The Might of Skagos

[GallowsKnight]

I think there is something supernatural about Skagosi.If they were wargs or greenseers or whatever gifts Old gods give to men then it is possible for them to put up a good fight against Starks other way it is insane to rebel against a 30k(at least) army.

A Skagosi rebellion could easily cause problems along this manners.

Skagosi declare themselves independent, most of the North is bemused or doesn't care.

Skagosi raid the crap out of the North-east. Only has to be parties of several hundred.

A small northern force, not particularly large due to travel issues, maybe 10,000 at most invades Skagosi.

The Skagosi use both guerilla tactics to harass the Northerners.

Then they briefly mobilize a huge percentage of the population to outnumber and beat the Northerners.

An even larger force of Northerners returns and re-conquers them and take hostages.

That wouldn't need any magic powers.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I'd venture a guess at about 2,500. Or at least, that is the number that Osha and Davos will be able to convince the relevant authorities to commit to the war effort.

It remains to be seen how effective they will be in battle. The fact that they successfully rebelled for a number of years (killing starks in the process) suggest that the Skagosi are well practiced in guerilla warfare. However, whether that competence can be transferred to an attacking campaign on foreign ground remains to be seen.

That said, I think there may be something on Skagos that is going to help the war effort against the Others in some way. I don't know quite what yet, but I'm convinced they didn't simply rebel over something as trivial as taxes or the like.

But seriously, you know what Rickon will REALLY find on Skagos?

.....

....wait for it....

....his....

....grandmother

Nope.

[Duranaparthur]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Skagossi's biggest logistical problem with fielding whatever force they have has to do with their type of sailing. While I presume they have some kind of naval power, being an island and all, we haven't heard of them as major merchants and long time sailors seem to regard them with unease and suspicion. So we're probably not looking at quite an Ironborn type of lifestyle. We have legends of them raiding Skane and all, but either they were crippled by Winterfell or just were never quite a major sea power. So probably the biggest reason we can't see any kind of Skagossi elements to Robb's attack is because they simply couldn't get there in time. Whether it's 1,000 men or 6,000 men, if the only ships you have are small fishing ones you can't transport an army. And it's entirely possible that as far as Winterfell in concerned, skagos needs only pay homage when it's practicable provided they don't cause trouble.

Though the fact that Osha wants to take Rickon there implies there's some kind of Wilding connections to the island.

[Frey Pie]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Skagossi's biggest logistical problem with fielding whatever force they have has to do with their type of sailing. While I presume they have some kind of naval power, being an island and all, we haven't heard of them as major merchants and long time sailors seem to regard them with unease and suspicion. So we're probably not looking at quite an Ironborn type of lifestyle. We have legends of them raiding Skane and all, but either they were crippled by Winterfell or just were never quite a major sea power. So probably the biggest reason we can't see any kind of Skagossi elements to Robb's attack is because they simply couldn't get there in time. Whether it's 1,000 men or 6,000 men, if the only ships you have are small fishing ones you can't transport an army. And it's entirely possible that as far as Winterfell in concerned, skagos needs only pay homage when it's practicable provided they don't cause trouble.

Though the fact that Osha wants to take Rickon there implies there's some kind of Wilding connections to the island.

Pretty realistic thoughts in my opinion. They likely have a shed load of smaller fishing vessels and a few longboat like craft.

However, with Rickon and Davos there, Manderly might find a good use for his 50 or so warships-transportation. Skaagos is a fairly huge island so I would think 2000 at the least and possibly as far as 4-5000 men and women of a quality like the Wildlings, good for snow and guerilla but not holding a line

[SkaggCannibal]

On defence there probably are a lot more warriors available than when they go off their island. On the island, they probably can get up to 5000. Going on the mainland I doubt it would be higher than 3000. My gues is Rickon will bring some 2000 warriors, max. Unless they have to leave their island to get away from Others of course.

They probably also don't have that many ships themselves.

[Lord Stark]

I honestly don't see Skagos having more then 2000 men. The island is much smaller then the territory of the North Mountain Clans. The lands of the Northern Mountain Clans seems almost double the size in fact. The Northern Mountain Clans gathered 4 thousand men, although it is winter, and many old men are likely in this host to die as warriors instead of going out hunting during the heart of winter. Umber, and Karstark lands are also much larger, and yet we don't hear about more then 3000 troops mustered from them.

The Skagos, means stone in the Old Tongue, and the Skagos call themselves the Skagosi, which means Stoneborn. Skagos as an island looks rather rocky, and full of mountains. The seas around the island are harsh, we already see some ships crashed into it. Skane hasn't had people on it since ancient times, which seems odd if Skagos could support a large population. We have no mention of a fleet, you would think that if there was one, the Night's Watch might know of it, and request help from them. All these things make me question how strong they are on their own. I'd be surprised if they had more then 2000 fighting men, and see 1500 as more likely.

Yes the Skagos rebelled against the Starks, although it was against the Starks in a time of chaos. We have in recent history so many wars going on, that it is not a surprise that they could rebel. Wildling attacks, Ironborn raids, polictal issues at Winterfell, death of countless lords of Winterfell already, wars in the south. Who knows what else. We have no idea if this Lord Stark was a new Stark lord, or an old Stark lord, no idea how much power he had, if the other lords liked him, or not. For all we know this could have been a time when the Skagosi thought the Starks wouldn't put up a fight. Further we know the Starks themselves have no fleet, so ferrying over troops for war on a mountain island is almost impossible. The island itself is full of mountains and hills, perfect for defence. Most of all though, we are told a Lord Stark lost his life, and hundreds of his men. Key word there is hundreds. Doesn;t sound like a large force was sent, and that more then likely this Lord Stark was killed in a surprise battle or something.

So all in all, I don't see them as a powerful faction within the north, but with their strength added to one of the other factions, such as Manderly, and with the last known male Stark alive in their control, they can prove to be powerful allies, and a wild card. I also believe the Skagosi rebellion was settled with a Stark Marriage, as sometimes these things are, and that the Skagosi, once rebels, will be more likely to be loyal to one they might consider, one of them, and Rickon is the perfect one, he is the wild one.

[TormundHasAlreadyWon]

1-2k, but Unicorn Cavalry is at least 5x as effective as normal horse cavalry.

This!

[MasterJack]

The might of skakos is as these stupid ghosts in Lord of the ring, nobody heard anything about them since the beginning of the story then a king will go to seek them out and then they will win the war(a war that isnt theirs btw) by themself.

[George W. Lannister]

Not sure if a fighting force will be coming over with Rickon and Davos, but if they do there are two competitive advantages to having them:

1) Hardened to the cold climate. With Winter a-comin', the human race needs some thick-skinned yokels with the ability to fight the Others in incredibly difficult environs. They're like South Carolinians during the Revolutionary War!

2) (crackpot) Being a mountainous island with limited technological advances, any natural abundance of obsidian would leave Skagosi to unconsciously carry weapons of dragonglass. There's your answer to the logistics of large scale battles with the Others!

Anyways, back to the main topic -- yes it's a large island, but I can't imagine it holding over 20,000 people due to the geography. Any comparisons to Umber lands due to similar latitude should be thrown out-it's apples and oranges because of the mountainous setup.

I say 2500 to 3500 ideal "fighters", with an additional 2000 green boys or old men.

[OutlawSarge]

Boy, those Lannisters sure are lucky that Robb left like 3/4ths of the North's strength behind when he marched south, huh? Between the Skagosi and the mountain clans Robb's host probably could have outnumbered Joffrey's 3 to 1!

really, and if I am calling my banner I might want to take the crazy cannibals as well as my half wilding half mountain men with me. Both groups appear to be even crazy but smaller Umbers. I will however allow this if and when the North Rises.

[Duranaparthur]

I think it might be implied the North is the most culturally diverse of the Seven Kingdoms, which might explain why Rob would have to leave troops behind. The Westerlands are controlled by the iron fist of the Lannisters and seem to be pretty homogeneous, and I'm kind of taking it for granted that Tywin left enough troops behind to defend his home should anyone get any bright ideas. I also don't think anyone was quite thinking of absolute wars of attrition when the War of the Five Kings got started, except possibly the Tyrells, since their clearly playing the part of the Lannisters-In-Roberts-Rebellion and hoping I come down with such crushing power on the winning side that no one doubts their power.

But the North clearly seems like the area with almost completely different cultures. They seem to respect the Faith of the Seven in White Harbor and other areas without complaining, while simultaneously managing Bear Island's Amazon-style gender revolutions, the Mountain Clans basically sound like an entire Scottish subregion that's still politically undeveloped and decentralized, the Neck has their whole "born on the bayou" thing going on with bit of pygmy-stereotypes thrown in as well, and finally you have Skagos. I think the North does command a larger population than the Westerlands, but thanks to winter, their low density, and the diversification of their people, they could almost never field an army proportional to their size. The Reach has better weather, better harvests and what looks to be a homogenous culture as well, so they get to be the horde no one can stand against, the Westerlands and Dorne are smaller, less well supplied versions of the same rule, and since the North is so vast, a small contingent of Iron Born can wreak havoc once the main centralized powers are gone.

Now what I'm curious about is what type of armament the Skagossi have. Are they relatively rough and tumble like the Mountain clans, with extreme variety in weaponry? Are the kind of like the Wildlings, with fewer steel weapons and more iron arsenals? Are they just smaller version of the main Northern forces with only giant unicorn-goat cavalry? What?

[TheRainingKnight]

Like the Iron Island , people who will be drafted into armies are not just men in their prime ages, they will have a full roster from young boys to old men, perhaps women to like the wildlings...

[Pecan]

I don't expect much of Skagos. A Population of 100K or more is possible, over such a large area, but it's likely the people are very dispersed and live a very spare, subsistence-level existence where survival itself is a daily struggle. Most people probably survive by fishing and hunting and farming and raising livestock. There are probably a few villages, but I doubt there's any sort of a "town" as exists on the mainland. Weapons are likely to be primitive as there are likely very few skilled metalworkers on the island. As for government and laws, it's likely that most matters are handled via tribal or clan traditions. The three Skagosi "Houses" that we know about aren't likely to be anything like Lordly Houses on the mainland.

[Winterfell Resident]

White Harbor has built about 60 warships so far which no one knows about. And they are building more as we speak. This was all being done in secret based on the message that was given to Wyman Manderly from Ned Stark through Catelyn Stark.

[Duranaparthur]

The three houses on Skagos each have a definite seat and some kind of fortification, apparently, and Magnar takes holds Kingshouse, which taken with their name suggest a parallel to the Thenns in terms of advancement and culture. We also have Sam saying they rode unicorns into battle, most likely on their home turf, so a rough cavalry, most likely light, would also be at their disposal. And one of th candidates for Night's King was a Magnar, so at one point the stone-born must have had major interactions with the North.

So the might of Skagos should be at least early Iron Age, especially if their keeps are more like the old hill forts or in the case of Deep Down those civilization in the Orkneys. Even if they only have an understanding of bronze, being subject to Winterfell would alsmot assuredly mean a few of their warriors could afford some metal work.

And the unicorn helm the Night's Watch receives from a Wldling implies some kind of cultural exchange. Maybe they're the ones who wiped out Hardhome? It would fit their M.O. from Skane.