Trial by Folly: The Arianne Martell Reread Project - tWoW spoiler chapter

[Julia Martell]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/118148-trial-by-folly-the-arianne-martell-reread-project-twow-arianne-i-spoilers/?p=6443115

[Ser Daegon]

Based off of reading this sample chapter, and Arianne's previous story arc throughout the past two books, I'm thinking that she's going to be quite taken with young fAegon. Her obsession with her brother's usurping her place will lead her to follow a new ambition to out-do him yet again by falling for fAegon. She will lead Dorne into the folly of war under fAegon's banners, and Dorne will bleed for siding against Danaerys.

This is my own speculation, at least. It seems to fit the pattern with Arianne's own thought process, her character, and the direction Dorne is taking.

[Monctonvike]

I sometimes wonder if GRRM is in a bit of a bind with the Iron Islands, and Dorne where as these areas got introduced so much further in the story the charcters while they are somewhat complex they are a little more static by nature. It seems like Dorne has been working on this master plan for decades and everything they have been trying to do seems so simple.

I sometimes wonder if they sent her for the simple marriage or to cause some confusion. They were pretty quick to reach out to Dany once news of the Princes death is recieved, I wonder how much they like Dany now?

[I S**t Gold]

"Of all the knights in Dorne, why did my father chose this one to be my shield? He knows our history."

This line drew my attention. I should say I was already an advocate of the theory Quentyn's adventure was a success in that the purpose of the mission was to propose, not to have the proposal accepted. (Obviously the whole death thing overshadows that). The advantage is that a proposal to Dany makes her think of Dorne as friends, even and perhaps especially if she knocks Quent back. When you look at the details of the quest Doran did nothing to help him steal dragons or woo women, and could've.

This little detail makes me wonder if its the same with Arianne. Its not that Doran needs the marriage pact, he needs to formally demonstrate he's not a threat. What that means for Dorne is that its the last kingdom that Aegon or Dany is going to target, and if that's all you want a rejected proposal is even better. It means you still have spare kids for future proposals.

I'm curious about whether this is a matter of Doran hiding the viper. These proposals establish Dorne as friendly, maybe convince you to walk through the grass barefoot. GRRM said Doran was playing to win. Backing Aegon or Dany, is that playing to win. He can't afford to ignore them, but taking them head on would be too costly, and this totally fits in with his style.

So that's the line that chimes most with these. Quentyns chapters were littered with illogical things like this. Daemon represents a bad decision, and one Doran has all the information he needs to avoid making, and everyone calls him a master planner, and he says himself he's the grass that hides the viper.

My hunch is Daemon starts boasting to Aegon's men, and this fits in with Dornish stereotypes. Aegon won't be surprised, he won't be offended and he'll be pleased with their offer of support, but he'll say no, because of the dishonour. Just as Doran planned. Aegon is looking in a different direction.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

As if it wasn't already a given, Teora's dream seems to reaffirm that there will be a 2nd Dance of the Dragons.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

What did I miss this?? I like this chapter ;_____;

Aaaaaanyway.

She rides out across the sands towards Ghost Hill with six companions. They are:

Ser Daemon Sand, the Bastard of Godsgrace, her Sworn Shield, failed suitor, and former lover.
Ser Joss Hood and Ser Geribald Shells, two young knights out of Sunspear.
Lady Jayne Ladybright, her lady-in-waiting
Elia Sand, her cousin, the eldest of Oberyn and Ellaria’s daughters. Fourteen years old and in charge of driving Arianne crazy.
Nate, called Feathers, a servant from the Water Gardens, in charge of their seven ravens.

I think that in another thread we kind were joking about how seven is actually an unlucky number. Arianne and six make seven. And seven ravens. That won't end up good.

Ellaria in particular is gloomy. She separates her daughters “the better to survive the carnage”.

Can we love Ellaria more? Can't.

She also thinks about Darkstar. She confides to Daemon Sand that she hopes Obara has killed him by now, but Daemon points out that Darkstar could have killed Obara just as easily. But Arianne reassures herself that Areo Hotah, at least, is more than a match for Darkstar.

I think this proves how much she regrets her actions. DS had been a former lover of her too, and a friend. Now, she wants him death.

(just noticed that both Darkstar and Daemon Sand are DS. heh).

[...] Arianne takes the opportunity to beat herself up for falling for Darkstar in the first place, but she tries to tell herself that she’s learned her lesson and won’t be fooled by pretty boys again.

Either Daeron is right or he simply dislikes every other former lover of Arianne. Nevertheless, I think her thoughts are what make the idea of an Aegon/Arianne very unlikely, tbh.

When they start riding again the next day, Arianne just happens to find herself riding next to Daemon. After trying very hard not to oggle him too much she asks him to tell her everything he knows about Jon Connington. Daemon says he’s dead, but Arianne asks him to indulge her. He tells her some stuff, but doesn’t seem to know anything she doesn’t know already. She worries that JonCon will outclass her, especially when considering the idea that he won’t be susceptible to her womanly wiles.

I think Daeron knows stuff about Jon, and he does know he is into men. But won't tell Arianne for whatever reason.

That night, she sits alone in her tent and rereads the letter Jon Connington sent to Prince Doran.

I love that letter because it's so opposite to Jon's actual feelings for Elia...

That night, Arianne takes a walk on the battlement in an attempt to clear her head. Daemon finds her there. She gushes over his hotness and her happy memories of their relationship a little before propositioning him, but he rejects her. Quite rudely too.

Agree that he is rude, but he is still a knight, and a knight in a mission, whatever his mission is. I think the mission includes... not Arianne :(

She thinks about the first Daenerys and how she was obsessed with her portrait as a girl, praying every night for the gods to make her as pretty as her. She says that Quentyn must have prayed for something else, since he turned out “an earnest boy, well-behaved and dutiful, but dull. And plain, so plain.” She finds the idea of him being king a little ridiculous.

How bitchy of hers :lol:

Arianne doesn’t take any of her punk attitude.

"The cow does not remember to have been a calf".

Some thoughts:

I think Elia is the one who might fall for Aegon, or viceversa. Elia is pretty much both the original Elia and Lyanna melted into one, and Aegon might like that (to poor Jon's horror). People is giving for too much granted an eventual marriage between A and A and I doubt it. Jokes aside, I think even a marriage between her and Griff will be once again suggested, although wont' happen.

I think Daeron knows what Jon really is, but he won't tell Arianne. I have a small hunch.

Also, looks like Harry finally got his elephants. About time: he missed his elephants, did Homeless Harry.

[rozemarijn]

"Of all the knights in Dorne, why did my father chose this one to be my shield? He knows our history."

.

My guess is he wants an everyday reminder of her weakness: pretty badass boys. If she falls for Aegon (which she will not, he is young and she is 27) she only needs to have a look at her sword shield to be remembered of all her follies and think rationally.

Doran is so subtle...

[I S**t Gold]

My guess is he wants an everyday reminder of her weakness: pretty badass boys. If she falls for Aegon (which she will not, he is young and she is 27) she only needs to have a look at her sword shield to be remembered of all her follies and think rationally.

Doran is so subtle...

Yeah definitely can't see the romance happening, or maybe better to say I'd feel short-changed if it did. If that long term plan amounts to 'find someone for my kids to marry' I'll be a bit gutted. It still feels like subterfuge on a grand scale to me.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

My guess is he wants an everyday reminder of her weakness: pretty badass boys. If she falls for Aegon (which she will not, he is young and she is 27) she only needs to have a look at her sword shield to be remembered of all her follies and think rationally.

Doran is so subtle...

Close, she's 23.

[rozemarijn]

Close, she's 23.

I taught she was older, still six to seven years is a huge gap, especially at that age.

I'm not talking about the succes of the relationship but about the prospect of her falling in love.

[The Holy Goat]

I taught she was older, still six to seven years is a huge gap, especially at that age.

I'm not talking about the succes of the relationship but about the prospect of her falling in love.

He's 18, it'll be five years age gap. Not impossible IMO, stranger things have happened.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Arianne is 23, turning 24 in 300 AC. Aegon is 18 years old currently.. so a gap of 5 to 6 years (Aegons nameday falls somewhere at the end of 300/ start of 301 AC.

Perhaps a good idea to mention the reread thread where this project originated from, and where this chapter too was posted, and discussed?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/118148-trial-by-folly-the-arianne-martell-reread-project-twow-arianne-i-spoilers/page-11

[Ghosts Lunch]

As if it wasn't already a given, Teora's dream seems to reaffirm that there will be a 2nd Dance of the Dragons.

Yeah can't see Dany and Aegon liking each other

Big question is whether Aegon gets his hands on one of the dragons, even if he's a Blackfyre they'll still warm to him presumably?

What did I miss this?? I like this chapter ;_____;

Aaaaaanyway.

I think that in another thread we kind were joking about how seven is actually an unlucky number. Arianne and six make seven. And seven ravens. That won't end up good.

Can we love Ellaria more? Can't.

I think this proves how much she regrets her actions. DS had been a former lover of her too, and a friend. Now, she wants him death.

(just noticed that both Darkstar and Daemon Sand are DS. heh).

Either Daeron is right or he simply dislikes every other former lover of Arianne. Nevertheless, I think her thoughts are what make the idea of an Aegon/Arianne very unlikely, tbh.

I think Daeron knows stuff about Jon, and he does know he is into men. But won't tell Arianne for whatever reason.

I love that letter because it's so opposite to Jon's actual feelings for Elia...

Agree that he is rude, but he is still a knight, and a knight in a mission, whatever his mission is. I think the mission includes... not Arianne :(

How bitchy of hers :lol:

"The cow does not remember to have been a calf".

Some thoughts:

I think Elia is the one who might fall for Aegon, or viceversa. Elia is pretty much both the original Elia and Lyanna melted into one, and Aegon might like that (to poor Jon's horror). People is giving for too much granted an eventual marriage between A and A and I doubt it. Jokes aside, I think even a marriage between her and Griff will be once again suggested, although wont' happen.

I think Daeron knows what Jon really is, but he won't tell Arianne. I have a small hunch.

Also, looks like Harry finally got his elephants. About time: he missed his elephants, did Homeless Harry.

Reckon you are right, Aegon probably will warm to Elia

I think book Ellaria is one of the most enlightened int he whole thing and it is good that perspective is put in there. She can perhaps be seen as the opposite of Catelyn Tully, she accepts the Sand Snakes not of her blood and unlike Car isn't about to kidnap a Tyrion to start a war. Show Ellaria will probably be of Ariannes ilk I suspect

My guess is he wants an everyday reminder of her weakness: pretty badass boys. If she falls for Aegon (which she will not, he is young and she is 27) she only needs to have a look at her sword shield to be remembered of all her follies and think rationally.

Doran is so subtle...

Plus gotta love Doran, someone pointed out that the books he gave to Arianne would have included the fine detail on why her plan wouldn't have been legal/worked etc

He's probably the character I admire the most in political terms, a less Machiavellian form of Tywin (and Littlefinger and perhaps Varys) but very shrewd and actually think things out well. Obviously we can tell from the Water Gardens and his love of watching the children play in a spirit of innocence and praise of Ellaria he is not an over ambitious nut job like so many others. Wiout his gout he would have made a good hand I suspect

Yeah he's probably there to act as a reminder of what her toying with Oakheart and Darkstar led to, Doran "did nothing" but Arianne through her sexual machinations has created pain and problems through not being honest. So it is probably there to keep her honest.

[Sword of the Morgan]

As much as I like the fiery nature of Arianne, I hope she's learning some lessons from her father now that he's decided to share things with her. It's difficult to see where she is really headed.

[Monctonvike]

As much as I like the fiery nature of Arianne, I hope she's learning some lessons from her father now that he's decided to share things with her. It's difficult to see where she is really headed.

I think she may have another role in the hay or two before she really gets in the middle of things. She can be impulsive whom ever she is around is playing with fire so to speak with her

[Endymion I Targaryen]

For many years she learned to "hate" her father,Quentyn and the first Daenerys(the type of woman that Daenerys Stormborn belongs).I doubt this can trully change.

I also doubt Doran told her everything he plans/knows.How he got his information about her plan?Who are his friends in King's Landing who informed him of Trystane's assasination attempt?

[rozemarijn]

I also doubt Doran told her everything he plans/knows.How he got his information about her plan?Who are his friends in King's Landing who informed him of Trystane's assasination attempt?

he might have. The only thing we witnessed is him pressing a chess piece in her hand. Sometimes she remembers bits and pieces from that conversation, but not all. So we do not know how much she knows.