Jump to content

Am I the only one who distrusts female fantasy authors?


Greyman

Recommended Posts

I distrust female fantasy authors (but not female literature authors) based on a preconceived notion of what women want from fantasy novels as opposed to what men want. Currently I'm reading Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell in spite of the gender of the author, though that did me a moment's pause. I'm enjoying it so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ha, funny that you mention it, I never thought about this, but now I realize, I don't remeber last time when I really enjoyed some book (not only sci-fi/fantasy but generally) written by woman. Some of them were good, but none great (never read Hobb, though, will try it in near future. Subconsciously, I'm sexist pig, I fear. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, I can't let this thread go on without pointing out that JV Jones is terribly overrated. The Book of Words series at least.

Sorry JV fans.

Not a problem. Her masterwork is The Sword of Shadows. The jump-up in quality between the two series is remarkable. The Book of Words is an okay-but-overtraditional epic fantasy, but The Sword of Shadows is a much bigger, much more interesting story with some terrific atmosphere and worldbuilding (I'd swear you can get frostbite from just reading the story). However, the second and third books in the series suffered massive delays of nearly-GRRM proportions, which doesn't make her the most reliable of authors.

Robin Hobb is horrifically overrated. She can start a story well and introduce well-drawn, deep characters whom she proceeds to pile problem on top of problem on, then have them whine about it until you want to kick them in the face, whilst all the time stretching a reasonable plot that would have filled a single 400-page novel into a flabby, 1,800+ page trilogy of mind-shredding tedium. Her endings are also moronic. I ended both Farseer and Liveship annoyed that the villains hadn't won. She has potential, if she can get a decent editor working on her books.

Naomi Novik's debut novel, Temeraire, is very good, if lightweight. I also enjoyed Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series (although this was overlong as well). Diana Wynn Jones is also good for an entertaining read.

Whilst not a massive fan, I also find JK Rowling's Harry Potter books a mildly diverting read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See I think this is a valid observation. I don't think I'd say I "distrust" female fantasy authors, but I will admit I'm a bit leery. I find that too many female fantasy writers ride the blurry line between "romance" and "chic lit" (the single most insipid type of lit in the universe! But that's another thread. ) and fantasy. I think the other is the EXTREME feminist writers, but that's a double standard because how many fantasy writers are clearly chauvanistic? How many "damsels in distress" are there in fantasy lit?

You've got some good points there. Even though I'm female, most of the fantasy books I adore are by men. I just can't get into most romances for a start. Anne McAffrey has a lot to answer for.

But don't miss Mary Gentle. Her name makes you think of sappy romance novels but trust me .. she doesn't live up to her name. She writes some of the most bloody and cynical novels I have ever read. 'Grunts' is a hilariously unpleasant look at fantasy from the viewpoint of the Orcs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The entire premise of your reasoning is patently absurd. It seems that you have yet to meet Mr. Theodore Sturgeon and his law.

"Ninety percent of everything is crud."

Of course there are bad female fantasy authors. 90% of them suck. It's a LAW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds lke a kind of weird argument to me as well, yes. And I would certainly recommend the Earth Sea Trilogy by Ursula Le Guin.

Earthsea is good, but a bit juvenile, and doesn't carry over to adulthood as well as some - a matter of taste. I like her other works better - The Dispossessed, The Left Hand of Darkness, Always Coming Home, The Lathe of Heaven...she's got lots of good stuff...

Actually, this reminds me of a point an author friend of my mother's made about male vs female sci-fi writers. She said that for a lot of male sci-fi writers, the technology and toys are very important (e.g. Arthur C Clarke, Kim Stanley Robinson) and they're in many ways the focus of the books. Female sci-fi authors, on the other hand, tend to use the setting of a science fiction novel as a way of writing stories about people, societies, and so on (Margaret Atwood and Ursula Le Guin are examples of this). Frank Herbert is a notable exception to this rule, incidentally.

There are lots of good male sci-fi writers that don't get caught up in their toys. Asimov, for a start - Heinlein - Greg Bear - Larry Niven -I'd also include both ACC and KSR as not "caught up in their toys" - their stories stand or fall on their characters, really. Some of these will have diversions into the science/technology (okay KSR's Mars trilogy more than some - but certainly not his The Years of Rice and Salt) but I don't think they depend on that for their interest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But moving into Fantasy, Sci-Fi, thrillers, crime, horror etc the split seems heavily weighted towards male writers.

Not really, most of the fantasy written these days is by women. There's more of a divide along subgenre lines - women rarely write urban fantasy and you'll find few(er) men writing supernatural tales.

I'll give you thrillers, crime and horror. The corresponding genres for women will be chick-lit, young-adult and romance/erotica.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to make one observation about female fantasy authors, because its a) the one thing I always notice about their writing and B) because I have an avid hate for political correctness.

Female writers do generally seem to be more concerned with righting the wrongs of our evil sexist society ( :P ), and exploring the role of women in society in the worlds they create. Now, using an author already mentioned here a lot, I think Robin Hobb actually does this well. She has some very strong female characters, and a number of examples of women in male stereotype roles - soldiers and ship captains.

The thing I find most interesting about the way she approached the matter, is that she portrays women as being subservient to men as another example of the degradation in society from the conflict her stories are based around. In the assassin books, we are constantly told how, in the good old days, as many women were soldiers as men. We have a female arms instructor, a maid who used to be a soldier, and the skill master used to be a mistress. In the Liveship books, we are further taken down this path, seeing how Althea is totally unaccepted as a sailor because she is a woman, even though her Grandmother had been a highly respected captain. Another example, the way the Satrap's companions have gone from trusted advisors to little more than a harem develop this thread further. On top of that, we have the Fool, who takes on both male and female personae to suit her/his purposes within society.

But life isn't all good, another name mentioned here, Laurel K Hamilton, is guilty of the worst piece of self insert you'll see outside of an autobiography. When I'm reading about characters, I want to know about the characters, not be brutally ripped out of imersion to be (repeatedly) told that the author is a short brunette who hates men opening doors for her.

The place of women (as characters) in fantasy writing is important, because it has tended to reflect the imbalances historically present in real society. It is only natural that female (and male, to be fair) fantasy authors would wish to address this, but there's a time and a place and a way of doing it, and it should never be at the expense of the work as a whole. Did giving Arwen a sword make LoTR a better film ? Hell, and no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Robert Jordan actually the nom de plume of a female fantasist?

Because he portrays female characters with such artful verisimilitude. Jordan's women are just so dynamic, subtle, complex and intricate...it's amazingly deep work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(That being said, the author's sex interests me as much as his or her height, age, nationality, or hair colour. Namely: not at all.)

What about an author's attitude towards woodlands?

Oh, and she's more sci-fi than fantasy, but Joan Vinge is another fine author.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huh. I know they're not the most complex stories ever, but Jennifer Roberson's sword stories made me smile when I read them and she seems like a fairly competent author without the big romance thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Robert Jordan actually the nom de plume of a female fantasist?

Because he portrays female characters with such artful verisimilitude. Jordan's women are just so dynamic, subtle, complex and intricate...it's amazingly deep work.

:lol: Good one MeanMrMustard! I nearly fell out of my chair from laughing so hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are lots of good male sci-fi writers that don't get caught up in their toys. Asimov,

I'd disagree: Asimov's "toys" are more societies and ideas than actual "tech hardware", but he's not a character-author by any means.

Consider that while he tells many good stories, the only really good *character* he created was the Mule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Raidne

I haven't read very many female fantasy authors, so I really can't say whether there are trends within genders, but it seems to me that this is not the case with science fiction.

Also, as has been said, Le Guin's other books are different from Earthsea, and really sci fi, not fantasy. The Dispossessed is the best, IMO.

I would not recommend The Left Hand of Darkness to a person who dislikes reading books that make the plot serve a point the author wants to make about gender, don't you think?

And lastly, most authors in this genre are making a point about culture/society. If you don't notice it, it's because you happen to agree with that particular worldview (unless you're a libertarian or something reading Goodkind, in which case you probably feel like I, a liberal, do about Michael Moore).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd disagree: Asimov's "toys" are more societies and ideas than actual "tech hardware", but he's not a character-author by any means.

That was pretty much my feeling as well. Charaters aren't what he excels at, I feel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd disagree: Asimov's "toys" are more societies and ideas than actual "tech hardware", but he's not a character-author by any means.

Consider that while he tells many good stories, the only really good *character* he created was the Mule.

Sure, he likes his ideas - any sf writer does, or they'd write something else, but I beg to differ that he doesn't know how to write a good character - Elijah Baley pops to mind...even Daneel Olivaw I find quite an interesting personality, and not just because he's a robot.

I would not recommend The Left Hand of Darkness to a person who dislikes reading books that make the plot serve a point the author wants to make about gender, don't you think?

Most "point to make about gender" books are generally feminist. That can be done well, or poorly and ham-handed, of course, like any other ideological work. The Left Hand of Darkness has something deeper to say about gender and it's impact on human life than simply "gender roles are unfair oppressive social constructs". So I would still recommend it to our original poster as a terrific work by a female sf author, actually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure, he likes his ideas - any sf writer does, or they'd write something else, but I beg to differ that he doesn't know how to write a good character - Elijah Baley pops to mind...even Daneel Olivaw I find quite an interesting personality, and not just because he's a robot.

I disagree, actually. I'm not even a very big fan of the Mule, to be honest, but none of the characters in Asimov stories ever really struck me as posessing tremendous depth. Then again, it's been a really long time since I read them, so I could just be failing to remember things properly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anne Rice almost turned me off on female authors completely. Potentially intriguing characters with an interesting premise utterly destroyed because she decided to make them all weepy, effeminate bitches. What a fucking hack. Add in most 'chick flicks', either formulaic, by the numbers witless romantic comedies or eccentric characters piled together for the sake of eccentricity in films about nothing (and not in the good Seinfeld way, but in the utterly fucking pointless 'Traveling Pants' and 'Ya-ya sisterhood' way), and it doesn't look good. I tend to like a bit of plot and purpose to my films. That the fairer sex would waste any time, thought or money on this shit is appalling. And leads me to question their ability and judgment in writing a novel that I could read without gouging my eyes out.

Lets see...there's Weis, some very enjoyable, albeit simple fantasy. Still, she collaborated with Hickman, not sure who to credit with what. But there were some passages in Dark Sword that had me cringing that I know HAD to be written by a woman.

Might give LeGuin a try since she comes recommended here. Yeah, I'm a bit of a chauvanist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That the fairer sex would waste any time, thought or money on this shit is appalling. And leads me to question their ability and judgment in writing a novel that I could read without gouging my eyes out.

The point you seem to miss about chick flicks and lit is that they're heavily targeted towards a certain segment of women who haven't, ahem, a great deal of sophisitcation in their taste.

It would be like saying - based on action films a la John Woo and Michael Bay which are heavily targeted towards a certain segment of males - that: "That men would waste any time, thought or money on this shit is appalling. And leads me to question their ability and judgment in directing a film that I could watch without gouging my eyes out." (Something I wouldn't really blame anyone for feeling.)

You don't even have to go to films to find a parallel. Think of the fantasy which is directly targeted at young men - typically hack'n'slash literature with chainmail bikinis on the cover. To use the fact that there's a sub-standard segment of fantasy directed at males as a basis for questioning men's ability to write fantasy is not exactly fair. Same goes for chick lit.

That said, if we assume for a minute that female fantasy authors are simply not as good, for some reason, would anyone care to put out some theories why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...