Starkside of the Force Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 The tale of Symon Star Eyes, the blinded knight who put sapphires in his sockets, then fought with a dual bladed glaive.It is mentioned that he visited the nightfort where he saw hellhounds fighting.Seeing as he was blind he wasa.) A wight, like coldhands with the blue eyesb.) a prophet, as he was having visionsc.) delirious, and would have to have been able to see at one point, to see visions.Now keep in mind, Symon was a knight, did knights exist during the age of heroes?, as well as being an Andal during the point where the Andals and the First men (inhabitants of the wall) were at war. What was he doing so far into the North at the Wall.The Andals never conquered the North, meaning he couldn't have been there on conquest fighting, and there is no reason they would stage a skirmish at the wall.I believe all of Old nans stories have significance, but I dont quite get the significance of this one. It did occur to be that Hellhound is a bastardized version of the word wolf, which could imply two bastards fighting at it in the Nightfort. Jon and Ramsay do jump to mind, but it is unlikely and there is no real evidence of that.The nightfort has the hidden door beneath it, features some of Old Nans scariest stories, is the one Coldhands showed up at, and is being made fit for habitation by Stannis Baratheon as of the end of aDwD.Could he be Coldhands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkside of the Force Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 The questions being, what significance does this story have, why the hellhounds, and why is the Nightfort brought up in relation to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Seeing as he was blind he wasa.) A wight, like coldhands with the blue eyesI'm not sure in the OP with the a,b,c if you are wondering if he was a wight or not. (i'm slow today). But I think he had an Others connection fwiw.I the same book we see Jaffers, when he's found. He already has blue eyes. They are described as 'sapphire blue'. This description links Jaffers to Symeon, and the insinuation seems to be that he was a wight, or some kind of hybrid.As for the hellhounds fighting, I'm stumped. The fact Symeon comes up in three chapters make me think this legend could have some relevance somehow, but I can' figure out what that might be. You bring up some good points in the OP, and the visions idea is iiiiinteresting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkside of the Force Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 This is going to irritate me for a long time now :) Someone who knows everything about aSoIaF save me :( Call E-ro ... call somebody :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 The more i think about Symeon having visions, the more I think what a great frikkin' idea that is, and something that had never occured to me. Starkside, I think you're right about that part. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a 'prophesy puzzle' of some sort.Now. Hellhounds. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 There is something to the Symeon legend, same way every Nightfort story has some sort of relevance. It's just unclear for the moment what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonNonRegis Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Could he be Coldhands?I doubt it; Coldhands has eyes, and they're black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 There's another thread, somewhat like this here. In case you wanted to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Not necessarily a parallel in the story, but when I think of Symeon Star-Eyes, I can't help but remember Maester Aemon. For a blind man, he sure does seem to "see" a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 They did not have knights during the Age of Heroes, however it's not uncommon for stories from that time to be sorta retconned to contain knights. Personally I think it's just a legend. Maybe Martin is a fan of Zatoichi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkside of the Force Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Thats an interesting theory, very relevant to it, and a little more developed than mine - I like it :) Well my reasoning behind coldhands is that Symon wasnt blind and didnt replace his eyes with sapphires. Another relevant theory is the gemstone conspiracies, that Sapphires mean Secrets - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Cracking a few more pots and throwing random ideas around, could Symeon's Daredevil fighting abilities been due to seeing the world through warging? A skill he presumably kept secret for fear of prejudice and to keep his tactical advantage (and because it's just that much more badass if people think he's simply that intuitive), all of which would link with the sapphire=secret stuff.Arya then later uses this exact same method to get intel while she's temporarily blind.Not saying it's any more plausible than the sapphire eyes being Other eyes or part-Other eyes, it's just another idea that came into my head when reading this very interesting thread and which I thought should be thrown out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkside of the Force Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 And thats why he 'saw' the hellhounds fighting. He was watching via the Hellhounds. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Cracking a few more pots and throwing random ideas around, could Symeon's Daredevil fighting abilities been due to seeing the world through warging? A skill he presumably kept secret for fear of prejudice and to keep his tactical advantage (and because it's just that much more badass if people think he's simply that intuitive), all of which would link with the sapphire=secret stuff.Arya then later uses this exact same method to get intel while she's temporarily blind. This is a really good idea, strengthened by the blind Arya example. Symeon might have warged to see things. Although the sapphire eyes seems to clear a link to Jaffers eyes - the first time we ever see a wight. But this is smart thinking and there could be something to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkside of the Force Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 The only other person with "eyes like sapphire" is Coldhands, who could also be a warg, seeing that he rides a great Elk, and commands a legion of rats with wings (ravens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnivil Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Didn't someone on here come up with the theory that saphires are synonymous with lying? Perhaps the fact he had 'saphire eyes' just means the story's a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Didn't someone on here come up with the theory that saphires are synonymous with lying? Perhaps the fact he had 'saphire eyes' just means the story's a lie. Sapphires mean secrets so Symon being more than your average blue eyed boy fits with the sapphire symbolism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Sapphires mean secrets so Symon being more than your average blue eyed boy fits with the sapphire symbolism. You got it! Glad a few people understood that thread. Your explanation is exactly what i had for that one, it seems to be the insinuation, with Jaffers eyes having just been described as sapphires too. The only other person with "eyes like sapphire" is Coldhands, who could also be a warg, seeing that he rides a great Elk, and commands a legion of rats with wings (ravens) Coldhands has eyes like sapphires? - I think you're muddled with Jaffers here. Coldhands has black eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkside of the Force Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 ohdear I am confused :) Its the whites have startling blue eyes like sapphires right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 ohdear I am confused :) Its the whites have startling blue eyes like sapphires right? The Wights and the White Walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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