"a good man in service to a bad cause"

[Jslay427]

As Ser Kevan Lannister lay dying from Varys crossbow, the eunuch said this to The Lord Regent. A pretty good description of Ser Kevin, if you ask me. Yes, he committed his far share of burning and pillaging at his brother bequest, but all in all Ser Kevan was a pretty stand up guy.

While some may argue that this King or that Kings cause is bad, every faction has those that can be considered less than "grey". Then there are those like Ser Kevan, as well as someone like Steelshanks, who serves Lord Bolton. A man of iron loyalty, as Roose described him. While the man he serves is most certainly "evil" Steelshanks himself is someone I would want on my team. There are many others, anyone else have some favorites?

[thedudex]

One could argue that The hound would have fit that description while employed by the Lannisters. He may not be as "stand-up" of a guy as someone like Ser Kevin, but there is more good guy in the hound than it seems at first.

[Bob Sacamano]

All of Aerys' Kingsguard

[C0bR]

You could add Addam Marbrand to the Lannister side.

[David Selig]

What has Kevan ever done to show he's a good man in any way?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

What has Kevan ever done to show he's a good man in any way?

Likes his wife and family. Oh well, that's probably quite a low standard. Basically, it's PoV bias and his atrocities happened mostly off-camera. But he is barely different from the Mountain or Ser Armory Lorch.

[Dicer]

One could argue that The hound would have fit that description while employed by the Lannisters. He may not be as "stand-up" of a guy as someone like Ser Kevin, but there is more good guy in the hound than it seems at first.

A guy who cuts down and kills a fleeing child in cold blood and then laughs about it? I don't think the Hound would fit the description of a 'good guy'.

Davos comes to mind here. Stannis may have a claim to the throne but he is a hypocrite in many ways and burning people to death is just vile. Davos is truly a good man serving the wrong cause.

[illrede]

Likes his wife and family. Oh well, that's probably quite a low standard. Basically, it's PoV bias and his atrocities happened mostly off-camera. But he is barely different from the Mountain or Ser Armory Lorch.

His last discretionary act in life was to get an urchin in out of the cold.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

His last discretionary act in life was to get an urchin in out of the cold.

Must...resist...urge...to....

Sorry. But a random act of decency in a situation like that is no indication of being a good man. He had no interest in hurting him. So what? Ask the Riverlanders, the Reynes and the Tarbecks what they make of him.

[Nyrhex]

Likes his wife and family. Oh well, that's probably quite a low standard. Basically, it's PoV bias and his atrocities happened mostly off-camera. But he is barely different from the Mountain or Ser Armory Lorch.

I don't remember Kevan being in charge of "foragings". I agree though that he is not a good man in any way that counts though, and it is mosty POV bias speaking when people call him that. Thou let's remember who calls him a good guy - Varys. The man's world view and ability to measur people is so skewed, I doubt if he even knows what that even means.

[Jslay427]

I believe that Ser Kevans chapter shows that he is not a bad man. He feels bad for Cersei having her walk, even though she deserved quite worse, thinks to himself what a good boy Tommen is. Treats his inferiors will respect.

[illrede]

Must...resist...urge...to....

Sorry. But a random act of decency in a situation like that is no indication of being a good man. He had no interest in hurting him. So what? Ask the Riverlanders, the Reynes and the Tarbecks what they make of him.

Prosecuting a cause you despise doesn't make someone an evil man. Thinking that is just normal human bias, which you ought to check for. He participated in a war under Tywin Lannister. Where he is in a position to use his discretion, he shows himself a good man. As Varys put it, "a good man in service to a bad cause".

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Arys

Rodrik

Kevan

Arthur

Gerold

Whent

Barristan (Aerys&Dany)

Daven

[TheSilverMint]

Davos comes to mind here. Stannis may have a claim to the throne but he is a hypocrite in many ways and burning people to death is just vile. Davos is truly a good man serving the wrong cause.

Have to agree with this.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I don't remember Kevan being in charge of "foragings". I agree though that he is not a good man in any way that counts though, and it is mosty POV bias speaking when people call him that. Thou let's remember who calls him a good guy - Varys. The man's world view and ability to measur people is so skewed, I doubt if he even knows what that even means.

Kevan was the one to organise the "foragings". While the Mountain, Lorch and Hoat were the ones leading the murpillapers in the field, he was the one to issue them their orders.

Prosecuting a cause you despise doesn't make someone an evil man. Thinking that is just normal human bias, which you ought to check for. He participated in a war under Tywin Lannister. Where he is in a position to use his discretion, he shows himself a good man. As Varys put it, "a good man in service to a bad cause".

That's called "Nuremberg defense". He didn't despise it as well. Never showed any remorse.

And no, I'm not going to call someone who organised a WoS (especially of his own niece) a good man.

[The Witch King of Braavos]

A guy who cuts down and kills a fleeing child in cold blood and then laughs about it? I don't think the Hound would fit the description of a 'good guy'.

Davos comes to mind here. Stannis may have a claim to the throne but he is a hypocrite in many ways and burning people to death is just vile. Davos is truly a good man serving the wrong cause.

Stannis may be hated in Westeros, but he is a "truly just man" who uses some brutal punishments. Not the wrong cause, the just cause...

You're right about the Hound though, IMO unless he's gone through an epiphany, he is not a good guy.

As for any others, I personally like Steelshanks, but he's not a good guy. Aerys kingsguard definitely.

Kevan is undeniably a loyal, family man, which are good qualities, and though I'm sure he did some bad deeds in the WOT5K, I'd don't recall him being mentioned as committing any atrocities Gregor style. IIRC, he was always kind to Tyrion and generally seemed to try to do the right thing. I agree with Varys.

[Jslay427]

Ser Kevan was also one of the few to give Tyrion any praise at all for his acts during the Blackwater, even if Lancel was giving Kevan BS.

[Nyrhex]

Kevan was the one to organise the "foragings". While the Mountain, Lorch and Hoat were the ones leading the murpillapers in the field, he was the one to issue them their orders.

Forgot about that. Not so much "off screen"... He fucking says it in AGOT...

“Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as

well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red

Fork.”

“They will burn, my lord,” Ser Kevan said, rising. “I shall give the commands.” He bowed and made for the door.

[Jon of the Dead]

Garlan Tyrell

[Jslay427]

Forgot about that. Not so much "off screen"... He fucking says it in AGOT...

Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as

well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red

Fork.

They will burn, my lord, Ser Kevan said, rising. I shall give the commands. He bowed and made for the door.

I believe that's called war, as Tyrion once said.

What was Ser Kevan options? His older brother and Liege Lord had given him a command, and as I recall the northerners did very similar things, I remember it being said that the Greatjon was repaying the Lannisters in kind for their pillaging in the Westerlands. Who have the Greatjon the command do you imagine?