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What, exactly, is wrong with Lysa?


Priestess from R'hllor

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But what about Edmure and Cat? Also the Blackfish served her really well, what about them?

And trying to kill Sansa because she was molested by Littlefinger

Lysa is a horrible person who murders people, is full of prejudice, and engages in victim-blaming. Lysa was also victimized as a teenage girl and had an awful thing done to her by her father.

The two are not mutually exclusive. (See also: Cersei.)

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Well that's exactly the point. Being a woman in that kind of society generally sucks and you don't get to make choices, instead the choices are made for you by your father, brothers, husband... * Does the fact that so many women were denied any choice when it comes to their own life and their own bodies make it all right? Hell, no.

Lysa's example is still particularly cruel, though. And there is no indication that Cat was forced to marry Ned, certainly not the way Sansa was forced to marry; Cat was just a dutiful daughter. This implies she had some choice, or else she wouldn't have a choice to not be dutiful.

*...unless you're a rich widow in a powerful position (unlike poor lady Hornwood). Had Lysa been smarter, she would have never remarried - instead, she'd have toyed with all her "suitors", dangling the possibility of marriage in front of them, and kept LF as her lover, and he wouldn't have any power over her or the Vale on his own, and would have to keep her alive and please her to keep any influence over the Vale.

But Robb Stark had no choice in which he was promised to. I guess he could've chosen which Frey girl to Wed, but Cat made the decision for Robb without consulting with him.

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I think I'm not making my point very well. I don't agree with Lysa's decisions but I can understand the bitterness and anger that caused them. I don't like that she abandoned her sister but I can understand how going through five miscarriages alone in KL while your sister has five beautiful, healthy children can wreck a person.



Just think: they both fell pregnant together, yet Lysa lost hers almost immediately, while Cat had a healthy son. And this happens again and again and again. Every few years she hears her sister has had another child while she keeps losing hers. And JonA. is small comfort as Cat says: kind but cool. All this time LF is playing her, presenting himself as her only friend, her lover.



The worst of course is knowing that your own father did this to you. First he stole your child, then he made your shame public-can you blame her for hating him? And for hating the sister who had the future she always wanted?


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But Robb Stark had no choice in which he was promised to. I guess he could've chosen which Frey girl to Wed, but Cat made the decision for Robb without consulting with him.

Robb could have mistresses.Robb could approach his wife as often or seldom as he pleased. Robb would not be bound to obey every whim of the girl he married.

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I just read Wide Sargasso Sea and the main character reminded me of Lysa in several ways. Her 'craziness' was the affect of many factors, most of which were out of her control. If it wasn't for sweetrobin I think Lysa would've jumped willingly out of the Moon Door. She deserves sympathy and understanding alongside the scorn she gets.


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But Robb Stark had no choice in which he was promised to. I guess he could've chosen which Frey girl to Wed, but Cat made the decision for Robb without consulting with him.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue? Men also have limited choices - but generally are likely to have more of a choice, especially if they are the head of the family, like Robb was. Robb had a choice and made his choice - it lead to awful consequences, yes, but he still made his own choice. Lysa didn't even get the choice in the most basic way, since her father deceived her and gave her the abortion medicine. And how does that make the lack of choices for girls any better?

Forgot to add: Cersei being ordered by Tywin in ASOS showed how much she was dominated by her father since an early age. As a queen regent, she shouldn't have allowed him to bully her like that and should have tried to stand her ground. But old habits die hard. Same goes for Tyrion. When I talk about Cersei being denied a choice, I'm referring to her being married to Robert when she was a teenager.

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See, I think that after a certain point, you can't expect a person to be loyal to their families. The fact that Lysa didn't rise for her father doesn't really upset me, just like it wouldn't upset me if Sam refuses to have anything further to do with his father.

But what of his mother and sisters, back at Horn Hill? Dickon?

Would he leave them to destruction if he had the power to change their fate?

Randyll might be the head of house, but he's not Sam's sole connection to the name Tarly.

Lysa betrayed Edmure and Cat more grievously than anything Hoster ever did.

Hoster betrayed what might've, whereas she betrayed what definitely was.

Its not as if Edmure or Cat played the role Tywin had Jaime in Tyrion's lesson.

The man had his wife raped repeatedly, amd constantly insulted and derided him. His sister belittled and likely tried to have him killed as he was leading men to try and retain her misbegotten children's stolen birthright.

He still sought to take care of his family, though it's primary members gave him every reason not to.

On the other hand, Petyr had an infatuation with Catelyn, and Edmure squired for Brandon Stark in their little duel.

Off with their heads, surely?

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I think I'm not making my point very well. I don't agree with Lysa's decisions but I can understand the bitterness and anger that caused them. I don't like that she abandoned her sister but I can understand how going through five miscarriages alone in KL while your sister has five beautiful, healthy children can wreck a person.

Just think: they both fell pregnant together, yet Lysa lost hers almost immediately, while Cat had a healthy son. And this happens again and again and again. Every few years she hears her sister has had another child while she keeps losing hers. And JonA. is small comfort as Cat says: kind but cool. All this time LF is playing her, presenting himself as her only friend, her lover.

The worst of course is knowing that your own father did this to you. First he stole your child, then he made your shame public-can you blame her for hating him? And for hating the sister who had the future she always wanted?

Her estrangement from her father is natural.

Her subsequent resentment and outright sabotage of her sisters family standing is not. That is indicative of a mind fit only for a lifetime movie.

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Lysa is a horrible person who murders people, is full of prejudice, and engages in victim-blaming. Lysa was also victimized as a teenage girl and had an awful thing done to her by her father.

The two are not mutually exclusive. (See also: Cersei.)

Hold on, am I missing something here, or did Hoster actually treat Lysa worse than Tywin treated Cersei?

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Hold on, am I missing something here, or did Hoster actually treat Lysa worse than Tywin treated Cersei?

Tywin wasn't especially bad to Cersei, as far as Westerosi fathers go. Only someone as entitled as her could view marrying the King (who was apparently handsome and charismatic when they wed) as some form of abuse

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Robb could have mistresses.Robb could approach his wife as often or seldom as he pleased. Robb would not be bound to obey every whim of the girl he married.

Lysa had the male equivalent of a mistress.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue? Men also have limited choices - but generally are likely to have more of a choice, especially if they are the head of the family, like Robb was. Robb had a choice and made his choice - it lead to awful consequences, yes, but he still made his own choice. Lysa didn't even get the choice in the most basic way, since her father deceived her and gave her the abortion medicine. And how does that make the lack of choices for girls any better?

Forgot to add: Cersei being ordered by Tywin in ASOS showed how much she was dominated by her father since an early age. As a queen regent, she shouldn't have allowed him to bully her like that and should have tried to stand her ground. But old habits die hard. Same goes for Tyrion. When I talk about Cersei being denied a choice, I'm referring to her being married to Robert when she was a teenager.

My point is clear. In Westeros sons and daughters, for the most part, don't marry for love. So I can't feel sorry for Lysa. She's got it better than most. And her problems were of her own making. So when the OP asks what's wrong with Lysa, I agree with those who say she's weak-willed and was always a little off her rocker.

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Tywin wasn't especially bad to Cersei, as far as Westerosi fathers go. Only someone as entitled as her could view marrying the King (who was apparently handsome and charismatic when they wed) as some form of abuse

Cersei was perfectly happy to marry Robert, till he started raping her.

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I have no doubt that she was traumatized by what she went through. It was horrible. I don't blame her for the feelings she has toward her father.

However, she murdered her husband. She helped incite a rebellion that caused countless deaths including those of her sister and nephew. Her family seat is lost and her brother is a hostage. She sat back and did nothing while her family was destroyed. And all this because she was hung up on some scumbag.

Lots of people go through shitty situations without becoming total sociopaths. Sorry, I have no sympathy for her.

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Cersei was perfectly happy to marry Robert, till he started raping her.

OK, not something Tywin could have foreseen or done much about. And since "marital rape" isn't a thing in Westeros, it still doesn't mean he was a bad father by Westerosi standards to marry her off

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I think Lysa was batshit long before the abortion, forced marriage and miscarriages. She intentionally seduced the lowborn, drunk 13(?) year old who was obsessed with her sister. That's just not rational behaviour for anyone, let alone a lady in her position.


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She's a woman who's had some horrible events happen in her life and she let the bitterness of those events eat away inside her for decades. Unfortunately that turned her into an extremely unpleasant person by the end.



Plus shes had a diabolical sociopath whispering in her ear for years and playing on her hopes which can't have helped.


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