Daenerys's Blackest Sin, Will she Suffer for It?

[Jessica Rogers]

I think her womb is permanently tainted, I think that is the price she paid but not just for burning Mirri, for agreeing to the whole blood magic thing. there is always a price.

Don't get me wrong, her heart is in the right place, and she's proven to be ridiculously strong for surviving that but the ultimate price is the Targ line ends with her, she's the only Targ that we know for sure is a Targ. She's a dead end unless Jon and or Aegon turn out to in fact be Targs.

I think that is the payment for her sins.

[Mad Monkey]

We don't know her role in his death, but we do know that she at least tricked Daenerys into thinking she could bring him back. That's what I meant by killed. And if you're using your own computer, which I guess you are, you decided it was still worth it, despite chinese children only getting 0,15 cents an hour to build it.

To be fair, she did try to bring him back. She did warn Daenerys that the price would be great, but Daenerys didn't listen to her. I don't blame her -- how many people really understand magic in the series? I can only think of a handful of people (Marwyn, Mirri... not that many other people). But that doesn't make it Mirri's fault per se. She was a slave -- it's not exactly her place to tell a khaleesi that she's making a mistake.

Why would she step forward in the first place if she didn't have some diabolical scheme in place? Mirri manipulated the situation to her advantage. Dany trusted the wrong individual. That's painfully obvious. There's no one person at fault here.

We don't have any proof that Mirri foresaw any of this though. I think she took malicious glee in knowing that her spell wasn't going to do what Dany hoped that it would and that the sacrifice would be more than Dany realized, but that's really about all I can condemn her for. Drogo's actual death was caused by a wound he took in battle which he failed to treat.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think her womb is permanently tainted, I think that is the price she paid but not just for burning Mirri, for agreeing to the whole blood magic thing. there is always a price.

Eh I think her womb is fine, other than how she views it psychologically. She gets pregnant pretty easily once she becomes sexually active again.

[Dicer]

Dany fan here.

I also think burning Mirri was a heinous crime (Well, not really a crime since Mirri "belonged" to Dany, but still pretty deplorable), Mirri was in the right.

I agree. Dany fan here too. And her burning Mirri is one thing I never try to justify or excuse away. It was wrong. Mirri took her revenge and then Dany took her's. Of the two, Mirri was more in the right. I can understand her reasons for why she did what she did. My sympathies are with Mirri on this, not with Dany.

But let's not forget that Dany lost her husband and child too. So she did pay a price for her misdeeds. Mirri atleast died with the knowledge that Drogo was no more. That should have given her some measure of satisfaction.

[Jessica Rogers]

but she was, she with Daario and with her husband and I believe she was having a misscarrage on the Dothraki sea because her womb cannot hold a child.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

but she was, she with Daario and with her husband and I believe she was having a misscarrage on the Dothraki sea because her womb cannot hold a child.

I think she had a miscarriage in the Dothraki Sea because of the poisonous berries and very possibly contaminated she eats and drinks before said miscarriage, not because her womb is cursed.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

To be fair, she did try to bring him back. She did warn Daenerys that the price would be great, but Daenerys didn't listen to her. I don't blame her -- how many people really understand magic in the series? I can only think of a handful of people (Marwyn, Mirri... not that many other people). But that doesn't make it Mirri's fault per se. She was a slave -- it's not exactly her place to tell a khaleesi that she's making a mistake.

We don't have any proof that Mirri foresaw any of this though. I think she took malicious glee in knowing that her spell wasn't going to do what Dany hoped that it would and that the sacrifice would be more than Dany realized, but that's really about all I can condemn her for. Drogo's actual death was caused by a wound he took in battle which he failed to treat.

I do agree with you. We don't know what were Mirri's actions. I'm more keen on she knew the price, but decided she shouldn't say. Though George never cleared if Mirri did her best to help the Khal or if she was trying to poison him. And I took the first from her speech to Dany. If she didn't knew the repercussions of Dany's choice, why did she boasted about what Dany bought? I think Drogo's death wasn't her fault, because he would die with or without her, but Rhaego's hers. I do retract the point where I said she killed Drogo.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I do agree with you. We don't know what were Mirri's actions. I'm more keen on she knew the price, but decided she shouldn't say. Though George never cleared if Mirri did her best to help the Khal or if she was trying to poison him. And I took the first from her speech to Dany. If she didn't knew the repercussions of Dany's choice, why did she boasted about what Dany bought? I think Drogo's death wasn't her fault, because he would die with or without her, but Rhaego's hers. I do retract the point where I said she killed Drogo.

And again, Dany says, "No blood magic, I accept that Drogo is going to die," then there's no blood magic ritual. I mean hell, Mirri tells her flat out it's not a good idea. So it's Mirri's fault that Dany says, "Nah do it anyway"?

[Le Cygne]

I think she had a miscarriage in the Dothraki Sea because of the poisonous berries and very possibly contaminated she eats and drinks before said miscarriage, not because her womb is cursed.

Agree, the two are clearly connected in that chapter, cause and effect.

[Jessica Rogers]

It's defiantly possible, anything really is.

I just think there is a price for blood magic, the loss of her husband and son are big but she also got three dragons.

[Sansa_Stark]

I think her womb is permanently tainted, I think that is the price she paid but not just for burning Mirri, for agreeing to the whole blood magic thing. there is always a price.

Don't get me wrong, her heart is in the right place, and she's proven to be ridiculously strong for surviving that but the ultimate price is the Targ line ends with her, she's the only Targ that we know for sure is a Targ. She's a dead end unless Jon and or Aegon turn out to in fact be Targs.

I think that is the payment for her sins.

this is precisely what happens when you believe in that blood of the dragon crap and think yourself above other humans.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's defiantly possible, anything really is.

I just think there is a price for blood magic, the loss of her husband and son are big but she also got three dragons.

The dragons themselves might end up being more of a burden than a blessing. Anything that requires a blood sacrifice in order to come into being is not "good" or "beneficial" in any objective way.

[Jessica Rogers]

The dragons themselves might end up being more of a burden than a blessing. Anything that requires a blood sacrifice in order to come into being is not "good" or "beneficial" in any objective way.

True.

I think that horn is important but this is not the tread for that subject :bang:

[The Idiots Lantern]

We do not even come close to knowing for sure that it was the berries that caused the miscarriage. A woman in the burning sun for days deprived of proper food and cut off from any kind of medical attention can have a miscarriage for any number of reasons. The berries could be a coicidence.

And either way, if you believe Mirri's "when your womb bears a living child" thing was a legit prophesy and not just her spiteful way of saying "your husband is never coming back lol,"....then berries or no berries, her womb is still cursed. She will either loose the child (one way or another) or die bearing one. There is no third way.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

And again, Dany says, "No blood magic, I accept that Drogo is going to die," then there's no blood magic ritual. I mean hell, Mirri tells her flat out it's not a good idea. So it's Mirri's fault that Dany says, "Nah do it anyway"?

No, It is not. But It's very different to say, "Hey, this is not a good idea." than to say "Hey, just so you know, you're buying a vegetable, and your son's the price." Holding information about a product is a crime in several countries. It's the same as if I say "Hey, I want oranges" and you say "I have them... But It'll be a high price", and I say "Give me", and pay what I think It's the price, only for you to give me rotten oranges, justifying that I only said I wanted Oranges, not how much I'd have to pay for them and how they'd be. It's an act of bad-faith and that's a crime in several countries, besides the fact that, well, It's not oranges, It's lives we are talking about. I'm pretty sure Dany loves Drogo more than I love oranges. (Though that relationship has Stockholm Syndrome written all over it)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

<snip>

Actually Dany reminds me of people who keep falling for telemarketing or email scams — someone who thinks she should be able to get something for nothing, or at least very little. "She can fix Drogo and all I have to do is kill the horse? Sold!" If you don't know which person in the room is the sucker, it's you.

[The Idiots Lantern]

If the girl were not 14, this might be something to hold against her.

When my sister was 14, she was convinced she'd grow up to marry Orlando Bloom. She believed it, because she wanted it to be true. And she had less riding on it then the fate of everyone she loved.

[RoamingRonin]

If the girl were not 14, this might be something to hold against her.

When my sister was 14, she was convinced she'd grow up to marry Orlando Bloom. She believed it, because she wanted it to be true. And she had less riding on it then the fate of everyone she loved.

I don't get why people are so determined to hold it against her.

Dany made some awful decisions that led to Drogo and her unborn child being killed/sacrificed. But Mirri also made choices that led to her own demise. Both women realize they made some pretty horrible decisions at the end.

You win or you die and Mirri totally died.

[Jessica Rogers]

Age doesn't matter in the ASoIaF world that GRRM has built. Robb made a bad decision and paid for it with his life and aren't they around the same age?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't buy the age argument. For one thing, it's not used consistently — poor Dany, only a teenage girl. But Robb and Jon are dumb, aren't they?! Other than a blanket point of, "Maybe teenagers should not be in charge of so many people," I try to avoid the age issue entirely. This is a society where people are considered adults in their mid-teens, girls marry and have kids when they first menstruate, Targaryens have historically married and had children in their teens, a teenager conquered Dorne, pre-teens have been Lord Commanders of the Night's Watch. They train to be assassins and greenseers and they can hold court. These are not "normal" kids and comparing them to real-world people, as if our society has anything close to the mindset of the novels', is an exercise in futility.

I also get the impression that the same people excusing Dany because of her age are the same ones who'd be falling all over themselves praising her as a teenage prodigy if she displayed any actual competency.