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  1. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    The child is The prince that was promised. And I whole-heartedly disagree with the "fan-based" notion. Fan-based ideas revolve around putting Jon on the Iron Throne and Tyrion on the back of a dragon, none of which are backed by the themes and characterizations in the story. Jon's entire story arc has been about the Night King and his bastardhood. Daenerys has been all about motherhood and raising armies and titles referencing the Night King. (The Dothraki are described very much like wildlings and the Unsullied are practically zombies who are told not to have any fear or pain all the while chanting "valar morghulis"). Her army will make the future army of the dead. Both had relationships with characters that served as plot tools to foreshadow their future relationship. But most importantly the Night King has been mentioned in the books very briefly but the few mentions we have all say that he has a wife. Are you familiar with how Yi Ti explains the Long Night? It's basically talking about Daenerys. According to their story the Night Queen's (maiden made of light) son ruled over mortals but one day he was killed. The NQ was so enraged about this that she and her husband attacked the world and thus started the Long Night. Once Dany is the Night Queen no one will dare to hurt her child or the slaves who she calls her children out of fear of her. This is how she stabilizes her rule. And it's completely plot driven. Even Dany's titles refer to the Night King. The Others are said to arrive in a storm (stormborn). The Night King is unaffected by fire (unburnt). Khaleesi = queen. The rest of the titles reference her status as the Mother which tie her to the seven gods of the Faith and the Yi Ti story. Even the show's version of the House of the Undying had her cross the Wall and walk to the north where she met Khal Drogo and her son. Khal Drogo is a plot tool foreshadowing Jon Snow just like Ygritte was a plot tool foreshadowing Daenerys.
  2. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    Actually it's "to go forward, I must go back. But if I look back I'm lost". She won't understand the meaning of it until she accepts her destiny as the Night Queen and lets Jon convert her.
  3. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    All of the main characters have their tag lines they keep repeating in the books. Jon: "You know nothing Jon Snow" Dany: "To go forward, I must go back" Tyrion: "Where do whores go?" All of these are hinting at the end game. Jon is wrong about the motivations of the Night King and also, he is most likely never gonna find out about his real parents. At this point he is sailing towards Winterfell and The Wall has come down. They will most likely confront the army of the dead before making it to Winterfell where Bran and Samwell know about his parents. Jon has already been resurrected by fire and he will be resurrected by ice and become the new Night King. But before that happens, Dany has lost her men. So there will be a battle with the current Night King at some point. But as leaks from season 8 and Dany's House of the Undying vision (show version) and Bran's vision prove, the Night King will make it to King's Landing and take it down with his dragon. Dany will become the Night Queen. That is where her tag line refers to. Her story literally started with her marrying a scary barbarian - Khal Drogo. He worked as a plot tool to foreshadow her "marriage" to the Night King. Important notion here is - and one the show understandably changed - that Daenerys wanted to sleep with Khal Drogo in their wedding night. It was a rape on the show but in the books she gets turned on by Khal Drogo and pulls him closer. This is a hint that her conversion happens voluntarily. And that is a nod to the Nissa Nissa story aswell. NN voluntarily sacrificed herself to give birth to Lightbringer. As we now know the original Night King was created with a knife stabbed to his heart. The Nissa Nissa story itself is a hint about the cyclical timeline. Nissa Nissa comes from the words Mhysa Mhysa but as time has passed, the words have changed. That is a reoccurring incident in this story. Things that refer to current phenomena have changed due to the time loop. Lightbringer isn't a sword, it's her baby: The prince that was promised. Tyrion's story is rather tragic since he becomes the man he hates the most - his father. One point the books make so much clearer is that Tyrion is despised by everyone and this starts to eat him inside. Most importantly, he is despised and betrayed by women. His first love was a whore - or that is what he has been told, his second love Shae betrayed him and slept with his father and Cersei hates her like no other. By book 5, when he has landed in Essos he keeps repeating the words "where do whores go". He is referring to his first love that he has lost. Unlike with Jon and Dany, we know what Tyrion's tag line seemingly refers to. The important part here is where he says it. He keeps uttering these words on his way to meet the most beautiful woman in Essos - Daenerys Targaryen. This ties Tyrion to Dany's three betrayals, the last being a betrayal for love. In other words, Tyrion is going to fall in love with Daenerys and it's gonna end bad since no one loves Tyrion back. That's the tragedy of Tyrion. He dreams of finding love, ruling his House and riding dragons but he will never accomplish any of those. Also, in the first drafts of the story GRRM had a very similar love triangle between Jon, Tyrion and Arya. It seems he kept it by switching Arya with Dany. It is this plot twist the show was hintint at with the weird boat scene where Tyrion looms in the shadows watching Jon enter Dany's cabin. How is Tyrion going to betray Daenerys? He will take away her power source - Drogon. Dany's three treasons will all happen with poison. Mirri Maz Duur poisoned Khal Drogo (betrayal for blood), someone in Mereen tried to poison her (betrayal for gold) and Tyrion will poison Drogon (betrayal for love). This also ties to Dany's "to go forward, I must go back" by Tyrion taking the role of Mirri Maz Duur and taking away her source of power. Tyrion is the only main character who is interested in the dragons and he is the only one who has talked about how to kill them in the books. The show has also made it very clear that he is not a fan of them in season 7. Tyrion was seen protesting the use of dragons every single time Dany either proposed it or actually did it. In the end he will be the last villain of ice and fire and in that end become just like his father Tywin by inheriting this "balance disturbing" role House Lannister has. When Dany loses Drogon she will have nothing left to protect her son with. This is why she voluntarily converts to ice. This is also talked about in the book version of House of the Undying where she is referred to as the bride of fire and told to drink from both the cup of fire and cup of ice. I believe Arya will be the one to kill Tyrion. We have seen in the last season that she will take down anyone who threatens Jon and when Tyrion puts Dany and Jon's baby that she carries in danger, she will hit back. Also, Cersei is sure that Tyrion is the one who kills her. In the end she will be wrong again thinking that she is right. It's Tyrion's face that will look at her but it's actually Arya wearing his face. Jaime on the other hand will get a nice redemption arc. He is haunted by the fact he's a kingslayer and by becoming the Hand for Dany's and Jon's baby, he gets to redeem himself. He will also rebuild his own House with the woman she loves and respects - Brienne. The same goes with Sansa. Ghost will remain with baby Targ, I believe that is what his name is hinting at. Ghost will be Jon's eyes to watch over his son. Jon always woved never to father a bastard so I think it will be very important for Jon to somehow be part of his son's life. So in the end Sansa too goes a full circle and becomes a queen like she wanted in book/season 1 albeit only temporarily. She will also be the last Stark with a direwolf by her side which symbolises her character growth. Gendry is bit of an oddball and that is due to the author. The story was originally supposed to be a trilogy but as it kept ballooning, Gendry's departure from the storyline kept getting longer aswell. I feel like him ruling Westeros with Sansa is something most people will have an issue with due to his absence. But thematically it makes perfect sense - the 3 Houses that joined forces to destroy House Targ are now joining forces to rebuild it.
  4. It's actually very straight-forward. Daenerys has been solely drinking from the cup of fire, in other words been meddling with fire magic aka dragons. She is destined to become the Night Queen and that is when she drinks from the cup of ice. There are other references to this aswell such as "bride of fire" and her "to go forward, I must go back" -line. The back is literally referring to the start of her story - to her marriage with Khal Drogo who served as a plot tool to foreshadow her "marriage" to the Night King. Nissa Nissa is a reference to this aswell since we know - thanks to the show - that the Night King was created with a knife in heart. She converts voluntarily such as her wedding night with Khal Drogo and the Nissa Nissa story suggest. This is due to 2 things: the Night King at this point is Jon Snow and she has lost all of her men and dragons to the previous NK ("valar morghulis"). By becoming the Night Queen she gains the control of her own dead men and dragons and gains the leverage to install her baby son to the throne.
  5. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    It's quite obvious how the story will end imo. One important notion to make is that the story has a cyclical perception of time. The same things keep happening over and over again, only slightly changed. Therefore the story will end the way it started. Another important point to make is the balance of ice and fire. These two themes reveal the ending. The Targaryen symbol is a big hint itself. No one knows where it came from and what's the story behind the three headed dragon. The reality is that the three headed dragon refers to the three Targaryens who keep saving their House from extinction time and time again. We know of Doom of Valyria that killed all Targs - except Aegon and his 2 sisters who united the warring kingdoms of Westeros and rebuild their House. Now, yet again, the same thing has happened. Doom in this case is Robert's Rebellion and the three Targs who unite the yet again warring kingdoms and rebuild their House are Dany, Jon and their son. The balance of ice and fire is important aswell. All the dragonlords are dead and the Targaryens are the only ones left with fire magig running in their veins. Their blood affects everything. When Dany gave birth to the dragons, magical elements became stronger throughout the world. However, it needs to be pointed out that ice magic has simultaneously been growing in power. Ice and fire aren't at odd with one another, they are faces of the same coin, feeding one another. And the only family with ice magic in their veins is House Stark. Night King is a Stark. He controls the dead by warging and it's a skill we know only the Stark children have. The current Night King is not interested in fighting ice and fire. Jon is wrong on this ("You know nothing Jon Snow"). He is only interested in bringing back the magical balance and this is where House Lannister comes in. They are the biggest threat to both Targs and Starks. The Night King will not fly his ice dragon to Winterfell, he will fly it to King's Landing. Daenerys is very obviously becoming the Night Queen. Everything points at this. All of her dragons and men will die ("Valar Morghulis") and she will be betrayed by Tyrion ("betrayal for love"). So in the end she will be in charge of her own dead men and dragons. This will give her the leverage to install her baby boy at the head of Westeros. But she is not a Stark. She can not warg. So the role of the new Night King falls upon Jon Snow. This is where his Targ/Stark -role is goinh for. He can give Dany a full-blown Targ baby AND he can warg the dead. So in the end Jon and Dany become the new Night King and Queen and their baby son (The prince that was pomised) rebuilds his House with the help of Sansa (the younger, more beautiful queen), Gendry ("there is power in King's blood") and Jaime who works as his Hand. This way all the great Houses that joined forces to attack House Targaryen in Robert's Rebellion, join forces to rebuild it. Arya kills Cersei since she is the only character who can fulfill the double-gender in the valonqar prophecy AND she spent the first season running around the dungeons of King's Landing. In other words, she knows her way in. The face she will be wearing is Tyrions. More clues to this outcome are the 7 gods of The Faith. As I've said, the story is in a time loop and the 7 gods are actually referring to the 7 heroes of this story: Dany (mother), Jon (father), Gendry (smith), Jaime (warrior), Melisandre (crone), Sansa (maiden) and the Night King (stranger). Yes, the NK is listed as one of the heroes for a reason. Once the threat for ice and fire is gone the balance is restored again. Until centuries later people have forgotten about their history and try to kill the Targs again. Then Daenerys the Night Queen will return and do what she said she would do at the end of season 1: "I swear to you, those who would harm you will die screaming!" And the people at the time will treat her and Jon as monsters. Just like they are treating the current Night King. Samwell Tarly will write this story down, hoping people will remember what happened. But it will be in vain. As a matter of fact, the story has already been written in some form because Rhaegar Targaryen knew about the three headed dragon after he read about it in Oldtown.
  6. MakeThemBurn

    Does this line confirm that TPTWP is three people?

    "The dragon has three heads" is a nod to the Targaryen symbol which in turn is a nod to the cyclical timeline the story is built on. The world is in a limbo where the same things - slightly changed - keep happening over and over again. The three dragons are the three Targaryens who keep saving their House from extinction. After the Doom we had Aegon and his three sisters who united the warring kingdoms of Westeros and rebuilt their House. Now 300 years later we have yet again 3 dragons (Dany, Jon and their son) who unite the warring kingdoms and rebuild their dynasty. The story ends with Jon and Dany "drinking from the cup of ice", in other words becoming the new Night King and Queen. Their son inherits the throne. All of Dany's men and dragons will die fighting the current Night King (Valar Morghulis) and by becoming the Night Queen she "goes forward by going back" aka marries the Night King. Khal Drogo was a plot tool foreshadowing her marriage to the NK and Nissa Nissa is a nod to her giving birth to her son. The prince that was promised is the son of Dany and Jon who will rebuild his House with the help of Sansa, Gendry and Jaime. The three Houses that tore House Targ down join forces to rebuild it. Jaime gets his redemption arc, Sansa gets to be a queen for a while and Gendry the king. Also, Tyrion is Daenerys' last betrayal and the final push she needs to accept her role as the Night Queen. Tyrion is the last villain of House Targaryen and of the balance of ice and fire.
  7. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8 Predictions?

    To be honest, out of all the characters on the show, Daenerys is the one who has gone through the biggest transformation from her book self. The show threw away all of her character progression in episode 1.10 by making her a full-blown Targaryen. They wanted a sexy, tough chick because that's media sexy but in the process the complexities of her character were ruined. So bad storytelling is not something I'd overrule in context of the show. But, to go forward, she has to go back. To the start of her journey - her marriage with Khal Drogo. Drogo was a scary undefeated barbarian who ruled the largest khalasar Essos had ever seen. Like Ygritte was a plot tool to introduce Dany to Jon's story, Khal Drogo was a plot tool to foreshadow her future marriage to another scary figure - the Night King. After Khal Drogo died, she asked Mirri Maz Duur when will she see him again and Mirri gave her a description of the icy north. (Some say that mountains blowing in the wind talk about the pyramids of Mereen but that's how GRRM writes. He loves to include little hints which he obscures by giving people something obvious to concentrate on. Sansa slaying a monster in a castle made of snow and then giving a chapter about Sansa kicking down a snow castle is a prime example. A good prophecy reveales itself in the very end. We are definitely talking about snowy mountains here). The show also had her cross the Wall (House of the undying) and walk further into north where she was reunited with Khal Drogo and her baby. If we accept that Khal Drogo was a plot tool to foreshadow her future, then these two prophecies translate into her repeating the past by marrying the Khal Drogo-like Night King and having his baby. (Her book self had tons of visions and prophecies in the House of the Undying, many of which talked about her role as the "bride of fire" and her having to drink from the cups of fire and ice. So we know that A. she will marry, B. her fire blood has a part to play in this marriage and C. that she will drink from the cup of ice). After her storyline in season 1, Dany has spent her time freeing slaves. This is when her motherhood theme kicks in hard with the slaves calling her mother. (I can't remember whether she called the slaves her children on the show, but that's all she does in the books. Understandably not very politically correct as the freed slaves are of different race than Dany on the show). Mhysa, Mhysa is a reference to Nissa Nissa but these two things are linked together. (Nissa Nissa explains the conversion process as the blade thrusted through her breast will be dragonglass that makes her the Night Queen and a figure capable of protecting the children-slaves for eternity. The Lightbringer is her child, again nodding to the motherhood theme). She also starts to wear icy colors like blue and white on the show. She obtains her army of Unsullied who are described as zombie-like ("absolutely obedient, absolutely loyal, and utterly without fear"). She begins to tout her titles. The show has made such a big deal about her titles, that I believe they too hold a double meaning. Stormborn - sure she was born amidst a storm but it could also hint at her future role since the Others are described as arriving in a snow storm. Unburnt - sure she survived through fire but she isn't the only character who is fire-proof. The Night King can walk through fire aswell. Breaker of chains ties her to the slaves who keep calling her mother nodding to the Maiden-made-of-light -role. Her Mereen arc was my favourite in the books but the show absolutely butchered it. Daenerys failed in Mereen because she was too kind. This is because she had cast Jorah out of her circle and was advised by Barristan Selmy who kept feeding her stories about her mad father. This made Dany afraid of her sanity which prompted her to try and reason with the slave masters. (There's a revealing dialogue in the early drafts of Dance with Dragons where someone asks Dany what she is afraid of. In the finished product she refuses to answer but in the early draft she says that she is only afraid of one single thing: "myself"). Her entire Mereen arc is about Dany accepting her violent dragon side. Accepting that in order to create stability in chaos one has to use necessary force. Her storyline in the fifth book is THE most important part of her story but she show missed the mark by turning Dany into a full-blown Targ from season 2 on. But in the end, what we have to understand about Daenerys is that she is a mother who won't hesitate to unleash her rage and kill those who hurt her children. She will crucify them and burn them to death. This is not madness. It's all about her protective nature. After her Mereen arc the show made her a "give me the Throne!!" -type of a person. From a teleplay perspective I get it. The show has branded itself around the Iron Throne and there is no one left to want it. Cersei wants it and she has it. And since they cut off Aegon Targaryen they no longer have anyone opposing Cersei. So the part fell for Dany. But I'm confident nothing like this will happen in the books because Dany is above all a protective character. She has been given tons of chances to leave Mereen but she has refused to do so out of fear of her children-slaves. This is what Dany is about. If we look at the themes of motherhood and slavery, everything starts to click if we accept that she will try to "break the wheel" by trying to protect her children forever. Daenerys is such a big, bombastic character with dragons and massive armies and will surely have a big bombastic ending. There is only one character as huge as she is - the Night King. This is no coincidence because we are watching the future threat from the north in making.
  8. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8 Predictions?

    They don't have to know about it. It just explains Daenerys as a character and ties all of her themes together. Motherhood is a massive theme in her story and if we accept Dany as Maiden-made-of-light we understand that everything she has been doing in Slaver's Bay makes sense from the persepctive of Maiden-made-of-light furiously protecting ALL of her children. Not just the ones of her own blood but also the slaves she calls children. By becoming the new threat she ensures their safety. If the Westerosi or the slave masters hurt her children again, Dany will return and honor the promise she made at the end of season 1: "And I swear to you, those who would harm you will die screaming!"
  9. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8 Predictions?

    There are no genders in Valyrian language. This holds true with both prince that was promised and valonqar. Also, Jon and Dany becoming the Night King and Queen does make sense when we look at their stories thematically. It's especially so if we look at Daenerys. She is already behaving like Maiden-made-of-light and her entire story arc started with her marrying the khal of all khals, Khal Drogo. Jon Snow's story is a bit more vaque, but since Dany's story suggests that she will have a king and that her conversion will happen voluntarily (Nissa Nissa exposing her breast/The controversial book version of her wedding night with Khal Drogo where she wanted to sleep with him) it makes sense that the King would be Jon at this point. Also, Jon's death scene was written in a very peculiar manner suggesting as much and the his entire story ties him to the land of always winter. Jon's story has been all about the Night King. Somewhere along the way he met the girl kissed by fire - Ygritte, who served as a plot tool to explain his love to Daenerys. From a writer's perspective there would be no need for Ygritte if the love between Dany and Jon didn't result in something bombastic.
  10. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8 Predictions?

    They become the balancing factor. Mankind will only work together if they are forced to. The Yi Ti explanation of the Long Night says that Night Queen's (aka Maiden-made-of-Light) child and his children ruled Yi Ti for thousands of years until one day the ruler was killed and the Night King (aka Lion of Night) unleashed his wrath on mankind. This explains Daenerys perfectly. She keeps calling the slaves her children and keeps killing the slave masters. In other words, she is already behaving like the Night Queen by punishing those who hurt her children. And by becoming the Night Queen she becomes an immortal, a forever threat on mankind, promising to hurt those who hurt her children. This way she can protect the Targaryen dynasty and ensure that no one dares to return back to slavery.
  11. MakeThemBurn

    Season 8 Predictions?

    Jon will become the new Night King (his entire storyline is tied to north) Daenerys will become his queen, the Night Queen (as foreshadowed by her marriage to Khal Drogo).Their child inherits the Throne and rebuilds the Targaryen dynasty (Lightbringer/Prince that was promised/Maiden-made-of-Light's child in the Yi Ti explanation of the Long Night). He can't do that all alone so the great Houses that destroyed House Targaryen work together to rebuild it. Sansa is the younger, more beautiful queen who casts Cersei aside and marries a Baratheon like she was supposed to in the very beginning of her story - Gendry King's Blood Baratheon. Tyrion is Dany's betrayal for love (in the original story there was a love triangle between Jon, Arya and Tyrion. I believe GRRM kept this but swithed Arya with Dany. It would also fit into Tyrion's theme of feeling betrayed by the women she loves). Arya uses Euron's face to kill Cersei. (This fulfills the dual meaning of the valonqar prophecy which speaks of gender neutral valonqar and then of "he" who chokes Cersei to death. It's little sister Arya using Euron's hands). Jaime becomes the Hand in the end, which is a play on words aswell as hinted on in the way Jaime gave council to Tommen. In the very end Samwell writes the story down.
  12. MakeThemBurn

    Jon will get wightified, a theory by Lothar Frey

    I find it curious how most, if not all theories think that the story will somehow dramatically change in the end. GRRM has given nothing to suggest that. Instead, he's been giving a clue after another that the world of ice and fire is in a time loop where same kind of people and incidents keep raising their heads. Time is cyclical here, not linear. The story we are reading about now is one of these time loops from the doom of House Targaryen to its restoration. The story will end just like it began. Iron Throne stays. As will the threat from the north. And yes, Jon Snow's destiny is to impregnate Dany with a Targ baby and become the Night King. Dany will become the Night Queen. Their child gets the throne and rebuilds House Targaryen. No one dares to touch the Targs with undead parents like that. The future of Dany and Jon is in the very first book where Dany married Khal Drogo (referring to the Night King) and Jon travelled to north. Meanwhile both expressed great will to protect their children (Dany in a very obvious manner and Jon by constantly saying how he will never father a bastard and make a child go through what he went through). As the undead King and Queen of Land of always winter they will keep an eye on their children. But as the world of ice and fire indeed is a time loop, they will one day return yet again when the Targs are killed. And it's a story we already know since it's very much like the one we are reading about now.
  13. MakeThemBurn

    Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

    Ah, they are resorting to the age old "man who knows everything only knows what is most convenient for the plot" -trick. Bran is just a plot tool at this point. But what I find the weirdest is that everyone has accepted that he has these superpowers. All he has to do is say that he's a 3 eyed raven and everyone believes him.
  14. MakeThemBurn

    Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

    Yup. The reason I never cared for this season. Nothing seemed to go forward and the little that did was executed in a manner that made no sense. If I remember right, D&D's original plan was to have 7 seasons but HBO pushed them to make 8. After viewing s7, I can see why D&D thought 7 was the magic number.
  15. MakeThemBurn

    Bran is the Night King

    No, I do get the point. But killing either Bran or NK would made no use of her faceless man training. She doesn't need any skills to kill Bran, neither would her skills help her to get close to NK.