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Deadlines? What Deadlines?

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  1. Yes, a lake in northern Ontario that's unmolested by humans would probably be teeming with fish. A friend of mine used to fly tourists up to a fishing lodge up there. I can't remember the name of it.

    And the "animals" might not be animals. I already mentioned a theory of the bear and the wolf attack. what if:


    The rotting deer that walked into their camp was actually some twisted memory of them exhuming one of the corpses from the crash because they were desperate for food?


  2. Holy Shit.

    There used to be a TV network called Trio that ended about a decade ago. They produced a few really good film industry documentaries, including one about the making of Heaven's Gate and one (I can't remember the name) about film ratings. They also produced one called "The Blockbuster Imperative". This thing had completely disappeared. Like, completely. You could find the IMDB page and a few news articles from back in the day, but couldn't find a physical copy (new or used) or even stream it on any platform. This was really strange considering who's in it. Mark Hamill narrates it for crying out loud.

    Anyway, some lovely human uploaded a VHS copy to Youtube. Note that this was produced years before the MCU and the SW sequel trilogy.


  3. 4 hours ago, RumHam said:

    I dunno, I feel like we should assume this is just a case of the writers not doing their research? Seems more likely to me that their intention was that she prevented a timely rescue. 

    But then I've been wrong about just about everything else! I can't believe the smashing of the box didn't get revealed to the other girls by the end of the season. I also thought Adam was Javi, Jackie was pit girl, Taissa was the antler queen and was sure we'd meet a surprise survivor at the reunion. 

    I thought the same thing. I even suspected Lotti might be the pit girl for a time.

    p.s. isn't the pit girl wearing Jackie's necklace?

    4 hours ago, Werthead said:

    The one that still puzzles me is the publicity material saying they went down in Northern Ontario, which matches the profusion of lakes and their utter isolation from the rest of civilisation, but the establishing shots of mountains in the first episode seems more like the Canadian Rockies, which sounds more desolate but actually probably puts them a lot closer to major cities (like Calgary) and makes them not being found for so long less plausible. But I can't believe they went to the trouble of getting the mountain shot and dropping it in without once thinking, "are there mountains where this thing is set?"

    I thought Rockies too. There is a mountain range in northern Ontario, but you have to squint a little to make it look like what's in the show. That part of the country would also make more sense to find a cabin owned by a French speaker, being further east.

    And if they are in Northern Ontario, they'd be screwed trying to find a road. There are parts of that province where roads and towns are pretty thin. However, there is a fair amount of fly-in fishing and hunting tourism. I would imagine they're going to see a plane sooner or later. Not the one that blew up that is.  That could be how they end up getting found: a pilot of a plane with floats sees the wreckage from the air and lands on the lake to check it out.

    And the compass going crazy is totally a thing. My home town was just inside the Canadian Shield. In grade 6 (I think) we went to the local ski hill in the spring for orienteering. We were warned that if we stood on a at a particular spot on the course to get our bearing, the compass would go mental because  we were probably standing on top of an iron deposit. Walk 20 feet in any direction and it was fine.

  4. 7 minutes ago, RumHam said:

    But the plot requires them to go undiscovered for 19 months. So barring some kinda LOST style "it's hard to find" magic they needed an explanation, and I think the one they used worked for 90% of their viewership. 

    Like the whole "lets fly the old plane" plotline was ridiculous. The gas in the plane would not still be viable, planes require maintenance. Plus how was she going to land? but we just accept these things because it's television we don't assume it was an enchanted plane.

    I maintain that teddy bear was cursed and spontaneously combusted though!

    I laughed my ass off for most of that episode. I'm like, "This idiot is so obviously going to die." She learned to fly from studying the flight manual? Seriously?

    On the other hand, It betrays a desperation that might not be obvious from scenes as-shown. I wouldn't be surprised if we get alternate flashbacks depicting a much grimmer, nastier situation.

    I still blame Misty though.

    p.s. Melanie Lynskey (adult Shauna) is a Kiwi? I had no idea.  

  5. 5 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

    Bummer... As I feared when I saw no cause of death was disclosed, he didn't die because of lifelong excesses of hard rocker lifestyle; he died because he was a pig-headed Texan. Sucks big time - specially for his family - to be most probably one of the last celebs to die from the covid pandemic :(

    God damn it.

  6. 35 minutes ago, Werthead said:

    It's a nice idea that they killed Javi instead of the bear, but it doesn't really stand up: the bear had enough meat to feed them all with lots left over, whilst Javi would have had maybe a third of the bear's mass and would not have generated the same volume of meat. Also, Lottie sacrifices the bear's heart to the tree hours after they all sober up, and it's clearly much bigger than either Javi's or Nat's would be.

    Yeah but, like, there's energy coming up out of the ground, man.

    36 minutes ago, Werthead said:

    The bear's behaviour is weird, though. It might have been that the bear was simply weak from hunger and then confused by Lottie calmly walking up to it. And the way they shot it was awkward AF because, obviously, the actors and the bear were not in the same location at any point, with the one real shot of them together being rather painful greenscreen.

    If that scene takes place just before the first snow, that bear would have spent the entire summer fattening itself up and preparing to enter its den to hibernate 'till spring; so weakness from hunger doesn't seem plausible to me. And how is it possible that they spent the entire summer there and this is the first live bear they encountered?

    A bear weak from hunger would attack. A scared or confused bear would bolt or attack. A bear surrounded by terrified humans would get aggressive. Everything about that scene is just weird.


  7. 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

    It's worth noting he's not listed as being in the last episode, so we don't know his fate. Also, the actor appears to be 13-14 years old, so he probably can't stick around for five seasons unless they're not worried about his rapid aging compared to the other young actors who seem to be in their late teens to mid 20's. 

    The ceremonial feast depicts 8 survivors. Tai, Shauna, Misty, Natalie, Travis and Lottie definitely made it out. The stature and head dress of the one on the far right suggests one of them is Van. That leaves one that isn't accounted for, although the costumes they wore to Doomcoming would probably provide a clue. I'm pretty sure we saw Javi die in episode 10.

    Here they are, looking like some Grizzly Adams version of Slipknot. Misty is serving dinner.


    1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

    They seem pretty honest.

    The best liars always do.


    1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

    The show does individual flashbacks, but I don't that scene was one of them.

    I don't know. I got the sense that scene was being told from Shauna's or Lotti's POV. Tai is also present. Travis and Natalie (the people most likely to protect Javi) are not. If you look at the individual reaction shots after Lotti stabs the bear, it's more stunned silence than anything else. And there was something really off about that bear. 

    p.s. I also thought it was strange that none of them make any effort to seek protection inside the cabin. And none of them mention the word, "bear". 

  8. 18 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

    The showrunners have stated he’s not a cult member.

    ... anymore. B)

    Jonathan Ross gave Kit Harrington a lie detector test once and he passed it with flying colors. These creative types are crafty, lying bastards. 

    18 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

    It would be kind of cool if they treated some of these things like Life of Pie, but I don’t think everyone would mistake Javi for the bear.

    If the flashback scenes are told from the POV of one of the surviving characters they might. 

  9. On 12/6/2021 at 11:19 AM, JEORDHl said:

    I got a hunchy feeling Adam might be Travis' younger brother.

    Adam was definitely a a cult member. Did anyone notice the line about taking off for the weekend to, "A cabin in the woods"? That seems like an odd suggestion given what he claims to know about her. I'd have to rewatch but I'm pretty sure one of the guys who grabbed Natalie was also one of Adam's concerned family members on TV.

    On 12/13/2021 at 5:55 PM, RumHam said:

    I'm not sure if that is still the plan. but it was when they pitched it to HBO. From the show's wikipedia article:

    Please, please, please don't fuck this up like American gods. 

    On 12/27/2021 at 8:53 AM, briantw said:

    The way that final scene was shot was really weird.  What happened to the other wolves while Van was being killed?  What happened to the torches the girls were holding?  

    Were there wolves there at all, or was it all in Tai's head?

    We know Tai is an unreliable narrator. It's also a pretty good bet that, through starvation and/or low dose poisoning, the '90's events are not told accurately. I'm also betting the mental breakdown started long before Doomcoming. Remember how in an early episode one of the girls warns the others to not eat the berries? In a later episode they're out searching for food and one of them complains there are no berries left? They also seem pretty chill about drinking fermented berry juice. 

    I'm thinking the animals might be a proxy for humans. I'd bet money that the bear was actually Javi. Why would a bear behave like that? The "bear" laid down because he was hungover from the night before. He didn't attack them because why would he attack his friends? He didn't react to Lotti approaching him because why would he? There are also parallels with the opening "dinner" and the bear feast. 

    It's possible the wolf attack was actually one group of girls attacking the other. Why does the pack evaporate when Tai kills one of them with an axe? Why don't they bring the wolf carcass back for food? Did they consume it already? I'd have to go back and rewatch but are there any minor characters who disappear after that scene? That would be the confirmation. 


  10. These guys must be defectors from other animation studios who banded together to start their own company or something. The portfolio of in-house projects on their website is remarkably thin. A few music videos, one other series and Arcane. That's it. Incredible. 

  11. 4 hours ago, IFR said:

    I don't agree with this. In season one The Wire was intelligently exploring the dysfunctions of social systems in great depth. It just happened to be focused on the legal system in the first season. It expanded that intelligent exegesis to other systems of dysfunction with each successive season.  Every part fit together beautifully at the end, and the show did as you say become the gold standard of social commentary in fiction.

    I'm not saying it wasn't there at all in the first season. The social dynamics and hierarchies at street level and within the drug trade were especially interesting. I'm just saying it's a bit soon. If it falls short of that (which it will), that's fine. 

    4 hours ago, IFR said:

    I think Rippounet and the poster formerly known as Kalbear put it rather well. The focus of this show is pretty animation and some good action sequences. The show takes care to develop its characters to lend all of this more impact. It's not being lazy about social commentary, but social commentary certainly isn't the thrust of this series, and the show doesn't really have anything original or deep to say. It's not that kind of show.

     Having great visuals ain't no sin. It is a visual medium after all.

    For me, the difference between this and other action/SFF oriented stuff (eg. the MCU) is that I can re-watch this and not just surf the action or comedy bits. The dynamic between VI and Jinx and Silco is especially well done. The world building is great and yeah, there's some political economy thrown in as well. And it's able to do this while keeping a tight focus on character and story, something The Wire was also especially good at. Bring on the second season. 

  12. 16 hours ago, Ran said:

    This is not The Wire of animated social commentary. 

    Well, that would be the gold standard, but keep in mind that it took The Wire a few seasons to become "The Wire of social commentary."  The first season was a somewhat straightforward "cops vs. criminals in the inner city" story. Also, The Wire's impact had a lot to do with a gritty realism that you can't get with an animated fantasy series. By definition. 

    As I commented in the "watching" thread, I loved this series. Gorgeous animation ('90's Disney with a mix of Bluth Studios and Nelvana) Compelling characters and some real emotional gut punches that didn't feel forced or cheesy. I also loved the steampunk aesthetic, which seemed "just right". Great production design. Not overdone. Zaun seemed more Art Nouveau and Piltover more Art Deco. I might seeing things but I though that was a nice touch. 

    I also commented there that they used an Alphonse Mucha painting in the under-city landscape. It's derived from his commercial work (a JOB rolling papers advert).  What I didn't know is that Mucha had a bunch of non-commercial work, specifically his Slav Epic, which was a collection of massive canvasses he did for an American client. Maybe I'm crazy, but if I squint a little bit, I think there's some inspiration from those works on the aesthetic of the series. I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case.  

    Best SFF series 2021? If I had to choose between this and Squid Game that'd be tough. I'm not sure on that one.

    As far as animated series go I'd say, "definitely". With all due respect to Love Death + Robots, that's a different animal. A short film anthology isn't a series. There is room in my heart for both.

    Arcane certainly scratches an itch for me that The Bad Batch didn't. Not to dump on that show but I found it a bit boring and a bit repetitive. I didn't even finish the season. Between that and the last season of The Mandalorian, I'm done with Star Wars.

    I haven't seen What If? or SW: Visions, but I doubt they're as good.

  13. On 5/25/2021 at 9:45 AM, Zorral said:

    The failure of outside corps coming into the Entertainment industry has been in play for decades longer, though.  It doesn't only happen with movies, but it sure did happen in the older days when there was a music industry,

    And there are plenty of examples of film studios that failed without interference from the Wall street types.

    On 5/25/2021 at 9:45 AM, Zorral said:

    Also, the past record of AT&T's guy is one, as pointed out by another poster, of consistently failing upward,  typical of corps' mo and culture.

    Be that as it may, there is an angle to this story the article is ignoring. And regardless of how they got there, there is a pretty good business case for spinning off Warner Media. I'm sure the debt service on that $40-odd billion is several hundred million a year.

    Look at Disney. According to Google Finance, Disney's net income, for FY2019, was $11.05 billion. This crashed to a $2.86 billion loss in FY2020. Bob Chapek became CEO in Feb. 2020. If I was evaluating his performance over the last year, would it be remotely fair to do so without accounting for Covid? Of course not.  

    Disney, by the way, is also a company who came into this pandemic carrying a significant debt load due to the Fox acquisition. Unlike other studios, they were also positioned to be hit especially hard because of their parks business.  It wouldn't surprise me if they made  an equally dramatic announcement before this pandemic is done.  I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to sell off a piece of the Avatar sequels or the Kingsman Franchise. Maybe even a small stake in Pixar. This is all speculation of course. 

    As an aside, it seems to me that Warner Media has been treated a bit too harshly in the entertainment press over the last year. When they announced they were doing simultaneous streaming/theatrical releases for WW84 and throughout 2021, people lost their minds. On the other hand, instead of delaying, Disney released Artimis Fowl and Mulan on Disney+ and there was barely a peep. Black Widow will be getting a simultaneous streaming/theatrical release this summer and I can't detect any criticism at all.  

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