It's likely that whoever holds Harrenhal is the most powerful secondary riverlands house, not the Freys.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Riverlands are full of people. They just couldn't be moblized fast enough during the war - Freys could, because no one attacked their territory. They are on of largest minor houses, but not that powerful after all.

Pre Wof5k's there are 27 noble Houses in the Riverlands and according to Ran have between 40-45k troops. Now we know that the Freys raised 4k fairly easily and it's fair to say that the Tullys could probably muster a similar number of troops. That gives the average Riverland noble house an average somewhere between 1.2-1.5k soldiers, which obviously gets lower for every House that can raise more than that so to give Harrenhal the same troops as Riverrun and the Twins that would leave the average military even lower.

Now what we know of the Riverlands is that the Houses, unlike say the Reach, has had far more equality between their Houses as there was no one main superpower and it's only through outside forces like the Ironborn or the Targs were they have had to bend the knee.

The Brackens and Blackwoods have been competing for centuries, which means that they have to be fairly equal in size and power as the animosity between the two would of lead to a winner by now. The Butterwells were so influential that they, like the Whents, also held grand tourney's and have had two Hands to the King while a Lord Mooten was given the command of the Targ troops at the Field of Fire which suggests that they are not some small territory either.

Numerically speaking it just does not make sense that, Tullys apart, any other Riverlord could raise more than 5k.

[Minstral]

Perhaps in time Harrenhal could be made into a wealthy bit of land that can field a number of men, but the key is time. There is a reason that the Whents surrendered at the onset of the hostilities with the Lannisters and that is they no longer possessed the men to defend their own lands. Moreover, as numerous armies have used it as a base of operation in the War, and almost all of them having a good track record of atrocities, I would wager that most of the people that live on the lands have fled.

[Fightbringer]

It really does seem that after the great and awesome tournament of Harrhenhall, the Whents... went broke. Perhaps they came down on the wrong side of Robert's Rebellion, and their power-base shrank accordingly afterward? Hoster was renown for burning and pillaging everything resembling a royalist amongst his own bannermen's holdings, and likewise the royalist houses tended to suffer lost lands and incomes after the rebellion.

true, maybe the power of Harrenhal is diminished by that, I doubt that they would have fought against the targs when oswell was on that side

[Viserion-Dracarys]

Hard to tell, Hoster's own wife was a Whent so Cat and Edmure/Lysa are half Whent.

Yes, that is what I was wondering - don't they (or Edmure more specifically) have a claim to Harrenhal?

[Siddard Stark]

Well all Whent men were slain during the rebellion...............i might be wrong!!!!That is the reason house Whent is very weak when the Lannisters attack the Riverlands...............plus Lady Whent is a very weak ruler!!!

[tydides]

Ya, in my mind, Harrenhal could be the most powerful Riverlands (non-paramount) house, but realistically, it is not. It doesn't look like the holders of the castle are all that powerful. Their is probably not too much loyalty to their lords, as they change frequently. In war, as shown, they are not able to put up a fight as harrenhal is hard to defend. So what are they actually powerful in? They might be able to grow quite a bit of food and collect a bunch of tax revenue (im guessing these areas are pretty well populated). So they are pretty well off for lords, but they live in a land that is both highly profitable to acquire (big castle, rich lands) and nearly impossible to defend. They also are probably rivals to the Tullys, as Harrenhal is an icon and others may see them as powerful, regardless of the truth. Smaller houses nearby may not feel akin to them, as each house is fairly new. Anyone outside the riverlands probably does not care. So they are friendless, ineffective militarily, and probably have disloyal subjects.

[paramount]

In my opinion it is the complete opposite and I don't blame lady Whent.

When Harren the Black created Harrenhal he had one style, large. It is because of this that Harrenhal fell so quickly to Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton and Gregor Clegane.

Harrenhal is near impossible to defend without a massive force garrisoning it. When it doesn't have enough troops it is near useless and impossible to defend. The lords of Harrenhal have probably poured all their funds into maintaining the near useless castle.

Lady Whent may well have been a good seige commander we don't know about her style of leadership.

Both Riverrun and Raventree held out far longer than what Harrenhal ever could of.

[Blackfish Tully]

In my opinion it is the complete opposite and I don't blame lady Whent.

When Harren the Black created Harrenhal he had one style, large. It is because of this that Harrenhal fell so quickly to Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton and Gregor Clegane.

Harrenhal is near impossible to defend without a massive force garrisoning it. When it doesn't have enough troops it is near useless and impossible to defend. The lords of Harrenhal have probably poured all their funds into maintaining the near useless castle.

Lady Whent may well have been a good seige commander we don't know about her style of leadership.

Both Riverrun and Raventree held out far longer than what Harrenhal ever could of.

If Harrenhall had a competent commander like the Blackfish or Stannis in charge then Tywin would think twice about even trying to lay siege to it. The walls and gates are massive and it would take a tremendous loss of life to take it. The walls are said to be as large an mountain cliffs so going over the walls would be very difficult . The gates must be massive so they would be difficult to knock down.

Lady Whent really screwed over the Riverlands and Robb when she handed over Harrenhall to Tywin.

[smashedhalo]

I have a theory that the faith will take the castle. The sparrows are mainly from the riverlands and the holy hundred is already there. With Cercie "re-arming" the faith, they'll acquire the disused castle and with all the free labor fortify the castle again.

It'll be under the pretence of defending the septs, being able to ride forth and seek "justice" for the faith. Then when the dragons come, history repeats itself and a fresh batch of roasted dumb people.

Inquisition style actions by the Faith, followed by a grand funeral pier comeupons. And then to maintain some credibility, anyone that survives with claimed those that burned were heritics and claim the dragons were sent to cleans the stain on the faith.

Just a thought as to what the final use of a huge castle with be.

[paramount]

If Harrenhall had a competent commander like the Blackfish or Stannis in charge then Tywin would think twice about even trying to lay siege to it. The walls and gates are massive and it would take a tremendous loss of life to take it. The walls are said to be as large an mountain cliffs so going over the walls would be very difficult . The gates must be massive so they would be difficult to knock down.

Lady Whent really screwed over the Riverlands and Robb when she handed over Harrenhall to Tywin.

Lady Whent yielded Harrenhal because she didn't have enough men to defend it. Harrenhal is a massive and formidable castle however unless you have a massive garrison inside the city one part would always be undefended and thereby easy to take. Harrenhal is only strong if it has enough men to defend it and Harrenhal is miles long which means it needs a massive garrison.

It was also a good thing for Lady Whent to yield to Tywin as she wouldn't have been able to hold Harrenhal for much longer. Also what mentions Lady Whent as being a bad siege commander I just think Harrenhal is impossible to defend. Harrenhal also fell with ease to Gregor Clegane when he captured the castle off Vargo Hoat who didn't have enough men.

[Blackfish Tully]

Lady Whent yielded Harrenhal because she didn't have enough men to defend it. Harrenhal is a massive and formidable castle however unless you have a massive garrison inside the city one part would always be undefended and thereby easy to take. Harrenhal is only strong if it has enough men to defend it and Harrenhal is miles long which means it needs a massive garrison.

It was also a good thing for Lady Whent to yield to Tywin as she wouldn't have been able to hold Harrenhal for much longer. Also what mentions Lady Whent as being a bad siege commander I just think Harrenhal is impossible to defend. Harrenhal also fell with ease to Gregor Clegane when he captured the castle off Vargo Hoat who didn't have enough men.

Lady Whent was old and tired and that's why she yielded the castle. When your walls are as high as mountains and your gates are massive then you do not need many men to defend it. You put the Blackfish in charge at the beginning of the war and I guarantee that Harrenhall never falls.

[paramount]

Lady Whent was old and tired and that's why she yielded the castle. When your walls are as high as mountains and your gates are massive then you do not need many men to defend it. You put the Blackfish in charge at the beginning of the war and I guarantee that Harrenhall never falls.

Harrenhal is on a flatland and has no natural defenses which make the Eyrie, Riverrun and Storm's End formidable. Amory Lorch, Lady Whent were all lost Harrenhal. To defend Harrenhal you have to disperse most of the garrison across the walls making the castle vulnerable.

[new djinn]

Why would you assume that the Whents weren't stripped of some of their lands for fighting against Robert and the Tullys? The Conningtons used to be a big deal, as were the Peakes, Butterwells and Westerlings.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Why would you assume that the Whents weren't stripped of some of their lands for fighting against Robert and the Tullys? The Conningtons used to be a big deal, as were the Peakes, Butterwells and Westerlings.

We don't know which side they fought on, Hoster was married to a Whent so they may have sides with Robert.

[joluoto2]

Anyone holding harrenhal should be the 2nd most powerful house in the riverlands. They Whents were very powerful during Arey's Reign. They lost all their heirs in the battle of the Trident. Lady Whent was a weak ruler.I recon if their was a lord at harrenhal with a couple of heirs things would have been completely different as they wouldn't have meekly submitted to Tywin. They would have kept decent number of men-at-arms to defend Harrenhal. And speaking strategically i would have called up all of my bannerman hearing the lannisters are advancing to harrenhal. The Whents could have inflicted serious casualties if tywin decided to storm harrenhal. If Tywin decides a siege than another battle of the camps could have happened!!!

The Whents were probably broke though, which is the reason Lady Whent did not have a host that could defy the Lannisters. Holding Harrenhal always make you broke in the end. The riches all goes to trying to keep that ruin as a semi functional castle.

[Timmet Lord of the Vale]

If some House would take a seat at Harrenhal, with competent leaders, an agenda and of course enough time, then it could be one of the most powerful seats in the entire realm, not only the Riverlands. But due to turmoil and constant change of ruling houses it cant reach its full potential. On the other hand its really too big to sustain and it sucks a lot of money, because maintenance costs are so high.

[Blackfish Tully]

Harrenhal is on a flatland and has no natural defenses which make the Eyrie, Riverrun and Storm's End formidable. Amory Lorch, Lady Whent were all lost Harrenhal. To defend Harrenhal you have to disperse most of the garrison across the walls making the castle vulnerable.

nobody lost Harrenhall because it was taken in a siege. Lady Whent gave it up and Amory Lorch and Vargo Holt were both betrayed inside the castle . We have never seen anybody storm the castle.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

If some House would take a seat at Harrenhal, with competent leaders, an agenda and of course enough time, then it could be one of the most powerful seats in the entire realm, not only the Riverlands. But due to turmoil and constant change of ruling houses it cant reach its full potential. On the other hand its really too big to sustain and it sucks a lot of money, because maintenance costs are so high.

It is impossible to say as we dont know how much land and revenue the area generates. Harren the Black was a King generating tax incomes from the entire Riverlands and Iron Islands, it might have taken that kind of wealth to sustain the upkeep of the lands.

We also don't know the if the size of the lands has remained the same since House Qoherys as some of the Lords who have held the Lands since that time may have lost land as a punishment from the Crown.

[Arakan]

Seat of a king.

Extensive, fertile lands.

They held the tournament of the era.

The Freys have a bridge.

Right now Harrenhal is just a big ugly ruin. Unless we know how big the fief is in terms of land and people it will remain just a big ugly ruin.

[Blackfish Tully]

Right now Harrenhal is just a big ugly ruin. Unless we know how big the fief is in terms of land and people it will remain just a big ugly ruin.

Some of the towers may be ruined but the walls are still in great shape and it has a very strategic location right between the Vale and the Riverlands. If Littlefinger can take control of the Riverlands and Vale he would have the men to garrison Harrenhall and he would control the middle part of the Seven Kingdoms and he would be a major player in who will win the Game of Thrones.