Daenerys's Blackest Sin, Will she Suffer for It?

[Le Cygne]

We do not even come close to knowing for sure that it was the berries that caused the miscarriage. A woman in the burning sun for days deprived of proper food and cut off from any kind of medical attention can have a miscarriage for any number of reasons. The berries could be a coicidence.

And either way, if you believe Mirri's "when your womb bears a living child" thing was a legit prophesy and not just her spiteful way of saying "your husband is never coming back lol,"....then berries or no berries, her womb is still cursed. She will either loose the child (one way or another) or die bearing one. There is no third way.

Coincidence? This is fiction. There has to be a point.

Dany cupped her hands to drink. The water made her belly cramp, but cramps were easier to bear than thirst...

Just past midday she came upon a bush growing by the stream, its twisted limbs covered with hard green berries...

An hour later, her stomach began to cramp so badly that she could not go on. She spent the rest of that day retching up green slime...

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler...

When she woke, gasping, her thighs were slick with blood. For a moment she did not realize what it was... Then she saw the pale crescent moon, floating high above the grass, and it came to her that this was no more than her moon blood...

She was bleeding, but it was only woman’s blood. The moon is still a crescent, though. How can that be? She tried to remember the last time she had bled. The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Coincidence? This is fiction. There has to be a point.

Yeah, she's not sick and doesn't start bleeding until after she eats the berries and drinks the water. Granted I'm not a doctor but this isn't exactly rocket science. Even if if it the result of some other form of deprivation and exposure, that still points to a logical reason for her miscarriage besides a curse. Frankly, if her womb were truly "cursed," I'd think she wouldn't even be able to conceive, period.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I don't get why people are so determined to hold it against her.

Because she has things some people are determined to claim for other parties they judge to be more deserving and entitled. And because they WANT to assume the worst. It's easier to rob, debase, and disown a character if she also happens to be a murderous cruel conscious madwoman who's better off under the thumb of someone more competent anyway.

You win or you die and Mirri totally died.

All of the this.

[Jessica Rogers]

I'm not saying your wrong, I just think there it more to it than she just lost her baby from weird fruit and bad water. I think something like this will happen every time she gets pregnant.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Actually Dany reminds me of people who keep falling for telemarketing or email scams — someone who thinks she should be able to get something for nothing, or at least very little. "She can fix Drogo and all I have to do is kill the horse? Sold!" If you don't know which person in the room is the sucker, it's you.

I agree about those people, they're incredibly naive, and she's the kind of person that could actually fall for that, but that doesn't make them any less victims of scams. Or the people behind them acting in bad-faith. I don't even like Dany that much, but I just can't agree that It's entirely her fault. A contract made on false premise, in which a part holds crucial information, constitutes a crime

[The Idiots Lantern]

Coincidence? This is fiction. There has to be a point.

Why? Why does there always have to be a point? Overestimation is just as deadly as underestimation sometimes. And GRRM likes setting you up to expect one thing when he's actually planning to give you something else.

Really though, I think the "mystery" of MMD is destined to probably never be solved, on paper anyway. I'm alright with that. Don't drag the eldrich mysteries into the light if you don't have to. They can rarely stand the scrutiny.

Also, that passage makes it sound like it's the water that starts the cramps, not the berries. That whole chapter is also being narrated by a girl who's delirious with fever and halucinating. Don't take her word at face value.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm not saying your wrong, I just think there it more to it than she just lost her baby from weird fruit and bad water. I think something like this will happen every time she gets pregnant.

If her womb is really cursed, how can she get pregnant in the first place? You're also kind of overlooking the point of free will — this isn't something that just happened to her. It's a cause (eating berries and drinking water) and an effect (miscarriage), linked to her own agency.

I agree about those people, they're incredibly naive, and she's the kind of person that could actually fall for that, but that doesn't make them any less victims of scams. Or the people behind them acting in bad-faith. I don't even like Dany that much, but I just can't agree that It's entirely her fault. A contract made on false premise, in which a part holds crucial information, constitutes a crime

A crime that warrants burning another human being alive?

[Le Cygne]

I'm not saying your wrong, I just think there it more to it than she just lost her baby from weird fruit and bad water. I think something like this will happen every time she gets pregnant.

She'll be wandering the desert thirsty and hungry, and everything is a go even then, she's just thirsty and hungry. But then she drinks/eats bad stuff and has a miscarriage. This is a very unusual circumstance. One might think something an author sets up to show 1) she's fertile/able to carry a pregnancy and 2) it's not a good time for that in the story yet.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I wonder at the people who accuse her of never displaying any "actual competency" because they must have been reading a whole other book, one where no tiny teenage girl without adequate education seizes control of a tribe of sexist rapists, commands dragons, slays sorcerers, deceives merchants, sacks cities, wins battles, leads armies, and rules and wields power in her own name.

Emotional decisions in the heat of the moment when the fate of a loved one hangs in the balance do not lessen her accomplishments, or make her less competent. Her ambition may eclypse her ability...but that's better then when your ability eclypses your accomplishments. In that case, what's the whole point?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

She'll be wandering the desert thirsty and hungry, and everything is a go even then, she's just thirsty and hungry. But then she drinks/eats bad stuff and has a miscarriage. This is a very unusual circumstance. One might think something an author sets up to show 1) she's fertile/able to carry a pregnancy and 2) it's not a good time for that in the story yet.

Ding ding ding. And in typical GRRM, he doesn't come out and say or have her think, "Wow, I was pregnant!" He presents the circumstances we're left to solve it ourselves. Bless him.

[Jessica Rogers]

she could have uterine insufficiency, she could still get pregnant but just not carry them past the first couple weeks. She did give birth to something after all.

I understand the cause and effect of what your saying but I just think for whatever reason she will not have/carry a child in her womb. Ultimate price for being apart of blood magic, the proverbial end of her bloodline.

[Mountain Tribesman]

These Dany haters don't know what else to accuse the poor Queen. Dany was right to burn the witch.

You said it. This place is alive with Dany haters. I do think she made a few mistakes, chief amongst them being the terribly long Meereen section, and some attendant sub-mistakes in that city: marrying that slaver idiot, NOT marrying Quentyn, not annihilating Yunkai when she had the chance...

... but since she's a teenage girl, I'll forgive those mistakes and wish her success. She's a great character.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think Dany was carrying Daario's child and it died in the dothraki sea.

When Dany was talking to Daario earlier in the book a pear dropped from a the tree Daario was under and went to Dany, pear trees represent fertility.

Viserion was also sitting on a pear tree in the book, and there are rumours she is pregnant hence her lazy actions and nest building.

[Minsc]

not annihilating Yunkai when she had the chance...

Are we really complaining that Dany didn't order a massacre of an entire city without real reason?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think Dany was carrying Daario's child and it died in the dothraki sea.

When Dany was talking to Daario earlier in the book a pear dropped from a the tree Daario was under and went to Dany, pear trees represent fertility.

Viserion was also sitting on a pear tree in the book, and there are rumours she is pregnant hence her lazy actions and nest building.

Good catch on the pears.

But yeah — I don't think there was ever anything wrong with Dany's womb, nor is anything wrong with it now. Her miscarriage was the result of food poisoning, bad water, exposure, lack of proper nutrition, stress, or some combination thereof. Not on the list: a curse.

[The Idiots Lantern]

She'll be wandering the desert thirsty and hungry, and everything is a go even then, she's just thirsty and hungry. But then she drinks/eats bad stuff and has a miscarriage. This is a very unusual circumstance.

The fact that she was having cramps before she drank the water (the cramps got worse, meaning they'd already started) or ate the berries implies to me she had already started to miscarry before she ate or drank anything. For what that's worth.

[RoamingRonin]

You said it. This place is alive with Dany haters. I do think she made a few mistakes, chief amongst them being the terribly long Meereen section, and some attendant sub-mistakes in that city: marrying that slaver idiot, NOT marrying Quentyn, not annihilating Yunkai when she had the chance...

... but since she's a teenage girl, I'll forgive those mistakes and wish her success. She's a great character.

It's not that she's a teenage girl. She's an inexperienced ruler making grand, ill-informed decisions with some questionable council. Her intentions are pure but that road to hell is paved with good intentions.

She's flawed but she's powerful as hell. A scary combination, sure, and she should exercise more caution but she's nowhere near the monster people make her out to be.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Are we really complaining that Dany didn't order a massacre of an entire city without real reason?

They are planning to massacre HER. That sounds like a real reason to me.

I'm sure though if she'd done it, people would decry it like they do her crucifixion of those slavers. If she acts, she's psychotic and cruel. If she doesn't, she's weak. She can't win.

[Le Cygne]

The fact that she was having cramps before she drank the water (the cramps got worse, meaning they'd already started) or ate the berries implies to me she had already started to miscarry before she ate or drank anything. For what that's worth.

The cramps happened after she drank the water.

The water made her belly cramp, but cramps were easier to bear than thirst.

[The Idiots Lantern]

The cramps happened after she drank the water.

And yet, somehow, some people are convinced it was the berries? How does that work?