Waking Dragon from Stone: The Reveal of R+L=J

[Fire Eater]

I have complied a theory of when R+L=J will be explicitly revealed in the text, not publicly in ASOIAF, but to the reader.

The reveal will occur after Jon is lying in a coma after the Ides of Marsh. I'd like to thank for Apple for her insight.

I often encounter skepticism when I suggest that the dragon-hatching foreseen in these prophecies will be metaphorical in nature and not literal. The best examples of why I came to this conclusion can be found in the D&E stories, in which dragon visions occur multiple times and refer to human Targaryens.

I've been rereading the three novellas with an eye for possible clues and foreshadowing. The third novella, The Mystery Knight, is a bonanza.

The dragon-hatching imagery around Whitewalls especially is pretty compelling.

Daemon II Blackfyre has a dream of a dragon hatching at Whitewalls. He thinks it's going to be a real dragon -- he's hinging his conquest on it, that when this dragon egg hatches he'll have the power to be king -- but it's not a real dragon, it's Egg, coming of age.

Whitewalls is obviously so-named because it's, uh, white. There's also this nifty line: "It almost looks as if it's made of snow."

A metaphorical dragon hatching amongst snow-white walls, and Aemon has already compared Jon to Aegon in the main series. "It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born."

Not only do I take this as strong foreshadowing of what will become of Jon at the Wall, I also think it's a warning of sorts against taking any dragon-hatching prophecies too literally, both within the story itself and outside the story where readers are concerned.

Near the end of the novella, Dunk reflects on the now-captured Daemon and thinks that he "dreamed of dragons hatching from stone eggs."

The "hatching from stone" parallel is right there, and it's not a real dragon.

The raven was pecking at an egg, breaking the shell.

This might be reaching, but this could be a reference to BR helping to break Jon's shell, or his false identity as Jon Snow, Ned's son, which was used to hide his Targaryen identity to protect him just as Aegon's alias, Egg, was used to hide his true Targaryen identity. BR breaks the shell to hatch the dragon inside the egg, or uncover Jon's identity as a Targaryen.

"And he is mine [stannis] own blood."

"Your brother's blood," Melisandre said. "A king's blood. Only a king's blood can wake the stone dragon.

Blood, like the way Stannis had used, is used interchangeably with family and relations. It can be taken as a clue that a king's blood, or king's relative, can wake the stone dragon. Bran is blood to kings Robb and Jon, and BR is also blood to kings, from Aegon IV to Jon. Bran and Bloodraven will wake the stone dragon.

"Do you ever find anyone in your dream?" Sam asked.
Jon shook his head. "No one. The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It’s black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don’t want to. I’m afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it’s not them I’m afraid of. I scream that I’m not a Stark, that this isn’t my place, but it’s no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. "That’s when I always wake.

The mention of dreams reminded him [bran]. “I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”
“And why was that?” Luwin peered through his tube.
“It was something to do about Jon, I think.” The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.

When the time comes, I [Ned] will tell him myself.

Jon will go down into the crypts in his dream, and find Ned there like Bran did. It will be an image/apparition of Ned, whether or not this is Ned's ghost will be left ambiguous. Ned will tell Jon the truth of his parentage, in a bit of a reference to Arthur being told his royal heritage by his foster father, Sir Ector.

Can I [Jaime] forget someone I never knew? The words caught in his throat he did know her, but it had been so long

Jaime asks himself this upon seeing his mother in this dream. I think the same thing will happen with Jon in that when he sees his mother, Lyanna, although he never knew her, he does know deep inside who she really is.

Wake dragons from stone

[syrio:] Still as stone

I'd like to thank Alia of the knife in providing that "waking the dragon" is a likely reference to Dune with "Without change something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken."

"The sleeper must awaken" means a truth realized as well as someone having changed. Jon is in a coma, or still as stone, after the Ides of Marsh, and waking the dragon from stone could mean Jon uncovering the truth of his heritage, that he is a Targaryen. After he wakes from his coma, he will have changed from Lord Snow to Jon Targaryen.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

:bowdown:

[Jessica Rogers]

I have one question, and that I think is the question that keeps me from really committing to R+L=J

when he wakes up from this coma with the knowledge that he is a targ, who is going to believe him or how is he going to convince or prove to people that he is a Targ?

Because for all intents and purposes, he's a Stark, he says he's not, but he looks like one,he act's like one and technically speaking he is the heir to the KitN

Also, no one from the ToJ are alive to verify the story except the elusive Howland Reed but from what I gather from the books the Crannogmen are not the most respected bunch in the north. So even if he does show up to back up Jon's story who is going to believe this story?

[Fire Eater]

I have one question, and that I think is the question that keeps me from really committing to R+L=J

when he wakes up from this coma with the knowledge that he is a targ, who is going to believe him or how is he going to convince or prove to people that he is a Targ?

Because for all intents and purposes, he's a Stark, he says he's not, but he looks like one,he act's like one and technically speaking he is the heir to the KitN

Also, no one from the ToJ are alive to verify the story except the elusive Howland Reed but from what I gather from the books the Crannogmen are not the most respected bunch in the north. So even if he does show up to back up Jon's story who is going to believe this story?

That's a theory I have in another thread.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The raven pecking the egg is interesting, especially because it's Bloodraven who points out that the dragon of Whitewalls is Egg. And I've said before that the stone dragon being awoken could very well be a dormant Targaryen identity being uncovered.

I go back and forth between what's down in the crypts, whether it's a literal piece of proof of Jon's parentage or something a little more abstract. Jon's tracking a pretty standard Campbellian hero's journey, and he's at the point now where he dies, descends into the underworld (which could easily be symbolized by the crypts) and returns with his boon. The catabasis. This boon need not be tangible; it can just be a piece of information or some scrap of wisdom necessary for Jon to move forward. At this point in the story it wouldn't surprise me if this boon is Jon learning of his parentage, through whatever inputs Bloodraven can concoct. There's even a crackpot that Bloodraven is ultimately behind the Ides of Marsh for that very reason: Just as Bran needed to fall and be in a coma to tap into his latent abilities and see those visions, perhaps Jon needs trauma of his own.

[Ser Creighton]

Love the use of the egg parallel from that scene. Though as another comparison you can add the raven chipping away at Brans chains to wake him. And also I would not forget the egg dripping from the Ravens beak. Just a suggestion though, but you could probably tie them to your theory if you want, or not. Just a though, it might add a little support to the birds actions, not that you need it. But I never saw anything wrong with extra support.

[Ser Creighton]

On a side note the first time we meet Vary's he is referred to as an egg. Chapter 18 Thrones.

Dany is referred to as a moon and the moon is referred to as a dragons egg. Chapter 23 thrones.

And of course chapter 70 thrones. It's 3 eggs interesting enough as the dragon has 3 heads. The scene occurs after Jons moonlight ride according to Mormont. Then of course the raven pecking away at the shell, to get at what is inside and then of course the comment about the yolk dripping from it's beak as it says Ben Jen.

Of course in chapter 7 of Dance Aemon makes a direct comparison to Jon and Egg. Aemon practically saying Jon is a Targaryen with an overwhelming comparison. I mean a really blatant comparison, not just about killing the boy to wake the man, but the entire scene touching his face, telling he must rise like Aegon did, that Jon is needed because winter is coming.

Martin also repeatedly uses 3 eggs around Jon.

Finally chapter 3 Dance with dragons. Jons first chapter in the books. Jon has a rather disturbing dream about Ghost and his last name, with the moon which has been referred to as a dragoons eggs using Jon's last name. Jon is woken by the raven and the dream is foreboding. Edd comes in and makes a comment about 3 corns and 1 roast raven. You don't have to follow any of my theories by the way to apply Martins motif of death and three, which is the opening Motif of the series as the 3 rangers are killed. Anyway Ed basically says it's eggs on the menue. Three Motifs play out in 3 corns and one roast raven. Martins use of 3 and death and, Crows and ravens being synonymous in the books, and fire. As we have seen another Targaryen was reborn through fire. So death by 3, 3 daggers and rebirth by fire, and that is quickly tied to eggs. Jon also makes an intresting comment in the chapter about the Raven using him as a thrall or that he is not the ravens thrall.

Hope some of this helps, feel free to use whatever you like for support, or not. At the very least you have a few chapters you can draw more info from if you want. And it's not all that hard to draw a comparison from eggs, the moon, Targaryens and Dragons.

ETA 2 other comments of note are off handed remarks by Mormont to Jon. On is about Jon and a magic sword and another is when he asks Jon if he has a flying horse and states the watch could use a horse like that. However another name for a horse you ride is a mount. A flying mount the watch could use.

[shk12344]

This is excerpt from Jon's POV from Daces with Dragons where Maester Aemon overhears Queen's men talking,

"Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die King"

I'm haven't got a clue who these "TWO KINGS" refers to??

Anyone have any idea??

[King of Winters]

This is excerpt from Jon's POV from Daces with Dragons where Maester Aemon overhears Queen's men talking,

"Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die King"

I'm haven't got a clue who these "TWO KINGS" refers to??

Anyone have any idea??

People think that the two Kings are Aerys and Aegon. Jon was born within a month of the Sack. Aerys was killed and because Rhaegar was dead, that would make Aegon the next King of Westeros briefly after Aerys' death. So that's two Kings for Jon.

[Adara]

This is excerpt from Jon's POV from Daces with Dragons where Maester Aemon overhears Queen's men talking,

"Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die King"

I'm haven't got a clue who these "TWO KINGS" refers to??

Anyone have any idea??

I think it's about the King beyond the wall and his Son. So Mance going to the fire would make his son King. (which is of course wrong, but the Queen's men don't care about Freefolk traditions)

[Ser Creighton]

This is excerpt from Jon's POV from Daces with Dragons where Maester Aemon overhears Queen's men talking,

"Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die King"

I'm haven't got a clue who these "TWO KINGS" refers to??

Anyone have any idea??

It's Jon who over hears this and tries to pass it off as a fevered dream

[shk12344]

People think that the two Kings are Aerys and Aegon. Jon was born within a month of the Sack. Aerys was killed and because Rhaegar was dead, that would make Aegon the next King of Westeros briefly after Aerys' death. So that's two Kings for Jon.

But I don't know how that relates to "waking of dragon (Jon Snow)" It would make more sense if it was "birth of dragon". To me the two kings (Father and Son both die as a King) has to relate to the act of "waking the dragon"

I bring this up, because Fireeater suggest Bran/Bloodraven will help awaken Jon Snow to his Targ's root. so I wonder how the statement that came from Jon's POV relates to what Fireeater said.

[Robin the Mighty]

:bowdown: :agree:

[Fire Eater]

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

As I have mentioned before in other posts, the blue rose is traditionally associated with royal blood. The blue rose is also a hint to Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship with Rhaegar planting the crown of blue roses in Lyanna's lap, near her womb. The blue rose growing from the wall could mean the reveal of the identity Rhaegar and Lyanna's son.

As Newstar pointed out in another thread, sweetness has a negative connotation, and in this case Jon will be comatose with the situation having gone to hell with the Ides of Marsh and fighting between wildlings and NW men. I also doubt that he will react to the truth of his heritage in a positive light.

[WeaselPie]

Jon is Aegon. This adds a lot to my own theories. And Jon is the three-eyed crow. He and Bran will make contact during Jon's quasi-death.

[J. Stargaryen]

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

As I have mentioned before in other posts, the blue rose is traditionally associated with royal blood. The blue rose is also a hint to Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship with Rhaegar planting the crown of blue roses in Lyanna's lap, near her womb. The blue rose growing from the wall could mean the reveal of the identity Rhaegar and Lyanna's son.

As Newstar pointed out in another thread, sweetness has a negative connotation, and in this case Jon will be comatose with the situation having gone to hell with the Ides of Marsh and fighting between wildlings and NW men. I also doubt that he will react to the truth of his heritage in a positive light.

The blue winter roses, which symbolize Jon Snow's true identity, appear in Winterfell crypt scenes on a few occasions.

Ned thinks of Lyanna in the ToJ when he and Robert visit the crypts in Eddard I:

“I was with her when she died,” Ned reminded the king. “She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father.” He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. “I bring her flowers when I can,” he said. “Lyanna was... fond of flowers.”

So, in the crypts we are introduced to Jon's mother.

Eddard XIII:

He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. “Promise me, Ned, “ Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.

So here we have Lyanna's statue wearing a crown of winter roses. Again, the roses symbolize Jon's true identity, and this symbolism is occurring in the crypts.

My initial take on her statue crying tears of the blood was that it indicated a form of the stigmata. And that still might be it, but then I remembered that weirwood trees, which are linked to the Old Gods, appear to cry tears of blood. This might indicate that R&L were married in front of a heart tree, or that Jon's parentage will be discovered or relayed to him via the weirnet.

ACoK, Theon XI:

But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna. Her brother Brandon stood beside her, and their father Lord Rickard just behind. Along the walls figures halfseen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife. And then the tall doors opened with a crash, and a freezing gale blew down the hall, and Robb came walking out of the night. Grey Wind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds.

Though this is not in the crypts, the scene does make mention of them: "... faces he had only seen in stone." At the end of this dream of a feast with the dead Theon is imparted with some future knowledge regarding Robb and Grey Wind. And the idea of the dead imparting knowledge through a dream or unconscious state ties in quite well with the OP.

I think that Lyanna's white gown indicates a wedding dress, though it could be more than that or even something different. The association between white and innocence could suggest that she was a necessary "sacrifice" for Jon to be born, savior that he is or might be.

Then there is the Bael the Bard story, which probably intertwines foreshadowing for both Jon and Sansa and possibly even others. Since the focus is on Jon here, I'll just note the parallel between a Stark girl hiding with her child in the crypts vs. the truth of Jon's identity being hidden with his mother in the crypts. The latter could be a real, physical object, some sort of knowledge or both, as per Apple's post up thread:

I go back and forth between what's down in the crypts, whether it's a literal piece of proof of Jon's parentage or something a little more abstract. Jon's tracking a pretty standard Campbellian hero's journey, and he's at the point now where he dies, descends into the underworld (which could easily be symbolized by the crypts) and returns with his boon. The catabasis. This boon need not be tangible; it can just be a piece of information or some scrap of wisdom necessary for Jon to move forward. At this point in the story it wouldn't surprise me if this boon is Jon learning of his parentage, through whatever inputs Bloodraven can concoct. There's even a crackpot that Bloodraven is ultimately behind the Ides of Marsh for that very reason: Just as Bran needed to fall and be in a coma to tap into his latent abilities and see those visions, perhaps Jon needs trauma of his own.

[JPJK79]

I have always felt the waking the dragon from stone will be Jon finding out about his Targ heritage. And nothing to do with where a person was born. (aka Dragonstone).

I will say I disagree on sweetness as a negative in the case of the Undying scene, but there is more that needs to be seen on that. I believe the sweetness will happen when Jon resurrects.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I have always felt the waking the dragon from stone will be Jon finding out about his Targ heritage. And nothing to do with where a person was born. (aka Dragonstone).

I will say I disagree on sweetness as a negative in the case of the Undying scene, but there is more that needs to be seen on that. I believe the sweetness will happen when Jon resurrects.

This thread goes into the sweetness thing more. It is never good thing.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96024-sweetness-as-a-negative-in-asoiaf-the-blue-flower-in-the-wall-of-ice-and-danys-future/

[JPJK79]

This thread goes into the sweetness thing more. It is never good thing.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96024-sweetness-as-a-negative-in-asoiaf-the-blue-flower-in-the-wall-of-ice-and-danys-future/

I have read that theory/thread before. I am just trying to figure out Jon's resurrection could be a negative. Unless of course he turns out to be a white walker or worse. Or unless Dany just sees him as an enemy no matter what and be a negative to her.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I have read that theory/thread before. I am just trying to figure out Jon's resurrection could be a negative. Unless of course he turns out to be a white walker or worse. Or unless Dany just sees him as an enemy no matter what and be a negative to her.

It's not that it's a negative in and of itself, just that he will be in opposition to Dany, because the vision is from her perspective.