Does Littlefinger want people to know about Sansa?

[Northernmonkey]

Okay, this might be a long, rambling post, but bear with me.

I've just been thinking, does LF want people to find out about Sansa? It seems uncharacteristically careless of him to bring her to the Eyrie, when that's obviously one of the first places you'd look for her. If he really wanted to keep her secret, why not leave her at the Fingers, or send her somewhere across the narrow sea for a while? There's a good chance that the Mad Mouse and Myranda Royce know who she is, and LF must know that. Would the LF we know really take such a big risk?

Why would he want people to know the truth? Because if he really wants Sansa to claim Winterfell, then it makes sense to leak rumours. Letting the Northmen know that there's a Stark still alive might give them the impetus to keep fighting, or at least prepare them for Sansa's return so they're ready to overthrow the Bolton's when the times right.

It should also help LF if he ever plans to rule the Riverlands from Harrenhall. If he's seen to have rescued one of the only surviving Tully's from the Lannisters, then the people of the Riverlands might accept him as their Lord, something that wouldn't happen otherwise.

But why LF would want people knowing that he's guilty of treason? Well, with winter arriving, they should be pretty safe in the Vale - it would be a significant mission for Cersei to send an army to invade. And doing that might convince the Vale lords to enter the war, which is the last thing the Iron Throne needs at the moment.

Any thoughts?

[Pod The Impaler]

Okay, this might be a long, rambling post, but bear with me.

I've just been thinking, does LF want people to find out about Sansa? It seems uncharacteristically careless of him to bring her to the Eyrie, when that's obviously one of the first places you'd look for her. If he really wanted to keep her secret, why not leave her at the Fingers, or send her somewhere across the narrow sea for a while? There's a good chance that the Mad Mouse and Myranda Royce know who she is, and LF must know that. Would the LF we know really take such a big risk?

Why would he want people to know the truth? Because if he really wants Sansa to claim Winterfell, then it makes sense to leak rumours. Letting the Northmen know that there's a Stark still alive might give them the impetus to keep fighting, or at least prepare them for Sansa's return so they're ready to overthrow the Bolton's when the times right.

It should also help LF if he ever plans to rule the Riverlands from Harrenhall. If he's seen to have rescued one of the only surviving Tully's from the Lannisters, then the people of the Riverlands might accept him as their Lord, something that wouldn't happen otherwise.

But why LF would want people knowing that he's guilty of treason? Well, with winter arriving, they should be pretty safe in the Vale - it would be a significant mission for Cersei to send an army to invade. And doing that might convince the Vale lords to enter the war, which is the last thing the Iron Throne needs at the moment.

Any thoughts?

Littlefinger is a long-term planner.

I suspect any plan Littlefinger has regarding revealing her as Sansa involves a lot of calculations about the Lannisters destroying themselves by the time this happens.

He has already stated he expected Cersei to basically destroy herself and her family's power, or being so weakened that they cannot do much about the Vale keeping Sansa once it happens. The Vale is well-provisioned and it's armed strength has not been expended during the war. Only the Tyrells might have more troops, and they are not likely to go against Littlefinger on that issue considering how they are almost at war with House Lannister already.

As well, I suspect Littlefinger knows about or expects the coming Targaryen invasion, and Dorne's involvement against the Iron Throne. Lord Baelish is cunning, and knows that Dorne has been too quiet as well. They despise the Lannisters, yet sat out the war, so it takes only a bit of calculation to realize they would not have passed up a chance to strike at Lannisters in the war unless they had something better waiting.

The rumours about Danaerys would have reached Littlefinger's ears, same as Varys, Tyrion etc. - but Littlefinger would not be likely to ignore it. Who knows - depending on the timing between AFFC and ADWD, he may even have forewarning of Aegon / The Golden Company invading.

So, regardless of how many of the above details are actually part of his plan, I would say the answer is that Littlefinger plans to wait until the power holding the Iron Throne will not onject or else not be able to act against it.

(And yes, I am sure this includes Harry The Heir dying suddenly and you-know-who making his play to marry Sansa himself.)

[Devaki Khanna]

Littlefinger is a long-term planner.

I suspect any plan Littlefinger has regarding revealing her as Sansa involves a lot of calculations about the Lannisters destroying themselves by the time this happens.

He has already stated he expected Cersei to basically destroy herself and her family's power, or being so weakened that they cannot do much about the Vale keeping Sansa once it happens. The Vale is well-provisioned and it's armed strength has not been expended during the war. Only the Tyrells might have more troops, and they are not likely to go against Littlefinger on that issue considering how they are almost at war with House Lannister already.

As well, I suspect Littlefinger knows about or expects the coming Targaryen invasion, and Dorne's involvement against the Iron Throne. Lord Baelish is cunning, and knows that Dorne has been too quiet as well. They despise the Lannisters, yet sat out the war, so it takes only a bit of calculation to realize they would not have passed up a chance to strike at Lannisters in the war unless they had something better waiting.

The rumours about Danaerys would have reached Littlefinger's ears, same as Varys, Tyrion etc. - but Littlefinger would not be likely to ignore it. Who knows - depending on the timing between AFFC and ADWD, he may even have forewarning of Aegon / The Golden Company invading.

So, regardless of how many of the above details are actually part of his plan, I would say the answer is that Littlefinger plans to wait until the power holding the Iron Throne will not onject or else not be able to act against it.

(And yes, I am sure this includes Harry The Heir dying suddenly and you-know-who making his play to marry Sansa himself.)

Littlefinger thought he'd have more time (the five-year gap); he did not expect Cersei to make such spectacularly bad decisions as refusing to honor her debts to the Iron Bank of Braavos, reviving the military orders associated with the sept in return for His High Holiness blessing Tommen and forgiving the Crown's debt to the sept and alienating the Tyrells, as well as her uncle and her brother Jaime. Hence his need to get Sansa married to Harry; get Sweetrobin out of the way...

[RoamingRonin]

He's hiding her in plain sight.

[redtree]

What i'm confused about is: does he not worry that people suddenly hear that he has bastard daughter? When he plans to smuggle sansa out of KL varys was still master of spy so he musts consider him as a rock on the way, doesn't he? Or he already know that varys'd be out of red keep?? Confusing

And how did he convince Tyrell to give sansa to him? Or maybe LF shit on PW deal. Doesn't he scare what Tyrell might do to him?

[Minstral]

What i'm confused about is: does he not worry that people suddenly hear that he has bastard daughter? When he plans to smuggle sansa out of KL varys was still master of spy so he musts consider him as a rock on the way, doesn't he? Or he already know that varys'd be out of red keep?? Confusing

And how did he convince Tyrell to give sansa to him? Or maybe LF shit on PW deal. Doesn't he scare what Tyrell might do to him?

To paraphrase Varys, and actual real people, people see what they see at face value. Or more accurately, "People are generally more afraid of what they don't see then what they do". Her cover has seemingly fooled the lord of Royce (of the Lords Declarent) and the two of them have actually met.

As to how LF might have "convinced" the Tyrells to give Sansa to him, well I think that there was a bit of schemeing that they agreed upon (LF would supply the poison while the QoT does the killing), but I got the inclination that Baelish tricked the Tyrells out of Sansa. Olenna does opine that she wishes to see Sansa in Highgarden, and I believe that LF crossed them somewhat in their deal.

[complexphoenix]

What i'm confused about is: does he not worry that people suddenly hear that he has bastard daughter? When he plans to smuggle sansa out of KL varys was still master of spy so he musts consider him as a rock on the way, doesn't he? Or he already know that varys'd be out of red keep?? Confusing

And how did he convince Tyrell to give sansa to him? Or maybe LF shit on PW deal. Doesn't he scare what Tyrell might do to him?

You could say the same thing about his lie to Catelyn regarding the dagger. Shouldn't he have been worried that the Starks and Lannisters would figure out the deception and call for his head? The answer is that he always moves to pit people against each other in multiple directions at once while ensuring that nothing really bad is ever provably traceable to him. He betrayed Ned as soon as he had the opportunity, thus ensuring that the dagger lie would be irrelevant. He betrayed Tyrion too for the same reason, and did everything he could to oppose Stannis as well, because he knew those two had begun to recognize him for what he was. And that's the most dangerous thing, for LF: someone who knows what he truly is. Because once someone powerful recognizes what LF is, he's dead.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

The Great One is playing a wonderful game with Sansa currently.

He's taken her out of Varys' sphere (Varys himself admits his power does not extend to the Eyrie), and as such, beyond the grasp of KL for the while.

At the same time, he has Sansa in a state where most people will not put the pieces together regarding her true identity. The only way for someone who is intelligent enough/has suspicions regarding Sansa to seek her true identity will be (one imagine) to work covertly, in the very shadows that the Great One for the most part controls.

Then, even if she is revealed, the Great One has an immediate Royce/ Lords Declarant pacifier in Sansa herself.

[Newstar]

The Great One is playing a wonderful game with Sansa currently.

He's taken her out of Varys' sphere (Varys himself admits his power does not extend to the Eyrie), and as such, beyond the grasp of KL for the while.

At the same time, he has Sansa in a state where most people will not put the pieces together regarding her true identity. The only way for someone who is intelligent enough/has suspicions regarding Sansa to seek her true identity will be (one imagine) to work covertly, in the very shadows that the Great One for the most part controls.

Then, even if she is revealed, the Great One has an immediate Royce/ Lords Declarant pacifier in Sansa herself.

Actually, Littlefinger keeping Sansa close by, parading her around under the Vale Lords' noses, and entrusting her secret to a mentally unstable woman of all people is probably the dumbest thing he could have done. If he was really playing it smart, he would have dyed Sansa's hair and contrived some way of stashing Sansa in hiding with a trusted third party in a suitably anonymous location--as opposed to the Eyrie and the Gates of the Moon, swarming with highborns with a hate-on for Littlefinger--and maintained plausible deniability, only miraculously discovering her location (and disposing of the person who had hid her) when it was safe to out her. Bonus points if the third party played the part of Sansa's captor so that Littlefinger could swoop in and "rescue" her from his own stooge. He could have also maintained his marriage to Lysa for as long as he needed to and disposed of her quietly, as opposed to waving Sansa before her like a red flag to a bull. He did much the same thing with Jeyne Poole (keeping her stashed out of sight until he needed her). But nooooooo, he had to have his kinky Daddy roleplay cake and eat it too. He wants to delight in his own cleverness--knowing he's hidden Sansa in plain sight, and pulling off a great con--and he wants to be close to Sansa. Two big mistakes, as it's entirely possible Sansa's blown her own cover already or has already been recognized.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Actually, Littlefinger keeping Sansa close by, parading her around under the Vale Lords' noses, and entrusting her secret to a mentally unstable woman of all people is probably the dumbest thing he could have done.

Well, not really. That would be infinitely more "dumb" than, after risking life and limb to secure her, to entrust Sansa in a out of the way place. He needs her near, both in order to teach her the game and to use her to get people if/when the time comes.

if he was really playing it smart, he would have dyed Sansa's hair and contrived some way of stashing Sansa in hiding with a trusted third party in a suitably anonymous location--as opposed to the Eyrie and the Gates of the Moon, swarming with highborns with a hate-on for Littlefinger--and maintained plausible deniability, only miraculously discovering her location (and disposing of the person who had hid her) when it was safe to out her.

A suitably anonymous location. Where exactly? His hold on the Fingers? Brilliant. Miles away from where she can have any impact and in a place where she will be (or consider herself) as much of a prisoner as she was in KL.

The highborns with a hate on for the Great One can be dealt with, and when the time comes, Sansa can be a necessary part of that. As I said, can't think of a better Royce pacifier than the key to the North.

The plausible deniability thing is not really feasible.

He could have also maintained his marriage to Lysa for as long as he needed to and disposed of her quietly, as opposed to waving Sansa before her like a red flag to a bull.

Hmmm. Helped to get Sansa on side in my mind. The Great One maintained his marriage to Lysa as long as he needed to. The ceremony finished.

He did much the same thing with Jeyne Poole (keeping her stashed out of sight until he needed her).

Jeyne Poole is not Sansa. Their comparative worth is gargantuan.

[chrisdaw]

He only needs to keep her secret until the marriage, and then he'll be in open defiance of the throne.

[ladytiger]

But nooooooo, he had to have his kinky Daddy roleplay cake and eat it too. He wants to delight in his own cleverness--knowing he's hidden Sansa in plain sight, and pulling off a great con--and he wants to be close to Sansa. Two big mistakes, as it's entirely possible Sansa's blown her own cover already or has already been recognized.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Lol!!!

Definitely agree that Littlefinger's downfall is going to be Sansa. He's screwed up quite a few times because of his creepy infatuation with her. Makes me wonder if the kiss in ASoS was calculated but that he wanted it badly, or if it was just a spur-of-the-moment Creepyfinger deal (especially with that last Sansa chapter in AFFC makes me think the ASoS kiss was spontaneous).

I also believe that the main reason GRRM hasn't released any Sansa POV chapters is because of that "controversial" chapter and me thinks it has something to do with Creepyfinger and Alayne (maybe not a 'rape' but rather him seducing her and Alayne playing along).

[MasterJack]

I think Teaching Sansa how to play the game(fly on her own) is among LF top priorities, he cant do it if she is far away.

[Newstar]

I think Teaching Sansa how to play the game(fly on her own) is among LF top priorities, he cant do it if she is far away.

I'm not entirely convinced Littlefinger is as interested in teaching Sansa as he is in impressing her with how clever he is--note how he spills his scheme to her when he's drunk, the same time when he makes his most amorous advances to date (kissing with tongue, kissing her wrist, pulling her into his lap, etc. etc.), not a coincidence in my mind--so again, I think there's a distinction between what Littlefinger desires because he has sexual/romantic designs on Sansa and what would be the most expeditious way of accomplishing his political objectives. Is teaching Sansa part of his political objectives in making her ultimate political weapon (a Margaery to his Olenna), or is it a conscious (or even unconscious, who knows?) attempt at courting Sansa by showing off how clever and knowledgeable he is?

Even if it absolutely crucial that Sansa be tutored in the game of thrones to serve Littlefinger's political purposes--and I very much doubt that, since Jeyne Poole, another political pawn wielded by Littlefinger, needed no such advanced political tutoring to serve as Littlefinger's marriage pawn--there's nothing that requires it to happen before producing her from some remote location when it's safe for him to do so because the charges have been dropped and she's a widow, much like he produced "Arya." He could position himself as Sansa's (not Alayne's) potential advisor, a trusted counselor who has proven himself by helping her twice, who can help her navigate the difficult world of court intrigues, and go from there, and maintain the plausible deniability of offering advice to the daughter of the woman he had once loved, presenting himself as a friend of the family of sorts. But again, that would mean that Littlefinger was thinking with his brain, instead of merely servicing his impatient desire to have a pretext to keep Sansa with him and in an artificially intimate relationship. Littlefinger seems to be pretty good at playing the long game, but with Sansa, he couldn't help himself, thus "Alayne" knowing many, many things about him that she never would have learned had he kept his hands clean. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Well, not really. That would be infinitely more "dumb" than, after risking life and limb to secure her, to entrust Sansa in a out of the way place.

Nope. Remember Littlefinger's rule? "Clean hands." He broke that rule with Sansa. If he'd acted through intermediaries at all times and kept Sansa at arm's length using trusted third parties until he had need of her, he'd have plausible deniability and could just get rid of the intermediaries if anything went south (or after, to cover his tracks as he did with Dontos). Then, once he "found" her (after the charges were dropped), he'd be Sansa's rescuer and benefactor instead of being a conspirator and an abductor (since the actual abducting and whatnot would have been done by third parties). However, because he is so crazed with lust for Sansa, he cannot bear the idea of sending her away somewhere safe and anonymous until he has use for her, so instead he comes up with this kinky Daddy roleplay business to keep her near him (and, as a bonus, to give him a pretext for touching her inappropriately).

He needs her near, both in order to teach her the game and to use her to get people if/when the time comes.

It's not clear that he needs her to learn the game, if all he wants from her is a marriage pawn. He might imagine that he wants her to learn it, in his mind, but it seems like his lessons are less about teaching her and more about impressing her with his brilliance. Even if he did need to teach her the game of thrones, why does he need this Alayne charade to do it? Why not merely wait until the charges are dropped, "find" Sansa where he had hidden her, conspire without Sansa's knowledge to have her married off to whomever posthaste, and then position himself as her trusted counselor to help her navigate court intrigue (and as a sympathetic shoulder to cry on about her loveless political marriage)? Seems much neater and cleaner that way, and keeps Littlefinger's hands meticulously clean. As it is, his hands are very dirty; Sansa has knowledge of his dirty dealings, has seen him murder Lysa, and was on the receiving end of Lysa's paranoid rants (which further expose Littlefinger's plots if Sansa ever puts the pieces together). Dumb, dumb, dumb. If Littlefinger could have waited and kept it in his pants, so to speak, he could have avoided all of it, and Sansa would have had nothing on him, but he was stupid, and so here we are.

Jeyne Poole is not Sansa. Their comparative worth is gargantuan.

LOL, to him, maybe, since he doesn't want to have sex with Jeyne Poole, but if he's on the level, he expects Jeyne Poole and Sansa to play similar roles: "Arya" by her marriage serves his purposes in the North, Sansa by her marriage will do the same in the Vale. Jeyne might be "worthless," but "Arya" is extremely valuable as a marriage pawn. The same goes for Sansa. Littlefinger did the right thing with Jeyne in terms of achieving his goals: kept her in the dark, didn't inform her of any of his less moral actions, didn't explain anything to her, kept her out of sight, ensured her compliance and made sure his hands were meticulously clean in the affair, only producing her when she was useful. It's precisely what he should have done with Sansa, and would have done if he weren't lobotomized by his own lust for her. It's the same thing Varys is doing with Aegon, and the same thing I suspect Varys did when Tyrek conveniently "disappeared" during the riots. Tyrek's a potential Lannister heir (if enough people die or get disinherited), and if Varys did take him, he's certainly not stupid enough to parade him around in King's Landing where he could be recognized, or keeping Tyrek by his side in disguise...because Varys is smarter than that, and because Varys doesn't want to bang Aegon or Tyrek.

A suitably anonymous location. Where exactly? His hold on the Fingers? Brilliant. Miles away from where she can have any impact and in a place where she will be (or consider herself) as much of a prisoner as she was in KL.

That's the whole point. She can't have any impact where she's wanted for murder, ,and she's politically worthless until 1) the charges are dropped and 2) she's widowed or her marriage is annulled. He needs to keep her out of sight until he can produce her to achieve the desired consequences (unveiling Sansa Stark without it bringing the wrath of Cersei down on his head), much as (I suspect) Varys is keeping Tyrek out of sight until he can produce him, and not one moment sooner. He needs to hide her until the heat's off, not entrust her secret to Lysa and parade her around under the nose of the Vale lords and keep his fingers crossed that it doesn't bite him in the ass. As for Sansa considering herself a prisoner, sure, but 1) this is Sansa we're talking about, she's not going to try to escape and 2) if Littlefinger had played it properly, he would only have revealed himself as her rescuer and benefactor once he was ready to bring her back on to the stage, and would be using nothing but intermediaries up until that point (meaning Sansa wouldn't know Littlefinger as anyone other than her saviour).

As for location, could be any number of places. Littlefinger has connections in various locations, he could have made use of them.

The highborns with a hate on for the Great One can be dealt with

Really? Because tze made a pretty cool argument that Nestor Royce is biding his time and is getting ready to take down Littlefinger, now that he's down from the Eyrie and can't keep physical control over Sweetrobin any longer.

[Colonel Green]

There's a good chance that the Mad Mouse and Myranda Royce know who she is, and LF must know that.

How? Baelish isn't omnipotent. Shadrich is a nobody, a random hedge knight he'd have no particular reason to know anything about. And Baelish didn't observe any of Sansa's interactions with Myranda, though he at least regards her as potential trouble.

As for whether it's an uncharacteristic risk, Baelish's lust for Sansa is certainly making act more recklessly than usual, but his "usual" is already often reckless, notwithstanding his "clean hands" philosophy. As already noted here, the whole business with the dagger could have blown up in his face at a dozen different points, but it didn't, and there's a huge element of pure luck there. Baelish bets big on risky plays, and so far has been on a hot streak.

This is also a good example of how people often overstate the level of realism/deconstruction in the series, because Baelish's schemes are the stuff of Machiavelli fantasies and realistically should have gone off the rails at numerous points.

[StoneToilet]

To paraphrase Varys, and actual real people, people see what they see at face value. Or more accurately, "People are generally more afraid of what they don't see then what they do". Her cover has seemingly fooled the lord of Royce (of the Lords Declarent) and the two of them have actually met.

As to how LF might have "convinced" the Tyrells to give Sansa to him, well I think that there was a bit of schemeing that they agreed upon (LF would supply the poison while the QoT does the killing), but I got the inclination that Baelish tricked the Tyrells out of Sansa. Olenna does opine that she wishes to see Sansa in Highgarden, and I believe that LF crossed them somewhat in their deal.

He ratted the tyrells out to twyin, informing on their plan to marry sansa to willas. When tyrion tried to warn tywin that LF wasnt trustworthy, tywin disagreed, saying he had only just come to him with news of the tyrell plot. LF didnt really cross the tyrells because they arent likely To find out what he did.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Nope. Remember Littlefinger's rule? "Clean hands." He broke that rule with Sansa. If he'd acted through intermediaries at all times and kept Sansa at arm's length using trusted third parties until he had need of her, he'd have plausible deniability and could just get rid of the intermediaries if anything went south (or after, to cover his tracks as he did with Dontos).

You can't actually believe that. Key to the North and ex KL and prisoner of the throne turns up in the Vale, where the Great One was sent a few months prior, in the hands of an individual with likely links to the Great One, and he has plausible deniability? Come on.

At least if Sansa stays close to the Great One, he has the benefits of her physical presence (the presence of one of the most important figures in Westeros), which could very well assuage some of his fiercest rivals.

Beyond that, two more points. Firstly, as time goes on, the Great One's fortunes are become more and more closely linked to Sansa. For that to work, he needs a positive relationship. Substituting one form of captivity for another (you could of course argue that Sansa's current plight is captivity, but it's a better type than the one you're suggesting) is unlikely to get him and Sansa reading from the same page.

Secondly, by having Sansa anywhere than the extremities of the Vale, he risks the clutches of Varys (obvs he's left KL now, but hadn't at the time of the liberation). Varys himself admits his influence does not extend to the Eyrie.

However, because he is so crazed with lust for Sansa, he cannot bear the idea of sending her away somewhere safe and anonymous until he has use for her, so instead he comes up with this kinky Daddy roleplay business to keep her near him (and, as a bonus, to give him a pretext for touching her inappropriately).

Crazed? Hardly.

It's not clear that he needs her to learn the game, if all he wants from her is a marriage pawn. He might imagine that he wants her to learn it, in his mind, but it seems like his lessons are less about teaching her and more about impressing her with his brilliance.

Or both. It's not clear he wants her to learn the game in that he hasn't explicitly said "Sansa I want you to learn the game", but it's pretty easily inferred. Far better an educated ally than an ignorant one.

Even if he did need to teach her the game of thrones, why does he need this Alayne charade to do it?

Because she's a wanted fugitive and for the moment the Great One is still outwardly loyal (and derives much of his power) to the crone?

Why not merely wait until the charges are dropped, "find" Sansa where he had hidden her, conspire without Sansa's knowledge to have her married off to whomever posthaste, and then position himself as her trusted counselor to help her navigate court intrigue (and as a sympathetic shoulder to cry on about her loveless political marriage)?

Because that's not his plan?

Seems much neater and cleaner that way, and keeps Littlefinger's hands meticulously clean. As it is, his hands are very dirty; Sansa has knowledge of his dirty dealings, has seen him murder Lysa, and was on the receiving end of Lysa's paranoid rants (which further expose Littlefinger's plots if Sansa ever puts the pieces together). Dumb, dumb, dumb. If Littlefinger could have waited and kept it in his pants, so to speak, he could have avoided all of it, and Sansa would have had nothing on him, but he was stupid, and so here we are.

Er, Sansa owes the Great One her life. If anything the Lysa business strengthened the Great One's position with her.

LOL, to him, maybe, since he doesn't want to have sex with Jeyne Poole, but if he's on the level, he expects Jeyne Poole and Sansa to play similar roles: "Arya" by her marriage serves his purposes in the North, Sansa by her marriage will do the same in the Vale. Jeyne might be "worthless," but "Arya" is extremely valuable as a marriage pawn. The same goes for Sansa. Littlefinger did the right thing with Jeyne in terms of achieving his goals: kept her in the dark, didn't inform her of any of his less moral actions, didn't explain anything to her, kept her out of sight, ensured her compliance and made sure his hands were meticulously clean in the affair, only producing her when she was useful. It's precisely what he should have done with Sansa, and would have done if he weren't lobotomized by his own lust for her. It's the same thing Varys is doing with Aegon, and the same thing I suspect Varys did when Tyrek conveniently "disappeared" during the riots. Tyrek's a potential Lannister heir (if enough people die or get disinherited), and if Varys did take him, he's certainly not stupid enough to parade him around in King's Landing where he could be recognized, or keeping Tyrek by his side in disguise...because Varys is smarter than that, and because Varys doesn't want to bang Aegon or Tyrek.

Jeyne and Sansa's political worth are just not comparable. Nor are the tactics the Great One did (and could have) used with the pair.

That's the whole point. She can't have any impact where she's wanted for murder, ,and she's politically worthless until 1) the charges are dropped and 2) she's widowed or her marriage is annulled. He needs to keep her out of sight until he can produce her to achieve the desired consequences (unveiling Sansa Stark without it bringing the wrath of Cersei down on his head), much as (I suspect) Varys is keeping Tyrek out of sight until he can produce him, and not one moment sooner. He needs to hide her until the heat's off, not entrust her secret to Lysa and parade her around under the nose of the Vale lords and keep his fingers crossed that it doesn't bite him in the ass. As for Sansa considering herself a prisoner, sure, but 1) this is Sansa we're talking about, she's not going to try to escape and 2) if Littlefinger had played it properly, he would only have revealed himself as her rescuer and benefactor once he was ready to bring her back on to the stage, and would be using nothing but intermediaries up until that point (meaning Sansa wouldn't know Littlefinger as anyone other than her saviour).

Well, as Cersei/Lannister influence diminishes (and if there is one thing I imagine the Great One does not care about, it's the "wrath" of Cersei. The deaf, the dumb and the blind.) and travel gets harder, Sansa's reveal becomes slightly more safe. Of course, I'm not going to say it's without risk, but it's the smartest route to take currently (having her nearby).

The Great One is in command of enough information to know what he's doing.

As for location, could be any number of places. Littlefinger has connections in various locations, he could have made use of them.

Go on.

Really? Because tze made a pretty cool argument that Nestor Royce is biding his time and is getting ready to take down Littlefinger, now that he's down from the Eyrie and can't keep physical control over Sweetrobin any longer.

Which I utterly disagree with.

There's also the issue of the narrative. For the sake of the story, Sansa pretty much has to be near the Great One. Can't just have her sitting in a safe house chapter after chapter.

[Ted Chang]

I think Teaching Sansa how to play the game(fly on her own) is among LF top priorities, he cant do it if she is far away.

I would suggest that is the very last thing LF would want to do. Sansa is walking gold-dust, and everybody knows it. She is the key to Winterfell and as such is theoretically nothing more than a pawn. Previously her behaviour has emphasised this. However later scenes at thne Eyrie have shown her wising up and learning the game herself. However i don't credit LF with that. I agree he will be her downfall, because instead of treating it purely as business he is, it appears, getting rather too interested in her sexually. That's fair enough, she's a pretty girl and her bloodline appeals to him, of course, but I think it will warp his judgment. Maybe not by much but in the game we see them playing one slip may be all it takes. LF's Achilles' heel is that he doesn't have any muscle, and when push comes to shove a sword in the guts is best for openers.

[gougef]

I would suggest that is the very last thing LF would want to do. Sansa is walking gold-dust, and everybody knows it. She is the key to Winterfell and as such is theoretically nothing more than a pawn. Previously her behaviour has emphasised this. However later scenes at thne Eyrie have shown her wising up and learning the game herself. However i don't credit LF with that. I agree he will be her downfall, because instead of treating it purely as business he is, it appears, getting rather too interested in her sexually. That's fair enough, she's a pretty girl and her bloodline appeals to him, of course, but I think it will warp his judgment. Maybe not by much but in the game we see them playing one slip may be all it takes. LF's Achilles' heel is that he doesn't have any muscle, and when push comes to shove a sword in the guts is best for openers.

Don't you mean, "she will be his downfall"?

[Ted Chang]

Don't you mean, "she will be his downfall"?

You are of course quite right. Got a touch the reverses there it looks like!