Will Bravos be pro or anti Dany?

[Tony Stark of Winterfell]

just as in quarth, there will be separate factions in braavos. the iron bank might see profit in supporting her, faceless men will oppose her not because they have anything personal against dany, but more to do with what her dragons represent-the valyrian empire they escaped from.

they might even send arya in to kill her, who knows. It would be interesting to see what arya would do then.

[Arya kiddin']

My concern is why no one can spell Braavos correctly. :P

Well i think it depends on whos really pulling the strings in Braavos. Isnt the Iron Bank? Is it the Sealord? Is it the FM? Is it all of them working as a unit? (given the nature of the FM, this is possible.) I actually think they will perceive the dragons as a huge threat. I also think if Dany upsets trade from the other Free Cities, Braavos will be quite...annoyed.

One must account the movement of the smallfolk when considering all of this. Dany is the breaker of chains, that is why so many smallfolk join to her cause, because they think it is just. Vogarro's whore wants her back, ad we should assume such factions will exist in Braavos as well (I spell it correctly :P ) . This is an uprising of the slaves, it uprooted centuries old rules in the Slaver's Bay, it can surely hit Braavos and Volantis just as hard.

Thou shall not underestimate the fanbase of the silver queen. :P

[HannibalStark]

just as in quarth, there will be separate factions in braavos. the iron bank might see profit in supporting her, faceless men will oppose her not because they have anything personal against dany, but more to do with what her dragons represent-the valyrian empire they escaped from.

they might even send arya in to kill her, who knows. It would be interesting to see what arya would do then.

but that whole, the first FM was a slave (could have even been a Valeryian noble dude) that set about to free the slaves/tortured from their miserable lives.....

That story kinda doesn't apply to Dany, even with dragons, does it? I mean, yes she has dragons x3....but she is also campaigning on an anti slavery platform...If Dany was trying to rule and enslave the world that would be one thing.

I don't think the FM or House of WHITE and BLACK would have the same opposition the first FM had (assuming that is a true story...it was told as only being one of many possible origins of the FM)

What would Dany have to do in Bravos in the first place anyway? I'm not sure the two will ever have a reason to come into contact with each other.

[Tony Stark of Winterfell]

dany probably wont go to braavos. the FM could always send an assassin to her.

she has poor control over her dragons. someone with a dragon horn could control one of them and start their own slaving empire. dragon horns outside the ruins of valyria are rare, but they do exist. one in the wrong hands could mean disaster. the part of volantis that houses the nobles of valyrian descent could contain a treasure trove of valyrian artifacts, a dragon horn one of them. volantenes are pro slavery.

there is also the theory that the faceless men were responsible for the extinction of targaryen dragons in westeros. they might have worked with the maesters.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Arya never got anything for her work

The Black Brothers don't pay, if you want to say they're criminals it doesn't count, you can say the same about the guy Dany makes work, he's a war criminal.

And to address her profiting from slavery, all of ASOIAF profits from slavery. We see this when the closing of slavers bays effects the world economy all the way to Westeros.

To call the one and only person in the series who has done anything to significantly slow slavery down a big bad slaver would be pretty ridiculous.

I don't think Braavos will see her as a slaver based on grey areas of "gotcha" slavery.

They have their own grey areas.

I actually didn't want to get into this but...

Arya was essentially a prisoner. She deserved pay but Tywin, The Mountain, and Bolton are shitty people. If you want to say they use what is essentially slavery, go ahead. But that is not normal in Westeros.

The Night's Watch is an order that is joined willingly. It should be noted that there is no one over them. So, who would they be slaves to? Each other? Also, considering the fact that there exists a brothel that they visit (and must have money for obviously), they probably do get paid.

And while everyone may in some round-a-bout way benefit from slavery, that's different than directly profiting from the sale of slaves. For the record, I don't think it would necessarily make her a slaver herself unless she is personally profiting. Otherwise, it's taxes.

Who has even given her a loan that she hasnt repayed?

Well, Astapor shows that she makes deals in bad faith. Are the Great Masters horrible people that deserve death? Absolutely. But a business is going to see Dany make a deal, murder those she made a deal with, and then keep both what she bought and her payment. This is going to give any business pause even if they personally believe "fuck those guys" because it becomes a question of motivation. Did Dany do it out of righteousness or to steal the army? Will she decide that what I am doing is a crime and murder to avoid paying?

I AM NOT saying that the Iron Bank or anyone will decide that Astapor is a deal breaker for Dany. I am saying it will give anyone pause. I'm sure some will still be willing to work with her and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Anyways, my opinion about factions:

1. We do not have a complete list. I am guessing there are many powerful factions in Braavos. Some may appear and support Dany. Some may appear and oppose Dany. It will be interesting how this will play out in the fight over the next Sealord.

2. I don't think that anti-slavery hardliners will be pushing hard for Dany yet. She pushed back on many of her Mereen reforms (such as allowing the market outside the city, people selling themselves, etc.) which will kill any momentum she would have from them. She legalized and legitimized slavery. She even taxes it. And regardless of whether Xaro's friend was real, much less a slave, he will be telling the story and it will spread.

I am absolutely sure that Dany can change this around. But right now, I don't think the anti-slavery hardliners are a slam dunk for her. This could very easily change if she returns to Mereen and ends all her concessions to the slavers (which she probably will). So, I consider them, not yet, but probably in the future.

3. On the other hand, I don't think the Faceless Men will be actively opposed to her unless she gets someone asking for mercy for her. Do they hate dragons? Yeah. But they as far as we know they did not plot the death of every dragon owner since the fall of Valiryia. As long as she doesn't directly threaten them and no one pays them, they will let Dany live out her life with no interference.

4. I believe the Iron Bank will stick with Stannis. From what I can tell, they only support one side in a war. This is why they did offer support to anyone other than the Lannisters until Cersei fucked up.

[danm_999]

If they deign to take a side? Anti I would imagine.

Besides the whole dragon issue, and how they'll likely outlive Daenerys, which must be a concern for a society that does not jape of dragons, from the outside the optics aren't terribly good on Daenerys as the great abolitonist, at least not from what the Braavosi perspective would be.

She continues to use the title of Khaleesi, and keeps a khalasar around her. A khalasar who continues calling her attendants, like Missandei, "slaves". Now, the situation here might be far more complicated given we know the rest of the story, but from the outside it surely doesn't look more complicated. Dothraki style, Dothraki trappings. Doesn't look fabulous, so much so two of her closest confidents (Irri, Jhiqui) see no difference.

She uses Unsullied, the aforementioned Dothraki, and she used/uses (depending on Tyrion's plans) the Second Sons, the last of which were so reviled in the Free Cities they had to move East to Slaver's Bay. Again, I'll point to my previous remark here about there being more than meets the eyes on all this, but again, not from the outside. She has an extremely questionable coalition of forces fighting for her, all with the trappings of a slaver's army.

Now, to her actions. She took over Astapor and executed the Wise Masters, freed the slaves. Well and good. Then in a short amount of time a new slave regime under Cleon sprang up, and I'm guessing the Braavosi won't know about or focus on that unnamed weaksauce council she set up. They'll see Daenerys coming in, killing a bunch of folks, and leaving, and then the slave-master relationship of the past simply inverting itself.

On to Yunkai. She takes what can only look like a bribe to an outsider to leave Yunkai be, and imposed no terms on them not resuming slavery like we know Braavos tries to do with defeated enemies. She does free the current crop of slaves, yes, but she's not really instituting any sort of policy to stop it's resumption like we know the Braavosi attempt. I'd almost say to the Braavosi this must have looked like someone who planned to have future dealings with the Yunkai, since she's so lenient if she actually expected to end slavery.

Jump to Meereen, and things get really squiggly. She takes the city (again, well and good), and crucifies 163 of the elite in some numerical based revenge, and then conducts a full pardon, and allows the resumption of voluntary slavery, of which she takes a cut.

I'll pause here and say this might stop looking like abolitonism to the Braavosi, and start looking like a rival slaver eliminating the competition in the great slave cities. She creates a more pliable regime in Astapor, but slavery and the training of Unsullied resumes, she takes what looks like a bribe from the Yunkai, and she takes Meereen and begins taking a cut from some form of slavery therewithin.

This brings us to ADWD. Xaro notes that Daenerys is apparently using some pretty questionable coercion in getting people to work without consent to rebuild Meereen, and uses the defence people are being paid in food and shelter (I guess the Old Masters didn't provide their slaves food and shelter...?). In a fit of what I'll call indignation, she offers to sell the man to Xaro, which whilst not striking me as totally admitting she's a slaver, does at least seem an admission that the optics of all this are pretty bad. Then, she marries Hizdahr, re-opens the fighting pits, and allows (albeit begrudingly) slavery to resume, just not in Meereen's walls.

So yeah, I have reasons to doubt they'd accept Daenerys abolitonist bonafides, since from the outside this all looks pretty dodgy, and Daenerys seems to be simply inverting the old Master-slave relationships, and tolerating a hell of a lot more than Braavos do.

Finally, there's the company she's kept personally. Braavos might kindly remember the time Daenerys spent amongst them as a child, which I would guess would work in her favour. They also might remember she's a Westerosi, who are, like them, anti-slavery.

Unfortunately, the good association seems to end there, and any halfway competant spy or diplomat is going to look at her associates onwards with concern. She was hosted by Illyrio Mopatis, a guy I cannot imagine anyone thinks of as a friend to the slave, given he's got Unsullied guards. She was married to Khal Drogo, a powerful warrior, who, you know, kept a lot of slaves. The first Knight of her Kingsguard, her advisor and confident Ser Jorah was exiled from that society the Braavosi may well admire for, well, slavery. She was hosted for months in Qarth by Xaro, who had so many slaves it was a little silly. She's now married Hizdahr, another old family of slavers, picked deliberately for his good relationship with other Ghiscari families. I get very few of these people she chose herself, but again, if someone spent time with a certain sort of person for years on end, I'd start to think they had a type, or at least that type thought there was profit in associating with them.

I'll finish by iterating I get there's more nuance to most of what I've said here. Her Unsullied aren't slaves for example. Nor is Missandei. Nor was, say, taking a cut of voluntary slavery in Meereen anything but a spur of the moment pragmatic move suggested by Daario.

But I'm not trying to make an argument for nuance here. I'm trying to get inside the heads of the Braavosi, on the other side of the world, when they look at Daenerys, I can't imagine they'd be terribly comforted with what they see, nor are they going to take the Widow of the Waterfront view that she's their secret salvation.

[Ours if the Fury]

I think it would be nice for them to get involved being pro dany adds another aspect to the story!!

[SeanF]

If they deign to take a side? Anti I would imagine.

Besides the whole dragon issue, and how they'll likely outlive Daenerys, which must be a concern for a society that does not jape of dragons, from the outside the optics aren't terribly good on Daenerys as the great abolitonist, at least not from what the Braavosi perspective would be.

She continues to use the title of Khaleesi, and keeps a khalasar around her. A khalasar who continues calling her attendants, like Missandei, "slaves". Now, the situation here might be far more complicated given we know the rest of the story, but from the outside it surely doesn't look more complicated. Dothraki style, Dothraki trappings. Doesn't look fabulous, so much so two of her closest confidents (Irri, Jhiqui) see no

difference.

She uses Unsullied, the aforementioned Dothraki, and she used/uses (depending on Tyrion's plans) the Second Sons, the last of which were so reviled in the Free Cities they had to move East to Slaver's Bay. Again, I'll point to my previous remark here about there being more than meets the eyes on all this, but again, not from the outside. She has an extremely questionable coalition of forces fighting for her, all with the trappings of a slaver's army.

Now, to her actions. She took over Astapor and executed the Wise Masters, freed the slaves. Well and good. Then in a short amount of time a new slave regime under Cleon sprang up, and I'm guessing the Braavosi

won't know about or focus on that unnamed weaksauce council she set up. They'll see Daenerys coming in, killing a bunch of folks, and leaving, and then the slave-master relationship of the past simply inverting itself.

On to Yunkai. She takes what can only look like a bribe to an outsider to leave Yunkai be, and imposed no terms on them not resuming slavery like we know Braavos tries to do with defeated enemies. She does free the current crop of slaves, yes, but she's not really instituting any sort of policy to stop it's resumption like we know the Braavosi attempt. I'd almost say to the Braavosi this must have looked like someone who planned to have future dealings with the Yunkai, since she's so lenient if she actually expected to end slavery.

Jump to Meereen, and things get really squiggly. She takes the city (again, well and good), and crucifies 163 of the elite in some numerical based revenge, and then conducts a full pardon, and allows the resumption of

voluntary slavery, of which she takes a cut.

I'll pause here and say this might stop looking like abolitonism to the Braavosi, and start looking like a rival slaver eliminating the competition in the great slave cities. She creates a more pliable regime in Astapor, but slavery and the training of Unsullied resumes, she takes what looks like a bribe from the Yunkai, and she takes Meereen and begins taking a cut from some form of slavery therewithin.

This brings us to ADWD. Xaro notes that Daenerys is apparently using some pretty questionable coercion in

getting people to work without consent to rebuild Meereen, and uses the defence people are being paid in food and shelter (I guess the Old Masters didn't provide their slaves food and shelter...?). In a fit of what I'll call indignation, she offers to sell the man to Xaro, which whilst not striking me as totally admitting she's a slaver, does at least seem an admission that the optics of all this are pretty bad. Then, she marries Hizdahr, re-opens the fighting pits, and allows (albeit begrudingly) slavery to resume, just not in Meereen's walls.

So yeah, I have reasons to doubt they'd accept Daenerys abolitonist bonafides, since from the outside this all looks pretty dodgy, and Daenerys seems to be simply inverting the old Master-slave relationships, and tolerating a hell of a lot more than Braavos do.

Finally, there's the company she's kept personally. Braavos might kindly remember the time Daenerys spent amongst them as a child, which I would guess would work in her favour. They also might remember she's a Westerosi, who are, like them, anti-slavery.

Unfortunately, the good association seems to end there, and any halfway competant spy or diplomat is going

to look at her associates onwards with concern. She was hosted by Illyrio Mopatis, a guy I cannot imagine anyone thinks of as a friend to the slave, given he's got Unsullied guards. She was married to Khal Drogo, a powerful warrior, who, you know, kept a lot of slaves. The first Knight of her Kingsguard, her advisor and confident Ser Jorah was exiled from that society the Braavosi may well admire for, well, slavery. She was hosted for months in Qarth by Xaro, who had so many slaves it was a little silly. She's now married Hizdahr, another old family of slavers, picked deliberately for his good relationship with other Ghiscari families. I get very few of these people she chose herself, but again, if someone spent time with a certain sort of person for years on end, I'd start to think they had a type, or at least that type thought there was profit in associating with them.

I'll finish by iterating I get there's more nuance to most of what I've said here. Her Unsullied aren't slaves for example. Nor is Missandei. Nor was, say, taking a cut of voluntary slavery in Meereen anything but a spur of the moment pragmatic move suggested by Daario.

But I'm not trying to make an argument for nuance here. I'm trying to get inside the heads of the Braavosi, on the other side of the world, when they look at Daenerys, I can't imagine they'd be terribly comforted with what they see, nor are they going to take the Widow of the Waterfront view that she's their secret salvation.

I suppose much would depend also on how much support she gets from the Dothraki, and how they behave under her leadership. If they follow her, I'm sure they'll expect to be rewarded with plunder and captives. A huge Khalasar moving Eastwards would surely alarm Braavos, particularly if it was burning and pillaging as it went.

A revolt in Volantis could work for or against her. Freeing Volantene slaves would be viewed well in Braavos. A complete bloodbath probably wouldn't be, given this would likely damage their own economy, and also fuel suspicion about her intentions.

[Old-Growth]

Couldn't the Doom of Valyria be considered genocide?

I mean, I know the Valyrians have done awful things, but that doesn't mean you can do the same to them.

Not that the Braavosi and in particular the founder of the FM had anything to with causing the Doom.

[Mithras]

Since Volantis is in open war with Dany, Braavos will certainly aid her to bleed Volantis. This antislavery campaign of Dany is new and its future is uncertain, yet the enmity between Volantis and Braavos is centuries old and deeply founded.

I think Braavos will use Dany as much as they can to defeat their archenemy Volantis. Surely they want a backup plan to get rid of the dragons if evreything goes wrong. However, I dont see it possible that they will turn down Daenerys as her name is known by more and more slaves everyday.

[Ted Chang]

Personally I don't think it will come down to being pro or anti-Dany. I think the choice in the next book will be pro or anti-dragons, and whilst many will undoubtedly resent her, survival probably will win through. This is presuming that the dragons really come into their own in the next book, although with the clock ticking for GRRM I think he's going to have to drive the story along now.

[C0bR]

Correct me if I am wrong but do the Braavosi actually even care about the slavery outside of Braavos? It seems to me they are content with Braavos being a city of free people and they don't care about what happens in the rest of Essos, just like the Westerosi do not give a shit about the slavery in Essos.

I am not really sure her (very unclear and hazy) "campaign" would make some impression.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Correct me if I am wrong but do the Braavosi actually even care about the slavery outside of Braavos? It seems to me they are content with Braavos being a city of free people and they don't care about what happens in the rest of Essos, just like the Westerosi do not give a shit about the slavery in Essos.

I am not really sure her (very unclear and hazy) "campaign" would make some impression.

They do. They made Pentos to ban slavery officially, if not in practice. But I don't think they consider ending slavery their purpose.

[Mithras]

Braavos is a major political power and like all the major political powers they always desire for more power and influence.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I'm just saying, For Braavos to oppose Dany for being a slaver seems pretty ridiculous to me.

The stories about the queen gumming up the works in Slavers Bay are reaching everywhere.

Any fanboy technicality that makes Dany a slaver could also make Stannis a slaver yet they work with him.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Anti. No matter the slavery thing she has dragons.

Any fanboy technicality that makes Dany a slaver could also make Stannis a slaver yet they work with him.

Wut?

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I mean Dany has clearly made an anti slavery stance. Sure anybody can say yeh but this thing happened so technically makes her a slaver.

You can do that with anybody in the novels, like when Tyrion notes there's no real difference in being a servant in Westeros or slave in Essos.

I doubt Braavos is thinking Dany is going to swoop in and kidnap masses and make them be slaves anymore than they think Stannis could do it

[Mithras]

In terms of politics, Braavos must be a fool to be anti-Dany. Basic politics require that they should be allies with her.

Think this way. Braavos is a state. Dany is a person. So the correct question should be "Will Braavos be pro or anti Danystate?"

So what is Danystate?

It is a state in Meeren ruled by Dany where slavery is by no means legal. There are many former slaves within this city. Its army consists of freed slaves. There are many different religious worship going on without any interference from the state.

This sounds very much like Braavos.

Therefore the state Dany building is more or less like Braavos. Given the damage Dany has done to Slaver economy, Braavos is the natural ally of Dany. All the slaver nations are in open war with Danystate and the most important of them is Volantis, the archenemy of Braavos. Her dragons are nuclear weapons. Braavos will be pro Dany and at the same time, they will try to find a way to eliminate those nuclear weapons, in case of something goes wrong.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Therefore the state Dany building is more or less like Braavos. Given the damage Dany has done to Slaver economy, Braavos is the natural ally of Dany. All the slaver nations are in open war with Danystate and the most important of them is Volantis, the archenemy of Braavos. Her dragons are nuclear weapons. Braavos will be pro Dany and at the same time, they will try to find a way to eliminate those nuclear weapons, in case of something goes wrong.

I think the question is, what does the plot require? Will the Braavosi figure out Dany's intention without misinterpreting? This is not a given, since at times I think Dany is not sure what she wants herself. Will their sympathy for the intions be overshadowed by the fact that the Dragons are the source of Dany's power? It is often being said that power corrupts. Might the Bravoosi/FM/"Pate" know something about Dragons and their masters that we don't? Could they think that inevitably Dany will turn away from her intentions, "corrupted" by the magical-psychological influence of the Dragons?

I think all those are viable options to keep the story going.

[Fightbringer]

Well probably anti dany, the dragons and anti slavery things make it difficult to say, but given they have already backed Stannis they cant really support her now