Cersei's prophecy

[Jon of the Dead]

Snow White, duh.

No, I think:

- Margaery was a clear red herring and I don't think her trial with the Faith will turn out allright.

- Dany is still too far away to make an impact just yet

My money is on Sansa and Arianne, but leaning more towards the latter because Dorne is in a position to take out Myrcella, Tommen (when the Sand snakes hit KL), and the throne if Arianne marries Aegon. But then again, Sansa could end up marrying Aegon herself.

[Iona]

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds"

I've had this eerie feeling that this actually might not refer to coronations, but the hair colour of Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. They are "crowned" with golden locks, which in the end will be the death of them all - meaning they will be killed for being the little abominations born of incest that they are. It calls for a little speculation on Joffrey's part, since the most obvious reason for poisoning him (if the Tyrells actually did it) was that he was an obnoxious brat, but one might argue that his personality is in fact caused by being born of incest between two Lannisters...

If the accusations against Cercei are confirmed in her trial or in some other way, I could see Tommen and Myrcella getting their heads lopped off. :(

[Rahgh Neqaj]

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds"

I've had this eerie feeling that this actually might not refer to coronations, but the hair colour of Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. They are "crowned" with golden locks, which in the end will be the death of them all - meaning they will be killed for being the little abominations born of incest that they are. It calls for a little speculation on Joffrey's part, since the most obvious reason for poisoning him (if the Tyrells actually did it) was that he was an obnoxious brat, but one might argue that his personality is in fact caused by being born of incest between two Lannisters...

If the accusations against Cercei are confirmed in her trial or in some other way, I could see Tommen and Myrcella getting their heads lopped off. :(

Nice point but I guess what ultimately got Joffrey killed was being raised as future king by Robert the Unworthy and Cersei the Maniac.

[aceluby]

I have a strong feeling that 'when your tears have drowned you' is important and underexamined

Great catch! CR is by the sea, so it could be a literal drowning of sorts, or it could be metaphorical as she drinks herself silly.

[Iona]

Nice point but I guess what ultimately got Joffrey killed was being raised as future king by Robert the Unworthy and Cersei the Maniac.

Yep, that's the weak point. Otherwise I would have already patted myself on the back for coming up with something like that! :D

[grand old duke of stark]

I'm going totally out on a limb here and saying Jeyne Westerling will be the YMBQ - just can't help thinking there'd be some poetic justice in that.

While I agree with several that Margaery is the likeliest, why not Jeyne or Sansa or Arianne or Arya or even Val? Simply because GRRM loves to sneak things in from left field, I think he's going to use someone Cersei is not alert to. Being obsessed with Maggy's prophecy for years, Cersei is probably thinking Marg or maybe Dany once she hits Westeros. Whoever it is, it probably won't be someone obvious.

[complexphoenix]

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds"

I've had this eerie feeling that this actually might not refer to coronations, but the hair colour of Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. They are "crowned" with golden locks, which in the end will be the death of them all - meaning they will be killed for being the little abominations born of incest that they are. It calls for a little speculation on Joffrey's part, since the most obvious reason for poisoning him (if the Tyrells actually did it) was that he was an obnoxious brat, but one might argue that his personality is in fact caused by being born of incest between two Lannisters...

If the accusations against Cercei are confirmed in her trial or in some other way, I could see Tommen and Myrcella getting their heads lopped off. :(

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds" may refer to them having golden Lannister hair and golden Baratheon cloaks, i.e., they are Lannisters pretending to be Baratheons.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Cersei think it's Margaery and readers are led to think it's Dany, and I'm of the opinion that it's neither.

My top three candidates, in order of preference, are:

1. Sansa.

2. Cersei herself — when she was younger and more beautiful, she put into motion events that would later cause her own downfall.

3. Brienne — the "beauty," who could end up taking Jaime from her; beauty being used ironically.

[WhiteOwl18]

Cersei think it's Margaery and readers are led to think it's Dany, and I'm of the opinion that it's neither.

My top three candidates, in order of preference, are:

1. Sansa.

2. Cersei herself — when she was younger and more beautiful, she put into motion events that would later cause her own downfall.

3. Brienne — the "beauty," who could end up taking Jaime from her; beauty being used ironically.

Or it's not talking about physical beauty, and it was yet another thing that Cersei misinterpreted.

[complexphoenix]

Now that I think about it, the second part of the prophecy - "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear." - has arguably been fulfilled as of the end of ADWD. Kevan notes that Cersei was a queen when she was garbed in gold and silk and emeralds, but naked and shorn she was only human. The implication is that Cersei is no longer queen, she has been cast down and all her power has been taken away from her, and soon her son will be taken from her as well. Margaery has already succeeded in casting her down and taking all she holds dear.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Or it's not talking about physical beauty, and it was yet another thing that Cersei misinterpreted.

Also possible!

Now that I think about it, the second part of the prophecy - "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear." - has arguably been fulfilled as of the end of ADWD. Kevan notes that Cersei was a queen when she was garbed in gold and silk and emeralds, but naked and shorn she was only human. The implication is that Cersei is no longer queen, she has been cast down and all her power has been taken away from her, and soon her son will be taken from her as well. Margaery has already succeeded in casting her down and taking all she holds dear.

But doesn't that sort of imply that Margaery has actually done something deliberate to ruin Cersei or cast her down? Where Cersei is now, she has no one to blame but herself. She was the one trying to ruin Margaery, not so much the other way around.

[Alia of the knife]

I think it's what Cersei thinks and who she perceives as a rival to herself, and how the "one" will impact her.

She has seen Sansa, Margaery, and probably is aware of Arianne, and particularly with the former, she is unimpressed. Margaery serves to bedevil her the way Tywin once kept her at Court to bedevil Elia, because I'm sure Elia knew why she was there and what Tywins motives were.

It could be Dany, but my money is on Arya.

She will not have seen Arya since she was a child, and an adult Arya will likely remind of the wildly beautiful woman who once commanded the affections of BOTH the men she wanted- Rhaegar and Robert.

And Ned did tell Arya that one day she would marry a king..............

I think Jaimie will be the one to kill her, as they came into this world together grasping onto one another. It's possible she gets the Malmsey treatment a la George of Clarence, and drowns in a vat of wine, but I think she and Jaimie go out together.

[Castellan]

I have a strong feeling that 'when your tears have drowned you' is important and underexamined

There is something strong about that phrase .. I keep thinking of the tears of Lys, and I also keep having an image of two people drowning and the white hands of one wrapping around the other's neck....but have no 'theory'.

[rickon4kinginthenorth]

Most likely dany my reasoning is in the prophecy it says a more beautiful queen will overthrow her sorry can't think of the exact quote.cersei when she married robert was considered the most beautiful woman in westeroes so that right there eliminates margery and arienne for me.dany is the most beautiful woman in the world so that adds up to me.until I read people talking about sansa I never even considered that and honestly I would love to see sansa take cersei down.so I think its either dany or sansa but more likely dany.idk just my opinion

[Bearson]

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds" may refer to them having golden Lannister hair and golden Baratheon cloaks, i.e., they are Lannisters pretending to be Baratheons.

Agree. It doesn't actually say that her children will die before she does. I think the "golden shrouds" they will be covered in when they die, simply refers to how the Realm has been made aware that they are Lannister bastards, and that at some point (probably after the trial) they'll be publicly named as thus and thus can never be laid to rest in the Baratheon colours.

[King of Winters]

If the build up of the first couple books is any indication, it will be Sansa.

:agree: Maggy doesn't say the younger more beautiful queen, so I think Sansa will be the one.

[SandyRobes]

It could very well be meant not to be taken literally, but the prophecy says that the valonqar will "wrap his hands around Cersei's neck to kill her"

And in his current condition I don't see Jaime using strangulation as his primary means of murder, even with his golden hand.

Just a thought. I still think Jaime is the most likely candidate, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone coming out of left field, as per GRRM's MO.

[Mayura]

I used to think Marg was the younger more beautiful queen. She is the one who makes more sense.

But what makes me unsure is that Cersei seems to jump to the conclusion that Marg must be that queen. And I have a guts feeling (only that) that tells me Cersei is likely mistaking about the identity of the valonqar and of the younger queen.

It is true that Cersei's downfall has started. And that there is another queen around (the young queen Margaery). But the prophecy also says "queen you shall be until there comes another". I had never thought of it before but the "until comes another" might indicate that there will be a time where Cersei will not be queen anymore and will be replaced by another queen.

It would be interesting if the younger queen proved to be someone Cersei had never though about as someone who could be dangerous for her, like Sansa or even Daenerys. I also like he suggestion of Brienne the Beauty but I fail to see how she could be the other "queen" :-)

Sorry my post didn't add much but I enjoy this discussion

[complexphoenix]

It would be interesting if the younger queen proved to be someone Cersei had never though about as someone who could be dangerous for her, like Sansa or even Daenerys. I also like he suggestion of Brienne the Beauty but I fail to see how she could be the other "queen" :-)

You know, Maggy didn't say "another queen" she simply said "another". It could mean "another woman" or even "another person" although it doesn't seem especially likely.

[Alia of the knife]

Faegon