ummester

This is props my favorite episode ever - show at it's peak.

So sad it fell so far.

6 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

Last night they apparently retconned/shoehorned it into the very end - like it wasn;t too expensive anymore?  Get fucked.

Yea, I thought that too - obviously they were lying to try and keep the ghost reunion a secret. They have had a terrible run with leaks.

30 minutes ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Actually, its not that bad.   It is fairly good.  People are rating it based on how they view the rest of season 8.  Which is a bit unfair.  But it is what it is.

I agree - and I rated episodes 3 & 4 a 1/10 because their story telling and lack of any king of coherent sense just made them shit. But this episode I gave a 9/10. I had read the Bran thing and was dreading it - but it played far better than I thought it would.

This season has been so up and down.

I liked it - it was bittersweet, in the end. 9/10.

It was a decent way to wrap it up.

So some of the story telling without the books absolutely sucked. Biggest disappointment for me was the NK, followed by Arya's training and Dany's descent into despair - but it came together in the end.

Oh and it seemed like someone better than usual wrote the dialogue this episode?

Best episode this season. 8/10.

Major issues I had

I though the Dothraki were supposed to be extinct?

Jon and Arya's escape the burning city plot armor was a bit naff - one of them should have burned to a crisp. Probably Arya, I'm totally over her - have been since season 5 - would have been nice to see her get barbecued this episode. D&D obviously think Arya is untouchable though, so she will probably survive everything.

Not enough time was spent explaining why Dany fully spat the dummy - I kind of got it and almost felt sorry for her. I mean I get why she hated them all, after sacrificing so much for the Westerosi ingrates and I understood her doing the first pass after the bells rang but not why she kept going and going - perhaps the Targ madness took her. Regardless, it made for some spectacular fantasy imagery as a whole city crumbled around a dragon.

Clegane bowl was cheesy as fuck but still manged to be fun.

6 minutes ago, SerJimmyJangle said:

Winter was essentially confirmed when Jon and Sansa discussed it at the end of Season 6. Prior to that they had an autumn of 2 years (after the Summer that lasted for 9 years)

Jaime noticed snowfall over KL as he left for the North at the end of Season 7.

In terms of duration, that would make it barely a year (yeah I know timing's a screwy thing on the show).

Based on that, you'd be looking at a further 2-3 years at least of Winter, before 6 months - a year of Spring.

I know that GRRM handwaved the seasons with "Magic", but I think the NK has no sway over the seasons themselves.

So we just have to accept that all of these people live on a planet with an orbit so bizarre that the seasons are entirely inconsistent and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the magic the author claimed it did? GRRM promised the seasons would be explained, with magic - if D&D didn't ask what the explanation was and plan it into the writing at all, they are bigger fuckwits than I released.  Not only is 'winter is coming' (given special weight when in long summers) pivotal to the shows mythology, it also sold a heap of tshirts for D&D.

47 minutes ago, SerJimmyJangle said:

The fact that you posted that (what I've highlighted in bold) alone leads me to wonder how much of ASOIAF and GOT you've actually been paying attention to....

Enough to know that they just had a particularly long summer and were expecting a particularly long winter - which, sans any other explanation, must have been due to the magic imbued in the NK, who is now dead.

So I repeat, why is it still winter? Even if you say well, the NK is dead so they just return to normal seasons - that doesn't cover that they just had a particularly long summer, so there is no reason to assume winter is the current season they should be in.

10 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

She was awful in the show.  I didn't think much of her in the books, but they ruined her in the show.

I found book Cat kind of mean and heartless and show Cat much nicer. Show Cat was maternal to a fault though. Perhaps it is because I have both a mother and wife that are maternal to faults that I can see the character clearly for what it is.

24 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

you had never read the books, you'd be saying something different.  They were consistent with the characters because we all knew the characters due to countless re-reads and it being far easier to demonstrate thoughts in a book than a show.

I read the books after I watched to season 4 - they felt consistent before then. Cat was extremely maternal - it was in character for her to free a captive to try and save her children. Ned was extremely honorable - it was in character for him to treat Cersie with honor, even if she did not deserve it.  Robb was a young, dumb and full of romance - it is perfectly reasonable that he fell in love outside of his arranged marriage. I got all of that from the show alone.

1 hour ago, ferrelhadley said:

Yet another instance of epic fantasy series being clunky as hell to tie up. Where as a few seasons ago heroes acting dumb like Cat releasing Jaime, Robb nobbing the wrong person and Ned warning Cersei was seen as building a great story now its feels like its just driving the story to its end. 

Those failings were all consistent with the characterizations, so they never felt hollow, like now.

3 minutes ago, The Chequered Raven said:

If you have survived seeing E3 - what are you afraid of...???

Strorytelling is poor as always, but it's less dull than killing undead zombies a whole episode - so I liked it better then last one. Even if there were several "OMG, how can anybody write SUCH a crap"-moments...

Last episode I rated zero, so this one is 1 for taking out Jon's new pet. Surprising how easy they are to kill...

I did endure it - also rated it 1 higher than the last episode. Was bad but not as bad.

Euron finally did something useful - which makes him now equal to the NK in the emotional stakes. If you dislike the stupid fricken dragons, like me, then that makes Euron worth 1 point.

Why is it still winter?

And what are these Dothraki that Varys speaks of, wasn't their entire race wiped out last episode? It's almost like Varys has been asleep for half a season and now has woken up like 5 episodes behind everyone else.

Jamie leaving Brienne was cool, I 'll give it a point for that. Brienne should have went with Tormund, the dude who genuinely liked her and not the dude who was using her to try and reconcile his own soul.  I get she is emotionally innocent and didn't know better but still, good to see the show still throws some vague emotional punches, after how pissweak it has become of late.

If this was Survivor, Cersie should win. But it is still one of the later, bad seasons of Survivor.

2/10

I haven't seen it yet - thought I'd check the scores first. 25% give it 1/10 - seems to have turned form to divisive to disliked. I'm afraid to watch it now.

2 hours ago, Einheri said:

This is the first episode I’ve ever rated 1/10. Sure there are a few nice scenes, like the WWs conjuring up a storm or Jorah’s passing, but other than that, the episode was just a complete clusterfuck that managed to kill off what little interest I still had left in this show. Shame.

I feel much the same - it is the first episode I gave a 1 also. Even the Sand Snakes, Waifenator and Zombie capture team didn't get a 1 from me - but this did.

6 minutes ago, divica said:

There is no good reason for this episode to be devise.

Sure, the NK had more fans, like me, that are sad to see their heroes demise. The King is dead - long unlive the King!

But serious, yea, I get why it is so divisive. It is exactly like The Last Jedi, which was extremely divisive. It is subversion without earning it and without satisfying payoff - it is the narrative version of a jump scare. And everyone who likes horror knows that jump scares, whilst they can be effective in the moment, are dumb.

Is this the most divisive ratings for an episode ever? Even 706 (the atrocious Zombie hunt episode) didn't have votes cluster around the extremes like this episode has.

8 hours ago, Talking Hodor said:

There is no source material. There's an outline or some musings of GRRM at best.

This - so many times this. Story should never have been sold for adaptation until it was finished.

After this episode, I accept all the rant and ravers that call D&D hacks - I believe they are entirely now. Trouble is, just because GRRM can plot a good start with some great characters, does it really make him a good writer if he can't finish?

Unless, of course, GRRM knew all along that he never had a good ending and sold it to hacks as a way to take the heat off himself.

6 hours ago, Kajjo said:

He represents death and evil. Why not wanting him dead?! You are having fun with us?

Arya's arc makes a lot of sense. Don't be a hater.

 

The humans in this show have committed far nastier acts than the walkers have - just saying something represents death does no make it evil or scary, or even unlikeable. Old age represents death but there are way too many aged humans sucking up recourses ATM - what is really bad in a pragmatic sense? This show was thoughtful, nuanced and logical, a the start.

Explain to me how Arya became no.one by embracing her Arya personality whilst in training to be no-one? Explain how she was possibly forgiven by Jaquen for failing at her training 3 times in a row? Explain how she beat the waif? Her character is at best a nonsensical assassin and at worst a non deserving little brat who attained knowledge without any discipline.

Worst episode ever. I gave it a 1 . Can't believe they killed.my main man the NK  - not even sure I want to see the rest now. And they killed him with Arya - she of the nonsensical broken arc. Guess it is symbolic of how fucking stupid the storytelling has become in this show.

Only good bit was that little Mormont brat biting it.

56 minutes ago, Risto said:

As @The hairy bear said, the resolving of the greatest mystery and impact it has on characters has been done in less than two minutes. This was supposed to be THE question, the one that got them (producers) the job. And yet, it is not doing what is supposed to do.

Surely there are more important questions:

What does the NK want? How do the seasons and magic on Planetos actually work, anyway? How did Dany make those dragons? How did Mel birth demons? How does Mel live so long? What did Varys hear in the flames? Is Jon dead or alive - does he even breathe?

I find the whole Jon linage a rather minor thing - and actually kind of annoying because how could Rhaegar legally annul his marriage when he had already made kids with Obyrens sister? I thought the way Westerosi law worked was that you could not opt out of successful reproductive unions - especially those between members of great houses? Besides this, the Targs were invaders so what makes their claim to the Throne more valid than Roberts? Surely one of the main elements of the show and books is letting us see how broken medieval successions and secret babies really are as concepts?

Truly, if whether of not Jon deserves the Throne is the main crux of the story, in book or show, then its a waster of 5 (and counting) books and 8 seasons.

An hour of soppy forgiveness. It was very nice and almost made me like some of the characters again - but it's just way too simple and cliche. This story started with such complicated promise. When the human heart is in conflict with itself it seldom resolves so positively. I hope there are some real kick to the guts surprises coming, because as well made as this season is, the narrative is ultimately boring.

Also, getting massive LotRs film vibes this season. Anyone else feel Pod singing was exactly like this:

Still gave it 8 out of 10.

3 hours ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

What the heck is up with Tyrion???

Without GRRM writing his dialogue, he is a crap character. He was downright mean to Varys - coz I have balls and you don't. Varys should have said, yea but at least I can reach a fucking doorknob, you doorknob.

Dinklage is also way overrated and its showing.

1 hour ago, Talking Hodor said:

 I'm really hoping to see Zombie Hodor in action, maybe carrying a legless wight in a basket on his back. That would be freakin' sweet.

Good call - I hope zombie Hodor can still Hodor also - but in a screechy way. We have never heard a screechy HODOR!

I gave the episode 7. Was yea, ok. Not good, not bad. Mostly predictable.

Happy that the NK is still leaving messages - means there is still some depth to whatever he wants. I read a not quite spoiler that the NK patterns and messages come together for a really cool reveal - man I hope there is some truth to that.

 There are too many things wrong with where this story is heading - Roberts Rebellion was a lie coz Rhaegar loved Lyanna - awe, ain't that nice. Except the shit was already married and a dad, he just abandoned his family for a young Northern bit of smoo and everyone is OK with that? This show has a really fucked up version of committed love  I guess the books and early episodes of the show kept driving home the things we love destroy us, so I can only hope that next season the NK proves to be the hero and Dany and Jon the villains.

At least the NK looks good riding a dragon and not some little wuss bag like Dany - he sits up high and proud and shit.

I don't get show Arya at all - she is a total mess of a character. Hope she goes insane and stabs herself to death next season.

The zombie scene was underwhelming - seriously, the Mountain looks way scarier than that piss-ant little skelebones did - like WTF is wrong with his face? Loved that Qyburn took a particular interest in the wight, hope he goes and shakes the NKs hand and makes some kind of alchemy/necromancy alliance next season. Perhaps Cersie can than be the Nights Queen? Perhaps a Queen is all the NK is looking for, just like Euron.

7 - better than the travesty last week, but nothing in this episode was as good as Euron's water battle and the Field of Fire battle. Overall the only thing this season has had going for it are battles and dragon FX.

Is it just me or does GoTs seem a lot less adult now? It doesn't feel as gory or thematically disturbing anymore. Incest has kind of become accepted as love - perhaps that is disturbing in itself. Other than that, there aren't any nasty elements now, which makes it kind of boring. It's like it used to be rated R and now it's MA or something - like it's been downgraded to a kids show.

Best bit of the episode was Qyburn looking at the wights hand.