Best to Worst Mothers in ASOIAF

[James Arryn]

And yet the child is the one that has to suffer not the father.

First, not entirely true. Imagine Ned's reaction if he was forced to surrender Robb to a death threat on Pyke. I think we would call that suffering.

But more importantly, that's effect, not deign. A child can go without food because their parent neglects to feed it, and it can go without food because their parent is too ill to get food. And it can go without food because it's parent is dead. Same effect, but with different parenting causes, and we would hold the parents dissimilarly culpable,

Ned means Theon no harm. In fact he as to remind himself not to become too affectionate because of what the political reality might oblige him to do, or at least threaten. But Cat absolutely means for Jon to feel unwelcome. He is unwelcome, to her. She wants him gone. She would prefer he never existed at all. Him bent fully aware of that is not a side effect, it's the desired effect.

[Minsc]

Ned means Theon no harm. In fact he as to remind himself not to become too affectionate because of what the political reality might oblige him to do, or at least threaten. But Cat absolutely means for Jon to feel unwelcome. He is unwelcome, to her. She wants him gone. She would prefer he never existed at all. Him bent fully aware of that is not a side effect, it's the desired effect.

So Theon wasn't supposed to be aware that he was being used as a means to control his father with his life constantly on the line? Simply, he knew his placement in life and how he was being punished in part because of his father's actions by Ned and Robert.

Even if Ned and company don't see it that way doesn't absolve them for their ignorance as that is exactly what they were doing.

[Pod The Impaler]

Best:

Well, it's probably Catelyn (though the Jon issue is definitely a blemish), and the runner-up is either Lady Smallwood or Lady Mormont.

I am eager to see how Osha's parenting skills turn out.

Worst:

Easily, it's Cersei Lannister. You can see that the ones who got the least parenting from her have fared the best. She seems to love her children only in relation to how they further the power and prestige accorded to her. She also managed to turn both their fathers (presumed and biological) into absentee dads, and it's clear this is mainly so nobody could shape the lives of her children except her. She's so toxic to her children's development, that her own relatives make it a top priority to save her children from her influence.

The runner-up in this is a close call, between Selyse Baratheon who is a just an insufferably awful person (you feel sorry for Shireen and Stannis), and Lysa Tully Arryn who is completely bonkers (though this is not really her fault).

[Lady Meera Reed]

Best:

Catelyn Stark

Maege Mormont

Elia Martell

Ellaria Sand

Marya Seaworth

Worst:

Lysa

Cersei

[James Arryn]

So Theon wasn't supposed to be aware that he was being used as a means to control his father with his life constantly on the line? Simply, he knew his placement in life and how he was being punished in part because of his father's actions by Ned and Robert.

Even if Ned and company don't see it that way doesn't absolve them for their ignorance as that is exactly what they were doing.

No, I never said Theon was supposed to be ignorant. I said that was entirely beside the point. Whereas with Cat and Jon it was the point. We are not contrasting the effects on the children, but the behaviour and motivation of the adults involved.

[Minsc]

No, I never said Theon was supposed to be ignorant. I said that was entirely beside the point. Whereas with Cat and Jon it was the point. We are not contrasting the effects on the children, but the behaviour and motivation of the adults involved.

So what, if Ned had another objective alongside his punishing of an innocent child? One can hardly believe that he would be completely ignorant about how that might screw up a child thus being no different from additionally punishing the child.

Simply, if Catelyn not hiding her dislike for Jon damages her character then so to should a grown adult agreeing to take a child hostage as a means to punish their father (though, honestly the second is much worse IMO).

In how, Jon might know she might not want him however had that squat real impact on his life otherwise. Seeing how he wasn't deprived a relationship with his "father," "siblings," nor was he deprived of anything as he continued to get the best his homeland could offer. In contrast, to the effect that Ned's actions had which did deprive his charge of all of that.

[The Holy Goat]

Catelyn is definitly the best IMO, and Cersei is definitly the worst. I'll leave it at that.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

:shocked: What?

Also, you didn't answer my second question.

[SeanF]

Looking over the thread, I notice that we don't have any terrible mothers that come close to the terrible fathers of Westeros. Even if you exclude Craster as an abnormality, you don't have a mother comparable to Tywin or Randyll.

Sybell Spicer seems to be pretty ghastly. Her schemes resulted in the death of her eldest son, and her daughter being a prisoner.

[WhiteOwl18]

Good mothers: Catelyn Stark, Elia Martell, Ellaria Sand, Maege Mormont, Gilly

Bad mothers: Cersei Lannister, Sybell Spicer, Lysa Arryn

It's so much easier to think of good mothers than good fathers!

[Knight Of Winter]

Do we have some Boardology law that Cat/Jon relationship is brought up every time parenthood is discussed? Back to topic:

BEST:

Catelyn and Maege. From little what we know of them, Ellaria and Lady Smalwood also seem to be good mothers.

WORST:

Lysa and Cersei, who actively contributed in their children being crazy, incompetent or ignorant. I'm betting biggest reason Tommen and Myrcella turned out okay is that Cersei paid them much less attention than Joffrey.

Also - Sybell Westerling.

[Winter's Knight]

Do we have some Boardology law that Cat/Jon relationship is brought up every time parenthood is discussed? Back to topic:

BEST:

Catelyn and Maege. From little what we know of them, Ellaria and Lady Smalwood also seem to be good mothers.

WORST:

Lysa and Cersei, who actively contributed in their children being crazy, incompetent or ignorant. I'm betting biggest reason Tommen and Myrcella turned out okay is that Cersei paid them much less attention than Joffrey.

Also - Sybell Westerling.

Yup. Boardology Rule #3 Cat's Law.

[Northbound]

This isn't even a close. Cat!!!! By hundreds of miles! (And I'm a Jon Snow lover!!)

Worst is Lysa!!! I suppose you can throw Cersei in, on some matters. But there is no doubt in my mind, they she would do anything for her kids, so I can't just call her a bad mother. Maybe just a piss poor parent.

[Minsc]

I suppose you can throw Cersei in, on some matters. But there is no doubt in my mind, they she would do anything for her kids, so I can't just call her a bad mother. Maybe just a piss poor parent.

Well, besides give up power to ensure their safety.

[Northbound]

Well, besides give up power to ensure their safety.

Point taken.

[IceSyckel]

Am I the only one who thinks Cat wasn't a great mother? She consistently gave Robb bad advice and undermined him. Sure when Bran got hurt she stayed by his side but to the detriment of the other children. She put her entire family at risk, which includes her children, by kidnapping Tyrion even though some of her kids were at KL which obviously put them in a bad spot. I'm not saying she didn't love her kids but loving and being a good mother are two different things. She often let her emotions get the best of her.

I cannot think of a single mother living at any time during the events of ASOIAF of whom I substantially approve. Cat was an awful mother - especially since she sowed discord between her family and Jon Snow. That she took her anger out on Jon rather than Ned, when Jon is her own children's half brother, is bad parenting. She put her own emotional needs before the well-being of her children. She did this on other occasions as well. There is no such thing as a perfect parent, and Cat is better than other in ASOIAF, but she is far from a paragon of parenting.

I can think of some good fathers (e.g., Ned, Wyman Manderly, etc.), but most of the mothers in the series are awful parents.

[Minsc]

I cannot think of a single mother living at any time during the events of ASOIAF of whom I substantially approve. Cat was an awful mother - especially since she sowed discord between her family and Jon Snow.

When? Seeing how Jon seems to like all of his siblings, and all his siblings seem to like him thus there seems be little discord between her family and Jon.

That she took her anger out on Jon rather than Ned, when Jon is her own children's half brother, is bad parenting.

How is her not liking someone whom she isn't a parent of bad parenting? Ned didn't particularly like or parent Theon, yet you seem to classify him as good father.

She put her own emotional needs before the well-being of her children. She did this on other occasions as well.

When were all these other occasions?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I also have mixed feelings about her. Not quite sure...

And, Dear Lord, Talal. it is 33-25...

Me too afterall she taught Cersei that a woman's weapon is fake tears.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Good mothers: Catelyn Stark, Elia Martell, Ellaria Sand, Maege Mormont, Gilly

Bad mothers: Cersei Lannister, Sybell Spicer, Lysa Arryn

It's so much easier to think of good mothers than good fathers!

Pretty much my choices. I also like to think that Alannys Harlaw and Melessa Florent were good mothers.

Not that many utterly horrible mothers. Both Cersei and Lysa in their weird ways are trying to do best for their children. Lysa had a terrible influence on her son but she kept him safe and alive.

[devilrob6]

Pretty much my choices. I also like to think that Alannys Harlaw and Melessa Florent were good mothers.

Not that many utterly horrible mothers. Both Cersei and Lysa in their weird ways are trying to do best for their children. Lysa had a terrible influence on her son but she kept him safe and alive.

Cersei makes her children pawns in her power games and puts their lives in danger. Their golden crowns and shrouds will all be her doing. She's does feel love for her children, but she is a horrible mother.

To the frequently mentioned good mothers, like Cat, Maege et., i'd add Sam's mother. Just too bad that Sam had one of the worst fathers in Westeros.