WLU Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Now, let's all imagine the glorious freedom of a pair of eyes with no brain attached to them. If you scratch out 'pair of eyes' and put in 'body', you've just described the majority of Goodkind's fan base. Has 'Putting the lie to your purpose' (our purpose?) been used as a title yet? I think that would make a good one. I second this suggestion - it's had enough use here and Terryfascist.net to have cachet. I’d like to stop for just a moment and ask a serious question....I would, in all seriousness, like to ask what exactly people think the appeal of Goodkind really is. Goodkind's appeal is like McDonald's appeal. It's quick and easy to eat (read), it tastes good (it is satisfying on a basic level), it's easy to digest but wreaks havoc on your body (it takes very little reflection to swallow and destroys your ability to critically analyze), and if you really thought about what goes into it, you wouldn't eat there (actual reflection reveals the intensely harmful, shallow and desensitizing nature of the writing and world). Goodkind's writing taps into basic human instincts, and I mean like, caveman basic. It's the same instincts that make you slow down for a car accident, turn and look when you think you see a naked person, and cheer on [national event] Day. It's the novel equivalent of a slasher flick - a bit of violence, a bit of tits, and in the end the good guy wins. It's not news, its olds. It's Cops, Montel, Sally Jesse, TLC presents the World's Fattest Man. It's news about the guy who kept a girl locked in his basement for 5 years then killed himself on a set of railroad tracks. Worse, it's a fly-on-the-wall view of what happened in the basement, then the train running over his head. It's every movie where the good guy gets beat to a pulp, but somehow manages to get up and win. It's the War on Drugs propoganda without the CIA forcing people to chose between growing the only viable crop in their dry, nutrient depleted soil while there's a gun pointed to their head or starving. People want to see gross things, horrible things, but they also want in the end to see the bad guys punished and the good guys to win. Everyone is safe, even if they have to go through something harrowing in the end, the main people are safe. Richard will get tortured again and again, Klan will get almost raped, but you know they will never die, or actually be raped. Richard and Klan can get away with whatever they want because they are right, the people are right, not their actions. It reduces the world to simple things, we never have to wonder who is right, who we should cheer for, because no matter what, it is always Richard. The complicated world is distilled down to a simple fact of 'believe in this person, and you are correct'. It's the same simple view of the world that gets America criticized in foreign policy, so there's already a built-in audience for it. 300 million bored people with tremendous disposable income and a pre-existing penchant for unquestioning acceptance of 'the good guys' (Fox 'News' and CNN), who are already fed a steady diet of violence, sex, black-and-white good and evil on the evening news, freaks and titilation, the moral restraints of the Bible along with constant access to everything the Bible is against, all wrapped up in the idea that an action can be good or bad because of who does it, rather than what is done or why. On top of that, it's got a 'you can do anything if you try it, because you are soooo smart' invincible superman who is good at everything (when really he's not smart, he's magically enhanced) that we all wanted to be when we were kids that we can live out our fantasies in. Plus, he's got a hot girlfriend who's demure and pure when in public but has a turboslut switch he can flip on whenever he wants. And she's not quite as smart as he is, she always listens, and when she does disagree, she's always wrong. In short, Goodkind provides a series of voyeuristic narratives which maintain a gruesome level of contrived tension, in easy language, with a protagonist we always wanted to be, lots of naughty bits, all wrapped in a ridiculously uncomplicated worldview that simplifies problems down to cushy decisions that generally can be solved with some speech showing how smart you are (against a straw opponent) or a sword. The villain always wears a black hat and the hero always gets the girl (who is a cheerleader in public and a harlot in the bedroom). All decisions are easy and all problems are resolved in 700 pages or less. Or to be really short, it supports the idea of an world free from doubt. But that's just what I think. Side note - if I have to read one more time about how the Mud People 'jabber' I'm gonna fucking lose it. The few other people who speak a different language don't 'jabber', they talk. His contempt for any non-European descent people makes my knuckles itch. And Richard's 'no, you'll do it my way because I said so and I'm important' utter disregard for their traditions also pisses me off. Traditions in societies exist for a reason, to keep the society functioning within the culture and environment in which evolved for hundreds to thousands of years. The contempt for primitive people because they are not casting off their historic cultures and embracing the 'modern' lifestyle with all of its attendant fragementation, alienation, isolation and general interpersonal shittiness really aggravates me. We may have more stuff than a tribal herdsman, but he has a family that is much closer and loving, and if a nuclear war broke out, he's far less likely to resort to cannibalism than I am because he can actually take care of himself. To show contempt for them because they don't 'choose' our life (and that's the implied criticism in all the 'jabbering') is ignorant and short-sited. And how does a single village of people survive? Who are they related to? A single village, assuming perhaps a couple hundred people would inbreed themselves out of existence within six generations. His 'I do important human themes, not worldbuilding' is such a cop-out for crappy writing and continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Good gods, WLU. I'm linking this post in AIM when I get home. Quick! Whelp! Post this on Malaz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beniowa Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 :bow: :bow: WLU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Will Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Wow! Thank you for taking my question seriously. I feel slightly humbled. ...but will you give me just a little bit of WoT fanfic wish fulfilment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Oh, and to add, WLU, I completely agree. Especially the connection between what I will term 'idiot America' and those who enjoy Tary's drivel. It's so much easier for them to live in a black and white world with no moral qualms and no areas of gray. It's so much easier to never have to think. A serious and growing problem in America, it's a terrifying trend. This would seem to me the logical explanation for why most Tary fans are Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agulla Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Months ago I wrote a parody about what was going to happen when the SoT want through the production process and the movie/series executives found out some of the most controversial elements. It seems that what I wrote also happened to be a parody of a movie/series/advertising I have never watched and like that it can be found in MinDonner's great site. This last talk about the series has prompted me to continue the parody. I'm afraid that this one will fall into the category of "segundas partes nunca fueron buenas" (a Spanish saying than can be easily translated from weirdo cultural diversity jabber as: "second parts were never good") but I cannot let a Goodkind threat goes by without doing my altruist lemming of discord part. So here you have my latest efford. The making of SoT (the Series). The three movie honchos and the Movie Honcho 2’s reliable public relations assistant are sitting in his office. The public relations assistant is at the phone breaking some disquieting news to the world’s most successful fantasy, sorry my mistake, self help novels writer. P.R. Assistant: “...yes, yes of course, I know that in the book is different but we are not sure that the viewers will approve of a hero that kicks a little girl in the face, even if he was completely justified in his actions because he had been tortured and the eight years old girl was threatening to do terrible things to the hero’s love interest...yes Kahlan." The P.R. Assistant makes a face as the author shouts something. P.R. Assistant: “You are right Mr G, can I call you Mister G? Good, you are right, those viewers that cannot understand this are not mature enough to watch the series but unfortunately our sponsors think otherwise." The author speaks for a long time; The P.R. Assistant looks at the movie honchos and shakes her head as he keeps going on and on. Finally, the half an hour long tirade runs out of steam and she can say something. P.R. Assistant: “Yes, yes Mister G, the sponsors are just a bunch of pinko-commie-euro-canadian traitors to the American way, but the money is theirs and they care about it. A fairly capitalist mentality, we have to give them that." The Movie Honcho 2 thumbs up at this and the other two nod. P.R. Assistant: “We will have to cave to their prejudices and we are as much upset as you are, really. But look at the bright side, in fact, in what respect to the book’s philosophy Violet’s age is not important, right? This time the author has less things to say and because of this he keeps talking for more than an hour. P.R. Assistant: “Yes, we have already talked about the peace protestors and the tortures. We will have to handle the peace protestors thing with care now that things in Iraq are not going as neatly as we would have liked...†The three movie honchos can hear the author’s words, he seems to be quite distressed. P.R. Assistant: “Yes, it’s the liberals’ fault, you are right again Mister G, but this is how things are. We cannot kill peace protestors on screen because part of our target audience would have an adverse reaction to it and move to other series." More angry words from the author, now mercifully only the P.R. Assistant can hear them. P.R. Assistant: “According to our sources a great part of our target audience are sci-fi and fantasy fansâ€. The author explodes in another fit of rage. The movie honchos look at each other worried. P.R. Assistant: “We know, we know, you do not write fantasy and precisely your books are the way to bring your message of truth to so many deluded fantasy readers. We intend to do the same here, with the series. Just imagine millions of fans of The Lord of the Rings, Lost, Heroes and Galactica waiting for a deeper and more meaningful philosophy, ready for it." The author says something more and the P.R. Assistant nods and smiles reassuringly to the three movie honchos. P.R. Assistant: The torture we thought it was perfect but then our surveys indicated that the audience is getting tired of it. Of course it’s stupid, why on Earth would someone get tired of torture? But you know how audience is, just a few seasons of “24†with Jack Bauer interrogating terrorist and they lose their nerve. We were thinking about leaving tortures out of screen, they happen but they are not shown." Things seem to be going better, or at least this is what the P.R. Assistant tells them. P.R. Assistant: "I agree, sacrifices are to be made, just like we will have to do with the speeches." Again she has to separate her ear from the phone in order to save her hearing ability for the future. P.R. Assistant: “We sympathise with you but if we have to insert those speeches the series will be thrice long. We have found a solution to this problem; we will put the speeches in the Collector Special Edition DVD!†Movie Honcho 2 tells the other two: “I told you she was goodâ€. P.R. Assistant: “Yes, yes, it will be good for you too because millions of people will buy this collectors edition at a higher price, there they will find a twenty DVD extra feature with the speeches of truth. The conversation continues but it seems that Mister G has been calmed, when it’s finally over the three Movie Honchos congratulate the PR assistant. Movie Honcho 2: “It’s been amazing, well doneâ€! P.R. Assistant: “Thank you but it was easy, you have to remember that I was the one that had to tell J.R.R. Tolkien about what Peter Jackson was going to do with his booksâ€. Movie Honcho 1: “That was tough, yeah, I remember; the most stressing séance I’ve ever attendedâ€. Movie Honcho 3: “Were you serious about the Collector’s Special Edition?†P.R. Assistant: “Yes, we have no other option here; this is the only way to appease him. We will not need to produce a large quantity of that Collector’s Edition thoughâ€. Movie Honcho 3: “How many?†P.R. Assistant: “Don’t know for sure. How many people post in his forums?†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLU Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 All of your worship makes my thing rise. But, y'know, in a non-jaw-kickey sort of way. When my thing rises, I just give puppies small taps on the backside. I'm such a sissy. Good gods, WLU. I'm linking this post in AIM when I get home. Quick! Whelp! Post this on Malaz! Please do, please do. I'm currently on page 44 of the SoT/Goodkind thread on malazanempire and I crave the fame of spreading to another board. If only I could get them to post it on yeardigoodkind.net. This was the basic first draft of the essay I was going to write to Inchoatus re: Goodkind's appeal. Potsherds, are you actually banned or is that just what you wrote on your profile? I'm ever so curious. Please allow me to state one further idea though: I'm Canadian, and at least half of our national identity is 'Not American' (Moose? He'll back me up). I think this is dumb, but one of the few things you can do when you're as mixed as us across an entire nation. But I DO NOT hate Americans. I have met many nice, polite, well-educated Americans, and just a couple giant asshole Americans. There are nice French people and giant asshole French people. Ditto for Brits, Malaysians, Australians (my brother's one of 'em), Germans, Czechs, Austrians, Swiss and Canadians. Humans are both fantastic and assholes, and to generalize one idea to an entire group of any sort is just stupid. I really think America the country as a whole has a negative worldwide reputation that is in no way supported by a large portion of the citizenry. Unfortunately I have no reason for why your president is such a douchebag and why you've got so many jingoist news announcers. Or Ann Coulter. Ours head of state is a douchebag too, Stephen Harper is a souless robot whose joints are lubricated with the blood of babies and Jean Cretien is kept young through fresh puppy lymph. Actually I like Jean Chretien. But I stand by my puppy comment. Too many people bash the States as if it were monolithic when it's not. To answer Will, you can fulfill whatever sick wishes you wish with your dirty, dirty fanfic. Naughty boy! But the Aes Sedai, as obnoxious as they can be, are just trying to do what they believe to be best for the world (even the Darkfriends - it's just that their best world has them ruling over it). Anyone with power inevitably lord it over those without, deliberately or through thoughtless actions, and when someone with power is frustrated, things get shitty. Fanfic beating down the Aes Sedai, indulges the worst parts of your personality and dirties the soul. But it feels sooooo good. Like stroking your wang with really good lube, the kind that doesn't absorb and gives just enough friction. So go Will, touch yourself, have a good long wank. I hear it's good for the prostate. You dirty, dirty boy. There's nothing wrong with indulging your basic instincts through fantasy. It's when you believe it actually is reality or try to force others into your fantasy that you get the problem. Yeardi, and all of his legion fans, appear to be guilty of both. See? Shades of grey can be fun! Agulla's post is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Goodkind's appeal is like McDonald's appeal... Best Goodkind thread ever? So good I copied it to other forums (where they actually have pro-Goodkinders) to see the reaction it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 *sigh* Thanks Wert. WLU, I asked for the ban because I spend too much time there, and I'll be heading off to grad school soon. I would do the same here, except I'm a mafia addict, and I want to be able to play while at grad school. Meh. I might still delete this account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLU Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Best Goodkind thread ever? So good I copied it to other forums (where they actually have pro-Goodkinders) to see the reaction it gets. Praise from strangers, yay! WLU, I asked for the ban because I spend too much time there, and I'll be heading off to grad school soon. Meh. I might still delete this account. I can understand, I'm glad I didn't get my wikipedia account until after I was substantially done grad school. I'd get way more done if I deleted my wikipedia account and restricted myself to lurking. Don't delete, just lurk. Occassionally pop in to praise me and Moose. We're whores for it. I'm more of a whore than he is. I'm the Richard Rahl of whores for praise. Archaeology student, guessing by the userid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Archaeology student, guessing by the userid? No, I'm from Malazan. Steven Erikson is the archaeologist. Undergrad in Engineering Physics. Doing graduate work in Health Physics (a nice name for Radiological Physics aka the softer side of Nuclear Eng). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Best Goodkind thread ever? So good I copied it to other forums (where they actually have pro-Goodkinders) to see the reaction it gets. Really? Where? Anywhere new...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLU Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Really? Where? Anywhere new...? Well the two most obvious that spring to mind are terrygoodkind.com and terrygoodkind.net. Go Werthead! Keep us posted. Keep me posted. Let me see the anguish of others suffering because of my keyboard. See Will? Baser instincts can be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I expected the TG sites, but they cause my thing to rise too often and I don't like typing them into my web browser...I peeked at Malazan, but I'm by no means more than a random drive by lurker there...but what about something new? Like a site dedicated to Michael Chricton...you know, just because...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I don't like Tairy because he eats babies. (Just though I would counter balance all the well thought out, factual arguements with this ridiculously unsupported statement) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Agulla, that was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I stuck it up on Dragonmount, Malazanempire (there are allies there) and Chronicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Well played, Agulla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Maid Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Agulla, WLU, you two are so good. . WLU, do you mind if I put that piece in my LJ? I just...wanna preserve it for posterity. I've come to think of Tairy as an 'instant gratification thing'. Kinda like wanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLU Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Agulla, WLU, you two are so good. . WLU, do you mind if I put that piece in my LJ? I just...wanna preserve it for posterity. I've come to think of Tairy as an 'instant gratification thing'. Kinda like wanking. Vas-y. You get Filipino, I have French. J'espere que Tairy perd sa yeard. But if he loses his yeard, does he lose his power? Is he the Samson of the modern literary world. Tairy not only is like wanking, he is a wank, he wanks when he writes, and the output of his writing is wank-juice. I hear he goes through a keyboard a week and writes in a rain poncho. One thing I missed out on (what happens when I compose at work) is his approach to 'justice'. It relates back to the instant gratification and moral simplicity thing. The villains are always punished in a most gruesome and gratifying way. We touched on it in many previous posts, and Demmin Nass is the best example. Just before he's about to triumph, some deus ex machina bullshit never alluded to in the past gets them out of their painted corner (fake paint, that just kinda appears out of nowhere, like the First Wizard, who threw up barriers separating a CONTINENT, is powerless because of...ya know, stuff). Then, when she finds out her honey is in danger, she attacks the source of the news (in my mind, she cuts his balls of not because of his pedophilia or his vicious leadership of his quads, but because she's upset about her lovey-dovey being kidnapped, tortured and possibly killed). But fortunately and gratifyingly for her readers, she can force him to cut his own balls off and eat them, despite the fact that the essential being that was Demmin Nass ceased to exist as soon as she Con Darred him. He could have been used, provided information, betray his boss, be a front-line fighter, the best possible personal guard ever. Instead, he dies because she doesn't have the brains to restrain her gushy love-vengeance and goes for the McDonalds for 30 seconds of gratification. Anyway, I dislike the Sword of Truth series, is what I'm essentially trying to say. I think it's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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