Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 This is not a thread about Jon’s parentage, leadership skills or if he will become The King or not. That is a thread where we can discuss Jon character and personality traits.From what we have seen so far Jon’s main characteristics are:His love for his familyDutifulnessStraightforwardnessModestySelf-disciplineAltruismAlways tries his best no matter what situation he is in But we also see him being spiky. At the beginning of aGoT we see that he is also boastful and a little disgruntled something that he doesn’t continue after he understands what was going on. For me Jon is the closest example we have to a true knight, or maybe true male knight. I believe that his most distinctive characteristic is that he cares about the others and he does everything he can to help them even if that means that he will have to face some consequences for that. What do you think? But please let's be civilised and somehow serious here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 But we also see him being spiky. At the beginning of aGoT we see that he is also boastful and a little disgruntled something that he doesn’t continue after he understands what was going on. Jon was still whiny all the way into ADWD along with his disgusting bullying of poor Gilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I just love him. I dont have the books on me, but when he is trying to explain to the NW why he is letting the wildlings south of the wall, well his reasoning is so perfectly moral. He shows a very wise acceptance of all races of people no matter where they come from. He seems to understand his vows better than most members of the NW. When he says that protecting the realms of men does not only apply to 'men' south of the wall I just wanted to cry :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the conquoring bastard25 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mincs it seem to me that you base Jon's whole personality based on three chapters of Jon in the first book. There is something called character progression. It seems to me that you harp on Jon for actions that happened when he was 14. Do you remember how tempermental most teens are at that age? Does he have some growing up yeah because he's 14 in a man's world and it's time to play the part of a man. Jon's done some great things in the time that he's been on the wall. He's not the whiny boy that you constantly want to claim that he is. Jon has undergone some serious character development and I think that you should give the man a little credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 But we also see him being spiky. At the beginning of aGoT we see that he is also boastful and a little disgruntled something that he doesn’t continue after he understands what was going on. For me Jon is the closest example we have to a true knight, or maybe true male knight. I believe that his most distinctive characteristic is that he cares about the others and he does everything he can to help them even if that means that he will have to face some consequences for that. Ah, Jon, the male equivalent of Sansa (which is why I love him so much :)). Now seriously, his personal growth with abundance of great teachers shaped Jon into something rather admirable. Just as in Sansa's storyline, there is that wonderful, and yet powerful evolution from the entitled highborn bastard to the Commander carrying the world on its shoulders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mincs it seem to me that you base Jon's whole personality based on three chapters of Jon in the first book. There is something called character progression. It seems to me that you harp on Jon for actions that happened when he was 14. Do you remember how tempermental most teens are at that age? Does he have some growing up yeah because he's 14 in a man's world and it's time to play the part of a man. Jon's done some great things in the time that he's been on the wall. He's not the whiny boy that you constantly want to claim that he is. Jon has undergone some serious character development and I think that you should give the man a little credit. Gilly wasn't in the first three chapters of Jon in the first book. Nor was his complaining to Mance. Moreover, my responses are more in reaction to the manner a certain Jon fan treats the characters she hates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Gilly wasn't in the first three chapters of Jon in the first book. Nor was his complaining to Mance. Moreover, my responses are more in reaction to the manner a certain Jon fan treats the characters she hates. lol That doesnt make for a good thread, but MINSC has a point JQC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 snip I should have said that the list was in brief. Ah, Jon, the male equivalent of Sansa (which is why I love him so much :)). Now seriously, his personal growth with abundance of great teachers shaped Jon into something rather admirable. Just as in Sansa's storyline, there is that wonderful, and yet powerful evolution from the entitled highborn bastard to the Commander carrying the world on its shoulders... :bowdown: simply :bowdown: lol That doesnt make for a good thread, but MINSC has a point JQC. Really? I don't know and frankly I don't care to learn. As I have said that it was how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Jon was still whiny all the way into ADWD along with his disgusting bullying of poor Gilly.You forget that Jon's "bullying" was to protect Mance's child from Melisandre. Remember that fire can kill, and the kiss of fire that Jon referred to in the chapter where he sends Gilly and Mance Rayder's child with Aemon make me thinks of BURNS.In medicinal terminology, there are four degree of burns, each one more serious than the last.First degree burns are the mildest, while the third-degree and fourth-degree burns can potentially kill the person who receives them.Maybe you should visit a burn ward, and maybe you'll understand why Jon chose to send Aemon and Mance Rayder's child away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You forget that Jon's "bullying" was to protect Mance's child from Melisandre. Remember that fire can kill, and the kiss of fire that Jon referred to in the chapter where he sends Gilly and Mance Rayder's child with Aemon make me thinks of BURNS. Gilly wasn't going to burn Mance's baby, instead that was Stannis (who JQC also adores) thus if Jon needs to stand up to anyone that is who it should have been not poor Gilly and her baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 snip Oh sweet summer Lyse Stark you haven't understand yet that Jon was Ramsay's teacher at torturing 101, the one that waked the Others, the mastermind behind the RW, the one who persuaded Hellicent to crown Aegon, the one who killed Rhaenys and Aego, the bear who cutted Tormund's member etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You forget that Jon's "bullying" was to protect Mance's child from Melisandre. Remember that fire can kill, and the kiss of fire that Jon referred to in the chapter where he sends Gilly and Mance Rayder's child with Aemon make me thinks of BURNS.In medicinal terminology, there are four degree of burns, each one more serious than the last.First degree burns are the mildest, while the third-degree and fourth-degree burns can potentially kill the person who receives them.Maybe you should visit a burn ward, and maybe you'll understand why Jon chose to send Aemon and Mance Rayder's child away.Wow. This honestly left me speechless for a second. Are you seriously proposing that people need to visit a burn ward to realise that burning people alive is horrible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Oh sweet summer Lyse Stark you haven't understand yet that Jon was Ramsay's teacher at torturing 101, Well, according to logic you have previously argued Jon is a worse bastard then Ramsay. However, besides that point as those are some nice strawman you are complaining about in regards to charges I have never leveled at Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Gilly wasn't going to burn Mance's baby, instead that was Stannis (who JQC also adores) thus if Jon needs to stand up to anyone that who it should have been not poor Gilly and her baby.Wrong. Melisandre wanted to burn Mance Rayder's child with him. Stannis wanted to burn Edric Storm, but Davos snuck him away. And Mel actually burned Rattleshirt, who was glamoured as Mance Ryder.So the point is that Jon, by sending the child away, ensured his safety. So my point stands. She is harping about "kings' blood" to wake a stone dragon, and Mel already burned another relative of kings (Alester Florent) and she may have burnt the child if Jon hadn't sent him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Wrong. Melisandre wanted to burn Mance Rayder's child with him. Stannis wanted to burn Edric Storm, but Davos snuck him away.And Mel actually burned Rattleshirt, who was glamoured as Mance Ryder.So the point is that Jon, by sending the child away, ensured his safety. So my point stands. She is harping about "kings' blood" to wake a stone dragon, and Mel already burned another relative of kings (Alester Florent) and she may have burnt the child if Jon hadn't sent him away. Okay, so Jon should have stood up to Mel rather then Gilly and her baby. That still doesn't change the main objection that Gilly was an innocent that Jon bullied rather then stand up forcibly to Mel or Stannis. Hell, if he needed to send the Little Prince away just ask Gilly to take both babes with her as she would have probably accepted that arrangement without any tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyse Stark Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Wow. This honestly left me speechless for a second. Are you seriously proposing that people need to visit a burn ward to realise that burning people alive is horrible?I just pointed out to him that if he thinks bullying Gilly to give up her child is wrong, then burning people alive is worse. Jon is disgusted at the practice, and that's why he switched the babies; he doesn't want Aemon and Mance Ryder's child to be given to the fire because it's such a painful death.I just suggested that he visit one so he can better understand why Jon did what he did, and to empathize with the victims of such horrible injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I just pointed out to him that if he thinks bullying Gilly to give up her child is wrong, then burning people alive is worse. Jon is disgusted at the practice, and that's why he switched the babies; he doesn't want Aemon and Mance Ryder's child to be given to the fire because it's such a painful death.I just suggested that he visit one so he can better understand why Jon did what he did, and to empathize with the victims of such horrible injuries. None of that requires him to threaten Gilly's baby? Heck, I don't recall does he ever actually informs Mel of the switch? Also I understand the reality of burning someone alive and it doesn't make his action any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the conquoring bastard25 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mincs, he bullied Gilly to save their lives. Aemon has seen 9 kings and out of those 9 he's been related to 7 of them. He's a king's son, uncle, nephew and cousin. He's got king's blood coming out of the ass, not to mention that he could have been king himself. Nor could Jon have gone to Stannis about the Aemon and Mance's son and lived through the encounter. Like Val said it suited Mel's purpose to let them go. Him complaining to Mance was part of the ruse to get him excepted by the Wildlings. Would you rather him say oh by the way Mance I was sent here by your old friend Half Hand to spy on you and the Old bear has bout 300 swords at the Fist of the First Man that are waiting there to cut your host to pieces. Rather he listen to Mance and figured that Mance might except that as a bastard and bastards are by nature deciteful and treatous so let him think that I turned my cloak because of it's in my nature. That he's not happy with his lot in life, that the he doesn't like the idea of being lead beyond the wall to die most like. That he's seen their numbers and he knows the numbers of the watch and he would rather be on the winning side. Jon at 17 has a better grasp of what's important and what needs to be done better than men twice and triple his age. At Jon's core beats a very compassionate heart. A desire to do the right thing even if it goes against what he's been taught. There is no one that can punish or make Jon feel worse than Jon Snow. He beats himself up over all of this actions. Being a spy, sleeping with Ygritte.... He's constantly second guessing himself. In the chapter that Jon is stabbed in he thinks that the Watch needs leaders with the wisdom of Aemon, the Stubborness of the Old bear, Compassion of Donal Noye, cunning of Halfhand and the learning of Sam. While I was reading this all I could think was that Jon himself has turned into this type of character. That he may have started his journey thinking that his Stark blood was going to win him easy favor. Only to learn that he only will get what he earns. Then he starts doing things that mean to prove that he's worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I just pointed out to him that if he thinks bullying Gilly to give up her child is wrong, then burning people alive is worse. Jon is disgusted at the practice, and that's why he switched the babies; he doesn't want Aemon and Mance Ryder's child to be given to the fire because it's such a painful death.I just suggested that he visit one so he can better understand why Jon did what he did, and to empathize with the victims of such horrible injuries.Everyone knows that burn injuries are terrible and being burned alive is much worse, it's quite insulting to insinuate that a poster has no empathy for victims of this just because he disagrees with Jon's methods in this case. Nobody is saying "Being burned alive is no biggie compared to Jon bullying Gilly" or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 None of that requires him to threaten Gilly's baby? Heck, I don't recall does he ever actually informs Mel of the switch? Also I understand the reality of burning someone alive and it doesn't make his action any better. I don't believe he did. But hey who cares if that little bastard burns, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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