Enlightening essays on Dany and Jon- ADWD (New Jon essay)

[grand old duke of stark]

Excellent essays--very well thought through, explained, and crosss-referenced. Frankly, they sound like the work of a solid academic.

It's interesting that one poster who read other work by the author of the essays says he sees a darker path for her.

In retrospect, I never cared for the Meereen chapters but generally admired how Dany sacrificed so much for the good of the city. The main reason I dislike the Essosi chapters is that I want her in Westeros. We shall see. I'm not 100% in Dany's camp but think she has a chance to be the best choice for Westeros.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I really enjoyed these essays. It's a nice explanation of how Dany's widely-criticized choice NOT to kill the child hostages may have actually been when things started, in fact, to turn around for her in Meereen. If the Green Grace isn't the Harpy, she sure knows who is, and upon learning Dany was "no butcher queen," she may have been able to turn to her friends and say, "we can negotiate with her."

And the use of the dragons as symbolic of her violent and vengeful side is also quite interesting...although I'd take it further and say Dany triumphed over both the metaphorical dragon, when she was able to swallow her pride (and vengeful tendencies) and marry for the sake of ending the bloodshed in Meereen... and the literal dragon, when she faced down Drogon and he surrendered to her.

It's when the power of anger and vengeance are tamed and bent towards a goal that the true magic can happen.

[MoIaF]

Part IV is up now:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iv-a-darker-daenerys/

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Part IV is up now:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iv-a-darker-daenerys/

Amazing that was one of the best Dany essays I have read, feldman10 did an amazing job of breaking down her whole arc and showing where she is heading, I enjoyed reading that and it also show GRRM has built Dany very well and complex, she is in no way a weakly written character.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Part four was, simply, excellent.

Basically, it's a reiteration of what has been said on the forums. Dany now realizes that in order for her to achieve her goals, in order for her to become who she was destined to be, innocents must die. That was truly the aspect of war that had disheartened and depressed Dany, but she now realizes that it is simply a reality of war. She's going to stop being indecisive, and stop trying to suppress her identity and her violent impulses.

However, this new attitude doesn't mean she's going to be a villain, at least IMO. I think Dany will still be more or less the same Dany morally; that is, she will still be incredibly compassionate to those she thinks deserve it, and cruel to those she thinks do not. The difference being that she won't kill herself over the inevitable deaths of innocents.

Daenerys, despite what you might think of her, is one of GRRM's greatest inventions in ASOIAF.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Part four was, simply, excellent.

Basically, it's a reiteration of what has been said on the forums. Dany now realizes that in order for her to achieve her goals, in order for her to become who she was destined to be, innocents must die. That was truly the aspect of war that had disheartened and depressed Dany, but she now realizes that it is simply a reality of war. She's going to stop being indecisive, and stop trying to suppress her identity and her violent impulses.

However, this new attitude doesn't mean she's going to be a villain, at least IMO. I think Dany will still be more or less the same Dany morally; that is, she will still be incredibly compassionate to those she thinks deserve it, and cruel to those she thinks do not. The difference being that she won't kill herself over the inevitable deaths of innocents.

Daenerys, despite what you might think of her, is one of GRRM's greatest inventions in ASOIAF.

Yea I dont think she'll be a villain, she just now understands that in war deaths will always be there.

[MoIaF]

Part four was, simply, excellent.

Basically, it's a reiteration of what has been said on the forums. Dany now realizes that in order for her to achieve her goals, in order for her to become who she was destined to be, innocents must die. That was truly the aspect of war that had disheartened and depressed Dany, but she now realizes that it is simply a reality of war. She's going to stop being indecisive, and stop trying to suppress her identity and her violent impulses.

However, this new attitude doesn't mean she's going to be a villain, at least IMO. I think Dany will still be more or less the same Dany morally; that is, she will still be incredibly compassionate to those she thinks deserve it, and cruel to those she thinks do not. The difference being that she won't kill herself over the inevitable deaths of innocents.

Daenerys, despite what you might think of her, is one of GRRM's greatest inventions in ASOIAF.

Well said, this is also where I believe Dany's arc is headed. I thing it's true of any leader that they eventually come to understand that sometimes we need to sacrifice some for the good of the many. It's why it's so difficult to be a leader, to make those hard decisions.

I don't see Dany loosing her compassion, I'm fact she might now realize that as the "mother" / leader she has to do what it takes to make things right.

I guess Dany had her "kill the girl, and let the woman be born" moment.

[SeanF]

It's a wonderful set of essays. I don't think Dany will ever become the sort of person who'd take delight in seeing the sort of sights she witnessed when the Lhazareen town was sacked, or would specifically order atrocities against those she thinks are innocent. But, I could foresee her witnessing such sights, shrugging, and walking on by. And, perhaps anybody who wants to win the Game of Thrones has to be that sort of person.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

It's a wonderful set of essays. I don't think Dany will ever become the sort of person who'd take delight in seeing the sort of sights she witnessed when the Lhazareen town was sacked, or would specifically order atrocities against those she thinks are innocent. But, I could foresee her witnessing such sights, shrugging, and walking on by. And, perhaps anybody who wants to win the Game of Thrones has to be that sort of person.

Yea afterall "Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely. And Rhaegar died. "

[SeanF]

Well said, this is also where I believe Dany's arc is headed. I thing it's true of any leader that they eventually come to understand that sometimes we need to sacrifice some for the good of the many. It's why it's so difficult to be a leader, to make those hard decisions.

.

I think it's more a case of a leader having to be prepared to sacrifice others to achieve their own ambitions. What Dany has sometimes acknowledged, and sometimes shied away from, is the fact that to achieve her ambitions, innocents must suffer.

[MoIaF]

I think it's more a case of a leader having to be prepared to sacrifice others to achieve their own ambitions. What Dany has sometimes acknowledged, and sometimes shied away from, is the fact that to achieve her ambitions, innocents must suffer.

You are correct, however, to both achieve your ambition or to fight for a greater good innocents will suffer.

I think her coming to Westeron to reclaim the IT will be for ambition, but once she is in Westeros the coming winter will refocus her priorities. So, the lesson that she learned is till important.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I disagree with the assment that she's decided innocents "must" die. A whole mountain of dead innocents doesn't really accomplish anything. And I disagree that her more warlike path is guarented to create more Hezzeas, since, after all, if it wasn't a conspiracy then Hezzea's death was an accident and not part of anyone's design.

I don't think she's ever going to be the person to just shrug off the brutalities of war. What she seems to have become is someone more ruthless about using force to enforce her version of Justice. She won't give up her ideals to placate others anymore. The Dany who'd refuse the kill the children might live, but the one who'd marry and allow the reopening of slave markets probably died in the Dothraki sea.

She needs to remember Aegon the conquerer's trick: he was generous and benevolent to those who bent the knee...and he told those who didn't that their line would end before the day was out. And then kept his word.

[Muggle]

I was on team danny at the start of her story, Then i jumped off that bandwagon when she was in Mereen. But the direction hero story is going i think im ready to jump back on. Im actually looking forward to reading her next few chapters

[RoamingRonin]

Now, the transformation is complete. The Dany we knew at the end of ASOS is gone. The one who reaches Westeros will be a very different person. The dragons are now unchained, and the gloves are off.

Ah, well.

I don't agree that Dany is going full-blown Sith-Lord-Dark-Side, however. What would be the purpose of wanton pillaging and plundering? Even the iron born aren't so wreckless. I think her change of heart is more of a return to her original goal of conquering Westoros. "Fire and blood" are the words of House Targaryen. She set aside her House to a establish a home in Meereen. She chained her dragons for Meereen.

Of course when she lands in Westoros (if she does), there will be a conflict and people will die. I don't get why that's so surprising or sad anymore at this point. The dragons will dance, the Wall will fall, and the Others are gonna Other.

[SeanF]

I disagree with the assment that she's decided innocents "must" die. A whole mountain of dead innocents doesn't really accomplish anything. And I disagree that her more warlike path is guarented to create more Hezzeas, since, after all, if it wasn't a conspiracy then Hezzea's death was an accident and not part of anyone's design.

I don't think she's ever going to be the person to just shrug off the brutalities of war. What she seems to have become is someone more ruthless about using force to enforce her version of Justice. She won't give up her ideals to placate others anymore. The Dany who'd refuse the kill the children might live, but the one who'd marry and allow the reopening of slave markets probably died in the Dothraki sea.

She needs to remember Aegon the conquerer's trick: he was generous and benevolent to those who bent the knee...and he told those who didn't that their line would end before the day was out. And then kept his word.

If she's to win, innocents must die. She doesn't have to order mass executions, but if her armies are to survive, crops and livestock must be taken from the Smallfolk; towns that resist her must be taken by storm, or starved into submission; districts that resist her must be frightened into seeing the error of their ways. The men she commands to do such things will murder, rob, and rape, as they carry out her orders.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Bump, new essay.

[Archmaester]

Absolutely loved all of these essays, thoroughly enjoyable reads, and I'm now genuinely excited to re-read Dany's Dance chapters. I was always intrigued by the Shavepate, and I would actually be disappointed now if it turns out that he didn't poison the locusts. Having Shavepate as the 'Littlefinger of Essos' would certainly go a long way to dispelling the view that Slaver's Bay is full of one-dimensional idiotic villains.

Does anyone know if the first Jon Snow essay has been released yet? Are the next essays going to be on the same site or a different one? (Since they are no longer anything to do with the Meereenese knot).

Would love some essays on The Great Northern Conspiracy and Cersei's Feast chapters next...

[MoIaF]

Does anyone know if the first Jon Snow essay has been released yet? Are the next essays going to be on the same site or a different one? (Since they are no longer anything to do with the Meereenese .

Yes, they'll be on the same blog. He said it in the comment section.

[Archmaester]

Yes, they'll be on the same blog. He said it in the comment section.

Thanks, I'll look forward to them!

[Viserys_The Transformed]

After reading this, i am feeling like a true Dany fan.