mankytoes Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 His sister's horrible end aside, Oberyn struck me as a guy who loved life. Whether he was fighting, loving, getting bored forging Maester chain links, whatever, I felt that he relished living and had as much fun as he could. I don't think he would have thrown that away on purpose. Poor guy just got caught up in the moment and let his sure victory make him cocky and careless.I agree, he isn't the sacrificial type at all. I'm certain he didn't intend to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand old duke of stark Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I agree, he isn't the sacrificial type at all. I'm certain he didn't intend to die. Agreed. And it's more than getting cocky too. I think he was so stunned that he had finally wrung a confession from Gregor that it blew his mind. He was probably thinking. "I did it! I did it! I got the bastard!" when the bastard came back and got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Not buying it, Dorne would have risen even if he'd lived. Doran still planned to destroy the Lannisters and get the Targaryens back in power. He made a stupid decision and paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMikes Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think he just was a bit too cocky. He had confidence enough to believe he could kill the Mountain. He was right on that front, his skill was high and he effectively killed the Mountain fairly easily. However, he underestimated Gregor, and got himself killed as well. From what we know of Oberyn, he wasn't the type to sacrifice himself for something such as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gort Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Agreed. And it's more than getting cocky too. I think he was so stunned that he had finally wrung a confession from Gregor that it blew his mind. He was probably thinking. "I did it! I did it! I got the bastard!" when the bastard came back and got him. Actually, the confession comes once Gregor grabbed hold of and grappled with Oberyn. While inflicting the mortal wounds, Gregor shouts out what he did to Elia and her "whelp" with each blow. Still, yeah, the "I did it! I did it! I got the bastard!" feeling does seem to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand old duke of stark Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Actually, the confession comes once Gregor grabbed hold of and grappled with Oberyn. While inflicting the mortal wounds, Gregor shouts out what he did to Elia and her "whelp" with each blow. Still, yeah, the "I did it! I did it! I got the bastard!" feeling does seem to be the case. You are absolutely right. The part of me that loves Oberyn always wishes he could have somehow escaped his grasp even then. But probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I'm pretty sure if he'd had the slightest suspicion that he might lose he would have used a faster poison, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I don't think he died on purpose but I don't think he minded dying knowing he finally got justice for his sister. In the scheme of things he got the better end of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 No. I think the confession was more important to him than the win. Maybe even, in the moment, more important than survival. But I don't think it goes any deeper than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I don't think he died on purpose but I don't think he minded dying knowing he finally got justice for his sister. In the scheme of things he got the better end of the deal. You know Gregor had it bad, when getting your eyes gouged out is preferable to his fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagon Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I'm sure he was fully willing to fight to the death, but not to sacrifice himself for the hell of it. What I took away from it was that he got really emotional and was knocked off balance, leading to his painful, crushing end. He definitely cared more about the confession than he did his own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaSome Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 No, no joke. Of course I read the fight scene and of course he was the better fighter. But could he end the duel alive AND achieve his goal of a slow, painful death for Gregor? NO! Neither Gregor nor Oberyn are yielders (or fainters) which means one person had to die. And if Gregor is to die slowly, then Oberyn has to die in order for the duel to end. His cockiness was just a show to cover up deliberate suicide.Oberyn could've just stood right outside of Gregors reach who had a spear through him and was losing tons of blood. Gregor was close to falling unconscious as it was, a few more minutes and he would have...it's inevitable. AND once Gregor was unconscious he could've delivered the final blow AND survived. Instead Oberyn picked up Gregors weapon and loss focus just for a split second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagon Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Oberyn could've just stood right outside of Gregors reach who had a spear through him and was losing tons of blood. Gregor was close to falling unconscious as it was, a few more minutes and he would have...it's inevitable. AND once Gregor was unconscious he could've delivered the final blow AND survived. Instead Oberyn picked up Gregors weapon and loss focus just for a split second... Yea, that was weird and pretty foolish. I just chalked it up to him being extremely emotional, which is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaSome Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yea, that was weird and pretty foolish. I just chalked it up to him being extremely emotional, which is understandable.Yeah, sadly...very dumb way for one of the series most interesting characters to die...The confession is what he was really after...50/50 chance Gregor would've gotten mad enough to admit it with Oberyn watching him slowly die repeatedly asking for the confession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think Oberyn wanted Clegane to suffer, no matter what, to squeeze the confession out of him, and like I said earlier, with enough pain involved the Mountain may have even ratted Tywin out in the hopes of having Oberyn finish him. I really don't appreciate people writing Oberyn off as being cocky or arrogant in the end. Hey, in addition to numerous wounds in strategical places your opponent has lost his sword, is pinned on the ground by having your spear through his stomach with blood quickly pooling under him and is so weak he can't get up. I wouldn't call it cocky if you think you have the upper hand in a situation like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 A strange possiblity has come to me. What if Oberyn put and additional substance into the poison? There are some drugs used to make the man you are interrogating "talk". Did we have any clue of such a substance in the series? If so, I would be 100% sure that Oberyn used that substance and Mountain's final confession is caused by that. Those confessions were very unexpected from him, although he was terribly wounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahgh Neqaj Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 A strange possiblity has come to me. What if Oberyn put and additional substance into the poison? There are some drugs used to make the man you are interrogating "talk". Did we have any clue of such a substance in the series? If so, I would be 100% sure that Oberyn used that substance and Mountain's final confession is caused by that. Those confessions were very unexpected from him, although he was terribly wounded.The poison was certainly modified - both Pycelle and Qyburn recognize it although Qyburn has a far better idea of the exact modifications done to the poison. But I would assume that we'd have at least heard of truth serum already if there had been such a thing. Even if it's the rarest substance in Planetos, everyone would want some to interrogate his/her prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tydides Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 might be, but i always saw it as him losing rational thought in the heat of battle. cool thought, and i actually could see it happening, but i dont think it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhoynar Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Actually, it would make sense and wouldn't be out of character for Oberyn. There's only way to win a trial by combat: to kill your opponent. Maybe Oberyn wanted Gregor to die slowly and painfully and thus he had to die. I think he would be the kind of man to sacrifice himself just to inflict pain on his sister's murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Actually, it would make sense and wouldn't be out of character for Oberyn. There's only way to win a trial by combat: to kill your opponent. Maybe Oberyn wanted Gregor to die slowly and painfully and thus he had to die. I think he would be the kind of man to sacrifice himself just to inflict pain on his sister's murderer.Not at that cost. I could've seen something like this happening right after the rebellion, but now? He had a family, children, and seemed to enjoy life way to much to die.(Also, the title made me giggle. I was like, how do you even die on purpose? Then I realized what it meant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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