The weirdness of Ghost.......Help

[wolfmaid7]

Ok guys i need help with this,i've been trying to get this out of my mind,and curse White Fang for reminding me what has been bugging me. So i've been reading this book by Ted Andrews called animal spirit guides and there's a nice part about the significance of the Wolf as a Spirit Guide.This has been very interesting reading about the White wolf which started my thinking in this way.I'm sorry if this has been brought up before,and maybe you all can redirect me to a thread if it has.

The White Wolf:Known as the phantom, the white wolf lives in the spiritual and physical dimensions simultaneously. They teach the lessons which help to bring both these lives into balance. The help us learn how to build the bridge between the two worlds so that we might learn the underlying purpose of events and issues in our life. Note worthy of all the color/energy wolf classifications ;the White wolf is the only one that lives in both planes physical and spiritual.The others are all on the physical plane.

With the above in mind there is something bugging me about Ghost's thinking:

"Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking

cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white

wolf could no longer sense."( Jon 1,ADWD).

Well from the beginning of the quote we see that Ghost even though Ghost included himself ,he at the same time excluded himself.The thing that's nagging me is why say 4 remain? Can Ghost sense Grey Wind and Lady or is my Math off? Seeing as Jon when he wakes up acknowledges that Grey wind is dead and Ghost knows it. Sooo Shouldn't it be two remain( Shaggy and Nym) and one the White wolf couldn't sense ( Summer)?

Any how i switch it,it doesn't come out right with the Math.

I can't even begin to work this out in my mind. I've started with maybe because Sansa is still alive he's counting her as Lady, but still the Math doesn't add up.How are you guys looking at this?

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

Ghost can't sense summer...

ETA: you already said that haha. It would have helped me if I didn't skim.

[LynnS]

Since the direwolves and their wargs are a part of each other; perhaps it is Grey Wing/Rob that Ghost can longer sense; but a part of Lady still resides in Sansa?

[Black Crow]

The way I read it is that four of the six remain, ie: Ghost, Summer, Shaggydog and Nymeria, but he can't sense one of them. We know he can sense Shaggydog eating the unicorn and we know that Nymeria is out there, but Summer is giving him a bit of trouble in that cave.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

The way I read it is that four of the six remain, ie: Ghost, Summer, Shaggydog and Nymeria, but he can't sense one of them. We know he can sense Shaggydog eating the unicorn and we know that Nymeria is out there, but Summer is giving him a bit of trouble in that cave.

Exactly how I felt about it.

[wolfmaid7]

I did think of that but I dismissed it because of the highlighted part adding " and" changed

to whole context for me because it made that part a separate clause.

[brut]

Agree with BC. Four direwolves remain including Ghost, but out of these four, Ghost cannot sense one. Also, who said wolves are good with math?

[brut]

On a second and unrelated thought, Ned killed Lady with Ice. So it seems the blade was tempered with the Direwolf's blood (imbued with its soul), and then Ice was used to kill Ned, so the blade was tempered with the blood of a Wolf in metaphorical sense as well. Coincidence?

[The Dragon has three heads]

Did he use ice? I though it was a dagger...maybe book and show crossover there...

[Jayce]

I did think of that but I dismissed it because of the highlighted part adding " and" changed

to whole context for me because it made that part a separate clause.

Indeed, that "and" makes me think there are 5 not 4 that he is referring to. 4 he can sense "and" one he can't.

With this in mind I also took it to mean that Sansa/Lady were the same (if a warg can flee to their animal's body when their body dioes, does it work the other way around and Lady is with Sansa?).

[brut]

Yep:

He left the room with his eyes burning and this daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady", he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.

Shortly, Jory brought him Ice.

When it was over, he said, "Choose four men and have them take the body north. Bury her at Winterfell.

[Rhienne]

He can't sense Summer because he is beyond the Wall, and the Wall blocks the connection between the wolves (e.g. Jon could not sense Ghost when they were on opposite sides of the Wall).

[hecameburning]

You of all people should know that this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Heresy threads Wolfmaid. So why was a thread made for it?

[wolfmaid7]

You of all people should know that this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Heresy threads Wolfmaid. So why was a thread made for it?

Firstly, it was NOT discussed in Hersey. Even it was there is no rule saying that it can't be discussed elsewhere with alternative perspectives.

Why did you waste my time with this comment ?please your vibe is always so negative and so confrontational I don't want it here.

[LynnS]

On a second and unrelated thought, Ned killed Lady with Ice. So it seems the blade was tempered with the Direwolf's blood (imbued with its soul), and then Ice was used to kill Ned, so the blade was tempered with the blood of a Wolf in metaphorical sense as well. Coincidence?

Oooooh. Interesting connection.

[wolfmaid7]

Indeed, that "and" makes me think there are 5 not 4 that he is referring to. 4 he can sense "and" one he can't.

With this in mind I also took it to mean that Sansa/Lady were the same (if a warg can flee to their animal's body when their body dioes, does it work the other way around and Lady is with Sansa?).

Yep I read it the way you did because of that ".....and" which made me think that seeing as they are the same (the wolves and the kids) that he can also sense Lady because of Sansa and because he possibly have this "otherworldly"connection can sense Greywind.

[Matty-El]

He can't sense Summer because he is beyond the Wall, and the Wall blocks the connection between the wolves (e.g. Jon could not sense Ghost when they were on opposite sides of the Wall).

I've spent a lot of time considering just what the wall and its powers are, especially in contrast to other old spell forged walls and castles. The wall does seem to break the warg connection but then you have the weirnet which passes (perhaps underneath) it routinely.

So then consider Mel who needs Davos to row her into Storms End (another spell forged wall of sorts) to birth her shadows and yet like the weirnet, her visions are unimpeded. She can presumably predict what's happening in the castle just as she can see visions from beyond the wall. i.e. From south of the wall she is shown a vision of Bran and Bloodraven who are not only beyond the wall but inside a weircave which the others can't enter for another mystical reason.

Then you have the theory of Bloodraven or Bran warging mormonts raven, why wouldn't the wall stop that also? Perhaps it does and it debunks the theory. Winterfell doesn't interfere with warging, does that mean the wall is specifically designed with spells against the old gods? Could that stregthen the old gods connection to the others also?

Not trying to derail the thread but Ghost losing his connection to Summer really got me thinking and I'm excited to read other opinions.

[Black Crow]

Yep I read it the way you did because of that ".....and" which made me think that seeing as they are the same (the wolves and the kids) that he can also sense Lady because of Sansa and because he possibly have this "otherworldly"connection can sense Greywind.

I still think that its straightforward and that what it means is that now there are four and one (of them) he can no longer sense.

[Black Crow]

Firstly, it was NOT discussed in Hersey. Even it was there is no rule saying that it can't be discussed elsewhere with alternative perspectives.

Why did you waste my time with this comment ?please your vibe is always so negative and so confrontational I don't want it here.

:agree:

[Black Crow]

Rechecked the passage, looking for something else and I'm pretty sure the missing one is Summer.

Ghost can sense the black one (shaggydog) tucking into a huge one-horned goat in pouring rain, and he can sense the little sister (Nymeria) running with her pack.

Its then he starts reflecting on how there were once six and "now four... and one the white wolf could no longer sense."

The pause suggests that "and one" is one of the four, and this is confirmed a few lines later when he thinks of the one that smells of summer is beyond the Wall. He knows where he is, but because he's beyond the Wall he can't sense him as he can sense the other two.