging thing going on... Maybe the blood of dragonlords or skinchangers would truly work better in magical rituals than that of other people. So I think there could be a grain of truth in Mel's words about "powerful" blood, albeit for a different reason than that a person is called a king or a leader or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 So I think there could be a grain of truth in Mel's words about "powerful" blood, albeit for a different reason than that a person is called a king or a leader or whatever.I concur with your (whole) post. She says there's power in king's blood but never suggests that common blood is without its strengths. Blood magic wouldn't exist if there was nothing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 The problem with that is that blood (genes) spread. For comparison: Every single European currently alive is descended from Charlemagne. That's a mere 1200 years and a single guy compared to the millennia and multitude of sources you proposes.The Westerosi may agree with you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 The problem with that is that blood (genes) spread. For comparison: Every single European currently alive is descended from Charlemagne. That's a mere 1200 years and a single guy compared to the millennia and multitude of sources you proposes.The Westerosi may agree with you though.This is magic you're scientific about and Westeros is not our world. If it was the real world, I would agree with you.(Either way, it easily explains why the Targaryens often kept it in the family. Outbreeding is a b*tch.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sure, it's magic. But it has to follow rules. Unless you propose a set of rules, I'll keep it parallel to the real world. The oaths of fealty I've mentioned above would qualify. Seventh son of a seventh son as well. But if it's descendancy, the Charlemagne example fits. Westerosi don't favor a one child policy, no more than European rulers did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanmp16 Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 hopefully TWOW will shed some more light on blood magic in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleRickon Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 one explanation: kings blood means blood from a leader. The greater the following, the "better" the blood. It could go either way of: kings blood makes you a great leader, or alternatively, the admiration coming from being a great leader makes your blood special. Could actually be tested by comparing a kings blood to a prince, who doesn't have a following yet. Or comparing weak to strong kings from the same line.explains Drogo's blood sacrifice being successful. explains how e.g. Stannis has "better" blood even though their line was not royal a generation ago.problem: Mance would now be "king's blood" yet Mel let's him off the hool. Acutally, Mel never burns anyone with king's blood.other explanations kings blood = Targaryen/Valyrian. Due to their connection to dragons.my favorite explanation: it's a total hoax, and king's blood is no more effective in an offering than goat's blood, other than people believing it works make things more likely to come to pass. Basically a placebo effect.Explains how Mel doesn't seem very determined to burn every royal she gets her hands on, while still explaining how she argues for royal offerings all the time. Would mean Jon sent maester Aemon on a boat ride due to a giant misunderstanding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaSnark Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 She says there's power in king's blood but never suggests that common blood is without its strengths. Blood magic wouldn't exist if there was nothing in it.This is a really good point - no one says that royal blood is required for blood magic to work, just that it's especially powerful. I wonder if Khal Drogo's blood was "kingly" and therefore especially powerful, and if that was truly what hatched Dany's dragons. I also wonder whose blood Melisandre would need to awaken the stone dragons on Dragonstone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 There is little mystery about how Melisandre knew that Edric Storm is Robert's son. It is common knowledge, after all. The TV series is a bit trickier in this respect.However, Melisandre's reading about what constitutes "King's Blood" is way too inclusive to be trustworthy. It would not surprise me to learn that it is a straight lie, or even that blood is potent for magic just due to its being blood.It may well be just a psychologica advantage that she is tapping into, as well. After all, artificial as the very concept of a King is, there are still plenty of people who are moved by the mystique of the idea of a "True King"... even in real life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleRickon Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Also the one blood sacrifice that Mel did, the Florent ex-hand, seemed to be quite successful in getting them good winds on their way north. Yet Florents seem pretty unkingly. I know they are somehow connected to the old Gardener kings, but that is probably true of most of the Reach's nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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