And the price for the most useless prophecy goes to...

[Ser Greg of House House]

That's actually why so many people don't think Quaithe is actually trying to help Dany.

This.

It's not so much a prophecy as it is "advice". Quaithe certainly knows something, but who's to say she's not manipulating Dany? If anything her 'you must pass beneath the shadow' thing sounds like she wants Dany to go to Ashaii. Maybe her friends there want the dragons? Who knows.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

This.

It's not so much a prophecy as it is "advice". Quaithe certainly knows something, but who's to say she's not manipulating Dany? If anything her 'you must pass beneath the shadow' thing sounds like she wants Dany to go to Ashaii. Maybe her friends there want the dragons? Who knows.

I dont think beneath the shadow means Asshai, I think it means beneath the mother of mountains and the truth is that she will find out she is TSTWMTW

[Northernmonkey]

What's not to trust in Quentyn?

Well he released her dragons and is a complete idiot for thinking he could ride them. Quaithe was right to warn Dany about him.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

The reason why Quaithe says Dany shouldn't trust them is because if she never had dragons none of them would come to her, they all want her for their purposes not hers.

Vic- to marry her and ironborn conquer the seven kingdoms

Tyrion- to get CR aand revenge on cersei

Quentyn to marry her for dragons

Aegon- to marry her for dragons

Moqqoro - For her to worship Rhollor and be their saviour

Its also interesting that Quaithe knows Aegon is fake that means she has been watching events for a long time like BR.

[Ser Greg of House House]

The reason why Quaithe says Dany shouldn't trust them is because if she never had dragons none of them would come to her, they all want her for their purposes not hers.

Vic- to marry her and ironborn conquer the seven kingdoms

Tyrion- to get CR aand revenge on cersei

Quentyn to marry her for dragons

Aegon- to marry her for dragons

Moqqoro - For her to worship Rhollor and be their saviour

Its also interesting that Quaithe knows Aegon is fake that means she has been watching events for a long time like BR.

Well, great advice then. Hey, Dany, don't establish any alliances unless the other party is in it because they fully believe you're a god in human form and need nothing from you.

[Myk Lonmouth]

Aren't all prophecies useless by nature anyway? I mean if you manage to use the knowledge to successfully avoid what happens then the prophecy is wrong in which case the person who could see the future wouldn't see it happening and the person trying to avoid the prophecy coming true would no longer believe in them either. Or they try to avoid the prophecy, fail and it comes true anyway in which case knowing about it has made absolutely no difference whatsoever. Am I making sense here?!

Yes indeed. I could have sworn Martin said something similar in an interview I read but cannot seem to find it. The only thing I did find in a quick search was the following interview:

Another curious thing of your books is that you give us a lot of hints through the Red God flames, the words of the Ghost of the High Heart or through the visions of the House of the Undying…

[Laughs] Well, are they spoilers? You have to look them very carefully to figure out what they mean. Not all of them mean what they seem to mean...

Surely the plot is very unpredictable despite all the prophecies you give to help us...

[Laughs] Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy... In the Wars of the Roses, that you mentioned, there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle and he was superstitious at that sort of walls, so he never came anyway near that castle. He stayed thousands of leagues away from that particular castle because of the prophecy. However, he was killed in the first battle of St. Paul de Vence and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle! [Laughs] So you know? That’s the way prophecies come true in unexpected ways. The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true, and I make a little fun with that.

So you always want to frustrate our expectations, am I right?

Yes, it was always my intention: to play with the reader’s expectations. Before I was a writer I was a voracious reader and I am still, and I have read many, many books with very predictable plots. As a reader, what I seek is a book that delights and surprises me. I want to not know what is gonna happen. For me, that’s the essence of storytelling and for this reason I want my readers to turn the pages with increasing fever: to know what happens next. There are a lot of expectations, mainly in the fantasy genre, which you have the hero and he is the chosen one, and he is always protected by his destiny. I didn’t want it for my books.

Some of that lends credence to something else I just read about how Danny's three treasons she will know may be her own treasons she is committing. I just read that here: http://smokeandstir.org/2012/02/09/prophecy-in-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/

Intriguingly, Dany’s own actions convincingly fit into the prophecy’s framework of treason. Let’s start with the “once for gold.” It’s hard to say Dany’s acceptance of her brother’s killing fall outside the definition of treason. Though it’s arguable that Dany was powerless to prevent Visery’s death, she likely could have made it less gruesome: we know that Dothraki society allows for strangulation within Vaes Dothrak, a death certainly more merciful than a crown of molten gold. However, Dany didn’t attempt to influence Khal Drogo away from executing Visery in the most graphic (and poetic) way possible. On some level this is attributable to Daenerys’ justifiable hatred towards her abusive older brother. But it’s also because she didn’t want to risk he position of increasing influence in Dothraki society by showing any mercy to her errant brother, mercy the Dothraki would view with disdain. Dany had already began thinking about leading Khal Drogo’s forces across the narrow sea and into Westeros. While it’s possible that she could have made Viserys’ necessary death easier, Daenerys wasn’t prepared to risk her army. Fittingly, this indifference can be seen as the “once for gold.”

The next treason — “once for love’ — also fits into this framework. For much of A Dance With Dragons Daenerys keeps her dragons locked up in Meereen. She has a good reason for doing so — the dragons are getting big enough that they begin hunting humans. Her increasingly uncontrollable dragons place her in an impossible position: either she locks up the dragons, or they will continue killing children. Her decision is especially interesting because Dany repeatedly and explicitly refers to both her dragons and the people who flock to her as “my children”. Either way she’s forced to betray her own children. Daenerys’ love for her followers and the underclass of Meereen forces her to betray her dragons, the source of all her power. This is the treason for love.

The last treason — the “once for blood” — almost certainly hasn’t happened yet. It’s possible that Visery’s death fits this description, but this is a stretch; Dany arguably allowed Viserys to die horribly out of a desire for ‘blood’ — war in Westeros — but this doesn’t seem likely. It’s a safer bet that one aspect of the prophecy hasn’t been fulfilled yet. After all, we still have 2,000 pages of ASoIaF, and it doesn’t make much sense from a narrative perspective for Dany to commit all of the prophecy’s predicted treason without realizing it. What I think is more likely is a climactic realization by Dany that she isn’t perfect, and that in becoming an instrument of destruction she’s hurt real people. This would fit nicely into the books’ themes. I’ve always though one of ASoIaF’s most interesting themes is the illegitimacy of power through anything but violence. Dany always talks about her ‘right’ to the throne. However, in a world governed by violence rights are transient. Daenerys has no more right to the Iron Throne than Robert, Cersei, or any of the other pretenders — just because her ancestors conquered Westeros 300 years before the Baratheons doesn’t make the Targaryens any more legitimate than the Andals, First Men, or anyone else. Power flows from the barrel of a gun. Only when Dany conquers Westeros does she have the ‘right’ to rule anything.

A Dance With Dragons sets the stage for this realization. By the book’s close Aegon Targaryn is in direct competition with Dany for the throne. It’s possible that he’s a pretender engineered by Varys and Illyrio as a backup in case their primary instrument of a Targaryen restoration — the unreliable Viserys — didn’t work out. However, Aegon’s legitimacy doesn’t really matter. If he wins the throne it’s his, not Dany’s. It’s possible that this conflict will be resolved through a Daenerys/Aegon (aunt and nephew…) marriage, but again this seems unlikely: Dany’s awful marital experiences, paranoia and deep belief that the Iron Throne is her’s and her’s alone make it unlikely that she will consent to share power with a nephew she’s never known existed. This sets up for a potentially fatal conflict between Daenerys and Aegon, one that could end with his death. This would be one of the most climactic “treasons for blood” imaginable, and one suited for the realization that Dany is as much of a monster as her enemies. For a series that dwells on themes of destructive self-deception, this would be a fitting development for a character we’ve been encouraged to like. George R.R. Martin delights in destroying fantasy tropes. Jon’s failures as Lord Commander have shown that command is no guarantee of righteousness or even legitimacy. It would be poetically just for Daenerys — the fire to Jon’s ice — to experience same realization, and suffer for it.

Also just two quotes about prophecy from the books just because lol

"Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is . . . and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time." - Marwyn, A Feast for Crows

"Prophecy is like a half-trained mule.... It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head." - Tyrion Lannister, A Dance with Dragons

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Well, great advice then. Hey, Dany, don't establish any alliances unless the other party is in it because they fully believe you're a god in human form and need nothing from you.

Well my point is all those people and many around her, if they got the dragons they wouldn't give a shit about a Dany.

[Ser Greg of House House]

[Laughs] Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy... In the Wars of the Roses, that you mentioned, there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle and he was superstitious at that sort of walls, so he never came anyway near that castle. He stayed thousands of leagues away from that particular castle because of the prophecy. However, he was killed in the first battle of St. Paul de Vence and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle! [Laughs] So you know? That’s the way prophecies come true in unexpected ways. The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true, and I make a little fun with that.

That's really cool. It screams "Cersei". Not that we didn't expect it, but it makes it even more clear.

Well my point is all those people and many around her, if they got the dragons they wouldn't give a shit about a Dany.

Yeah, I got that. But that's the nature of politics and Dany is not immune to that. The fact that an ally wants something from you doesn't mean you shouldn't trust him. Obviously, in the end she should trust no one completely. I mean... She has a husband now. And he didn't marry her for her pretty eyes.

[Longspear Ryk]

You shouldnt trust anyone so she was right

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Yeah, I got that. But that's the nature of politics and Dany is not immune to that. The fact that an ally wants something from you doesn't mean you shouldn't trust him. Obviously, in the end she should trust no one completely. I mean... She has a husband now. And he didn't marry her for her pretty eyes.

I agree, it makes sense for people like Vic since he will give her ships in return, Tyrion we are yet to see what he will offer her

[Alhazred]

Despite his current intentions, I think Tyrion will end up betraying Dany. I can see him being the third treason (treason for love).

More likely, for gold. Tyrion has always wanted Casterly Rock.

I'm inclined to believe that Quaithe is on Dany's side.

Perhaps. But that does not put her on the side of Good.

[Alhazred]

"Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is . . . and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time." - Marwyn, A Feast for Crows

There. I fixed that for you.

[RoamingRonin]

Last of the three seekers to depart was Quaithe the shadowbinder. From her Dany received only a warning. "Beware," the woman in the red lacquer mask said.

"Of whom?"

"Of all. They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see they shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power."

When Quaithe too was gone, Ser Jorah said, "She speaks truly, my queen . . . though I like her no more than the others."

Thanks, Quaithe!

[LC Jaime Lannister]

That's actually why so many people don't think Quaithe is actually trying to help Dany.

I'm one of those people. Pyat Pree, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and Qaithe all came to visit her before she went to Qarth... I feel like it means something that those three went.

"three treasons will you know: once for blood and once for gold and once for love"

What if Pyat, Xaro and Quaithe were those three treasons?

Xaro-->Gold

Pyat-->Blood

Quiathe-->.....Love...?

It was a wild pitch. But yeah, I don't trust her.

[Nerolunar]

That's actually why so many people don't think Quaithe is actually trying to help Dany.

This one is new to me. This forum sure loves it's twists.

[Zman1863]

I'm one of those people. Pyat Pree, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and Qaithe all came to visit her before she went to Qarth... I feel like it means something that those three went.

"three treasons will you know: once for blood and once for gold and once for love"

What if Pyat, Xaro and Quaithe were those three treasons?

Xaro-->Gold

Pyat-->Blood

Quiathe-->.....Love...?

It was a wild pitch. But yeah, I don't trust her.

Some of that fits, but I think the reason why they are not the subjects of that prophecy is that the word treason implies that some sort of allegiance is owed to Dany by the perpetrators. None of those three owe her any sort of loyalty.

[LC Jaime Lannister]

Some of that fits, but I think the reason why they are not the subjects of that prophecy is that the word treason implies that some sort of allegiance is owed to Dany by the perpetrators. None of those three owe her any sort of loyalty.

:dunno: Guest right? :P

Edit: Also, if she is playing her, then the wordchoice really doesn't matter :P I don't think they are actually the three treasons, but I do think that it is symbolic that those three showed up to Dany together while she was in the Red Waste (?) .

[Myk Lonmouth]

There. I fixed that for you.

I like it better how Martin wrote it.

[Alhazred]

I like it better how Martin wrote it.

Lots of people do like porn. But the porn bits have no particular relevance. All he is saying is that prophesy is treacherous. Seriously, that's all he is saying ... to the extent the subject is prophesy and not cock-sucking.

[Myk Lonmouth]

Porn bits? Wtf. Yeah I get what he's saying. Get the stick out of your ass.