What is lurking in the crypts of Winterfell?

[Ser Greg of House House]

Syrio

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Hodor was only afraid of the crypts =at that specific time.= Not before and not after.

That doesn't mean there was something down there. It means exactly what it says - Hodor was afraid at the time. It's not hinting something is or was down there. That's supposition that realistically has no textual evidence. The only thing you could even remotely tie to the crypts at that time is the fact that Bloodraven visits Bran in a dream and takes him down there to talk to Ned. At best you can argue the magic of the greenseers was affecting the crypts at that time. Anything else is, again, supposition with no textual evidence. No ghosts, no nothing. And no, I don't consider Ned in Brans dream via the 3EC a ghost.

[Muggle]

Somehow I[Jon] know I have to go down there, but I don’t want to. I’m afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it’s not them I’m afraid of. I scream that I’m not a Stark, that this isn’t my place, but it’s no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream."

The thing that he actually fears is the truth. We find out what is down in the crypts.

The mention of dreams reminded him. “I[bran] dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”

“And why was that?” Luwin peered through his tube.

“It was something to do about Jon, I think.” The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.

When the time comes, I will tell him myself.

He will meet an image/apparition of Ned who tells Jon the truth about his parentage

This is a post made by fire eater in another thread. I think its pretty spot on.

[Ygrain]

That doesn't mean there was something down there. It means exactly what it says - Hodor was afraid at the time. It's not hinting something is or was down there. That's supposition that realistically has no textual evidence. The only thing you could even remotely tie to the crypts at that time is the fact that Bloodraven visits Bran in a dream and takes him down there to talk to Ned. At best you can argue the magic of the greenseers was affecting the crypts at that time. Anything else is, again, supposition with no textual evidence. No ghosts, no nothing. And no, I don't consider Ned in Brans dream via the 3EC a ghost.

/rollseyes/

Read the relevant passage first. It's Hodor being inexplicably afraid at the same time when Summer was acting strange - not wanting to go down there, either, growling etc. Yet, later on, both Hodor and Summer have no problem hiding down in the crypts, without exhibiting any signs of strange behaviour. Need I remind you about an instance when e.g. Ghost acted strange? There was something down there, at that particular time - something that both Hodor and Summer could sense.

[Jon of the Dead]

That doesn't mean there was something down there. It means exactly what it says - Hodor was afraid at the time. It's not hinting something is or was down there. That's supposition that realistically has no textual evidence. The only thing you could even remotely tie to the crypts at that time is the fact that Bloodraven visits Bran in a dream and takes him down there to talk to Ned. At best you can argue the magic of the greenseers was affecting the crypts at that time. Anything else is, again, supposition with no textual evidence. No ghosts, no nothing. And no, I don't consider Ned in Brans dream via the 3EC a ghost.

Why would Hodor be afraid of nothing at first and then not afraid? Unless Hodor was a bipolar, there was something frightening him (and Summer) and then that something wasn't there anymore.

I still think it could have been Mance in hiding

[Usrnmhsnomning]

/rollseyes/

Read the relevant passage first. It's Hodor being inexplicably afraid at the same time when Summer was acting strange - not wanting to go down there, either, growling etc. Yet, later on, both Hodor and Summer have no problem hiding down in the crypts, without exhibiting any signs of strange behaviour. Need I remind you about an instance when e.g. Ghost acted strange? There was something down there, at that particular time - something that both Hodor and Summer could sense.

/rollseyes/

I did, I came to a different conclusion to you, I explained my reasoning, you disagree, get over it.

[Castellan]

dead Starks

[Ahura Mazda]

That doesn't mean there was something down there. It means exactly what it says - Hodor was afraid at the time. It's not hinting something is or was down there. That's supposition that realistically has no textual evidence. The only thing you could even remotely tie to the crypts at that time is the fact that Bloodraven visits Bran in a dream and takes him down there to talk to Ned. At best you can argue the magic of the greenseers was affecting the crypts at that time. Anything else is, again, supposition with no textual evidence. No ghosts, no nothing. And no, I don't consider Ned in Brans dream via the 3EC a ghost.

Well, this board is known to be 1% textual evidence + 2% brilliant deductions (repeated 18x) and 46% speculation. :lol:

Certainly it can very well be that GRRM is overrated and many possible connections came out by chance, after he changed his mind and found out a way to cover it or did not think about a possible inconsistency at all and we end up covering it up for him for free.

But I've been enough on this board to jump on the band-wagon of any new shiny little theory that does glue together different details and soft speculations so well. ^_^

[Ygrain]

/rollseyes/

I did, I came to a different conclusion to you, I explained my reasoning, you disagree, get over it.

Well, if you insist on ignoring that Summer was acting weird, as well, have it your way.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Well, if you insist on ignoring that Summer was acting weird, as well, have it your way.

I didn't ignore it, I just don't think "He bared his teeth and crept backward" a few passages before Shaggydog savaged Luwin is "weird" behaviour. It seems quite par the course, actually, of the direwolves reacting to future danger. The extent of "Summer acting weird" was growling at the dark once; to which we later find Shaggydog hiding in the dark in a particularly foul and aggressive mood (echoing Rickon). As an aside, Shaggydog wasn't exhibiting the same "weird" behaviour Summer was, their behaviour was effectively opposite (Summer wary, Shaggy aggressive). It's an absolute stretch in my opinion to equate what amounts to seven words regarding Summers "weird" behaviour and Hodor's fear with ghosts (or anything other than an angry Shaggy, for that matter) in the crypt.

[Ludd]

I think Jon's dream and Lady Dustin's interest make it clear that there is SOMETING in the crypts.

Now the IRON swords are placed on the Starks to keeps their souls at rest, so I rather think that those from whom the swords are removed or rusted are all set to rise again.

This means we will get to see:

Brandon and Rickard and he guy whose sword was taken by Hodor and the one taken by Osha.

I do not think Jojen took a sword and I am fairly sure that Meera did not- preferring her net and dagger as weapons.

I am also guessing that Ned will arise too since his bones are not yet interred with a sword to keep him at rest - Nor Robb who also is set to rise again as a Stark of Winterfell.

Jon may find himself with 1000 or so warlike Kings of Winter.

I am sort of hoping that Cold Hands may be one such wraith-

[Ice and fire freak]

We all know magic is coming back into the world and the Starks with the warging thing going on are into magic so it's not far out to suggest theres something of importance down those crypts.

[Ygrain]

I didn't ignore it, I just don't think "He bared his teeth and crept backward" a few passages before Shaggydog savaged Luwin is "weird" behaviour. It seems quite par the course, actually, of the direwolves reacting to future danger. The extent of "Summer acting weird" was growling at the dark once; to which we later find Shaggydog hiding in the dark in a particularly foul and aggressive mood (echoing Rickon). As an aside, Shaggydog wasn't exhibiting the same "weird" behaviour Summer was, their behaviour was effectively opposite (Summer wary, Shaggy aggressive). It's an absolute stretch in my opinion to equate what amounts to seven words regarding Summers "weird" behaviour and Hodor's fear with ghosts (or anything other than an angry Shaggy, for that matter) in the crypt.

You missed that part when Summer doesn't want to go down at all - I'll post the quotes when I get back from work. Now, I hope you don't want to claim that he is afraid to enter the crypts because of Shaggydog, or do you?

[Ted Chang]

Only one man knows for sure...

[Usrnmhsnomning]

You missed that part when Summer doesn't want to go down at all - I'll post the quotes when I get back from work. Now, I hope you don't want to claim that he is afraid to enter the crypts because of Shaggydog, or do you?

No, I didn't miss it. You missed the part where you aren't going to change my mind to believe in an unsupported claim.

[Ygrain]

And you have failed to answer. Do you claim that Summer refuses to enter the crypts because of Shaggydog?

[Iona]

But hey, if Mance was lurking in the crypts when Hodor was frightened to go there and Summer was acting a bit funny and Rickon and Shaggy were in a bad mood... Don't you think the direwolves would have sniffed out Mance and used him as a chew toy?

[Jon of the Dead]

But hey, if Mance was lurking in the crypts when Hodor was frightened to go there and Summer was acting a bit funny and Rickon and Shaggy were in a bad mood... Don't you think the direwolves would have sniffed out Mance and used him as a chew toy?

Yeah, that could have been a possibility, absolutely. Or maybe Mance was hiding in some sort of crevice or in a place where the direwolves couldn't get to him. Or maybe there's something about Mance that scares even the wolves :dunno:

[The Lady Raven]

It was me, mates! Here's the link:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98266-crackpot-time-with-mance-the-human-why-i-think-mances-part-in-the-pink-letter-is-bs/

But I do think there's something else there. Among the options, I think there could be:

1. Something do with Lyanna, maybe something to prove Jon is her son (which could explain his dreams)

:agree:

[houseHB]

Rambo about to unleash some hell on some Boltons and Freys