markg171

The direwolf section needs to be updated. It says in the opening blurb:

A direwolf is a close relative of the wolf, but larger and stronger. They are named after the real world direwolves, Pleistocenemegafauna, which were larger than modern wolves (but not as large as portrayed in the books). Direwolves are extinct South of the Wall, as they are a very large and dangerous predator, and people have probably hunted them out. [1] A grey direwolf in a white field is the sigil of House Stark.

If you actually follow the link to the reference it says this:

Shaw: Is there any reason why you never hear of direwolves north of the Wall?

Martin: They're an extinct animal in that part. They're a very large and dangerous predator, and people have probably hunted them out.

So according to Martin, direwolves are supposed to be extinct north of the Wall, not south of the wall as the wiki says.

This isn't really the place for it as it's more or less the complete opposite, but has anybody read the Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks? I'm doing a re-read of the series right now and Weeks seems to have been influenced by GRRM.

- Duke Regnus Gyre is one of the most powerful men in the country. He's also one of the most honourable men, and refuses to stage a coup to take the throne when the old king dies, despite knowing that he would be a better ruler than the king's son who is set to succeed him. This references Ned refusing to take the throne after the Sack and instead letting Robert have it

- Gyre is sent to garrison Screaming Winds, the northernmost post in the country by the new king. Screaming Winds reminds me heavily of the Wall, and Ned was supposed to be sent there for trying to crown Stannis

- Unlike Ned though, Gyre makes it there and ends up serving there for 10 years IIRC. But then upon his return he is murdered. So in both series the powerful honourable man is sentenced to the northernmost outpost and murdered.

- King Aleine IX is almost exactly like Aerys. He's paranoid, weak, mad, stupid, generous to his allies, and his family has been weakening for generations like the Targaryens did

- There's a king, but the real power rests with the Sa'Kage, the city's underworld. Much like how Littlefinger and Varys controlled a lot of the real power in King's Landing

- The mad king is murdered during a coup by his commander (Lord General Agon vs Ser Jaime Lannister)

I thought of a bunch more last night as I started my re-read (I'm only like 100 pages into the first book), but I can't remember them at the moment. But there's tons of parallels that leads me to believe that Weeks was definitely influenced by Martin

Barbara Hambly's Winterlands series, in particular the Northlands and Lord John Aversin, seem to have influenced Martin.

- Northern culture that's always somewhat wintery (Northlands vs North)

- Said northern culture is full of "barbarians" and is seen as less civilized than the south

- There's a northern lord who dispenses justice for a far away king (John Aversin vs Ned Stark)

- Said northern lord never wanted the job (John Aversin would rather read books and be an engineer, Ned Stark was the second son who wasn't supposed to rule)

- Nonetheless, both northern lords do their duty despite taking no joy in it

- The northern lord committed a notable, impossible deed years ago (John Aversin slayed a dragon 10 years ago and is the only living person to have done so vs Ned killing Arthur Dayne, the best fighter in Westoros 14 years ago)

- The northern lord is called to the south (John to slay another dragon vs Ned to become Hand)

- Upon arriving south, the northern lord doesn't try and blend into the southern decadence and politics (John pretends to be a complete fool vs Ned remaining aloof and honourable)

- Reality is not what the songs say it is (Sansa Stark's love of knights vs Gareth's love of songs about Dragonbanes)

- Upon learning that things aren't like in the songs, the innocent characters are forced to grow up and accept their lot (Sansa has to first be betrothed to a monster in Joffrey, then a dwarf in Tyrion vs Gareth eventually becoming king)

- the king, a former noted warrior, is ruled through his queen (Robert/Cersei vs Uriens/Zyerne

In particular, I especially see parallels between these passages about dragon slaying:

“No doubt. Well, Hugor Hill, answer me this. How did Serwyn of the Mirror Shield slay the dragon Urrax?”

“He approached behind his shield. Urrax saw only his own reflection until Serwyn had plunged his spear through his eye.”

Haldon was unimpressed. “Even Duck knows that tale. Can you tell me the name of the knight who tried the same ploy with Vhagar during the Dance of the Dragons?”

Tyrion grinned. “Ser Byron Swann. He was roasted for his trouble … only the dragon was Syrax, not Vhagar.”

"Did you-did you see him slay the dragon?" Gareth asked, after they had ridden in silence for some minutes. "Would you tell me about it? Aversin is the only living Dragonsbane-the only man who has slain a dragon. There are ballads about him everywhere, about his courage and his noble deeds... That's my hobby. Ballads, I mean, the ballads of Dragonsbanes, like Selkythar the White back in the reign of Ennyta the Good and Antara Warlady and her brother, during the Kinwars. They say her brother slew..." By the way he caught himself up Jenny guessed he could have gone on about the great Dragonsbanes of the past for hours, only someone had told him not to bore people with the subject. "I've always wanted to see such a thing-a true Dragonsbane-a glorious combat. His renown must cover him like a golden mantle."

And, rather to her surprise, he broke into a light, wavery tenor:

Riding up the hillside gleaming,

Like flame in the golden sunlight streaming;

Sword of steel strong in hand,

Wind-swift hooves spurning land,

Tall as an angel, stallion-strong,

Stern as a god, bright as song...

In the dragon's shadow the maidens wept,

Fair as lilies in darkness kept.

‘I know him afar, so tall is he,

His plumes as bright as the rage of the sea,

'Spake she to her sister, ‘fear no ill...'

Jenny looked away, feeling something twist inside inside her at the memory of the Golden Dragon of Wyr.

She remembered as if it were yesterday instead of ten years ago the high-up flash of gold in the wan northern sky, the plunge of fire and shadow, the boys and girls screaming on the dancing floor at Great Toby. They were memories she knew should have been tinted only with horror; she was aware that she should have felt only gladness at the dragon's death. But stronger than the horror, the taste of nameless grief and desolation came back to her from those times, with the metallic stench of the dragon's blood and the singing that seemed to shiver the searing air...

Her heart felt sick within her. Coolly, she said, "For one thing, of the two children who were taken by the dragon, John only managed to get the boy out alive. I think the girl had been killed by the fames in the dragon's lair. It was hard to tell from the state of the body. And if she hadn't been dead, I still doubt they'd have been in much condition to make speeches about how John looked, even if he had come riding straight up the hill-which of course he didn't."

"He didn't?" She could almost hear the shattering of some image, nursed in the boy's mind.

"Of course not. If he had, he would have been killed immediately."

"Then how..."

"The only way he could think of to deal with something that big and that heavily armored. He had me brew the most powerful poison that I knew of, and he dipped his harpoons in that."

"Poison?" Such foulness clearly pierced him to the heart. "Harpoons? Not a sword at all?"

Jenny shook her head, not knowing whether to feel amusement at the boy's disappointed expression, exasperation at the way he spoke of what had been for her and hundreds of others a time of sleepless, nightmare horror, or only a kind of elder-sisterly compassion for the naïvete that would consider taking a three-foot steel blade against twenty-five feet of spiked and flaming death. "No," she only said, "John came at it from the overhang of the gully in which it was laired-it wasn't a cave, by the way; there are no caves that large in these hills. He slashed its wings first, so that it couldn't take to the air and fall on him from above. He used poisoned harpoons to slow it down, but he finished it off with an ax."

"An ax?!" Gareth cried, utterly aghast. "That's-that's the most horrible thing I've ever heard! Where is the glory in that? Where is the honor? It's like hamstringing your opponent in a duel! It's cheating!"

"He wasn't fighting a duel," Jenny pointed out. "If a dragon gets into the air, the man fighting it is lost."

"But it's dishonorable!" the boy insisted passionately, as if that were some kind of clinching argument.

The stories say to do something impressive and honourable when trying to kill a dragon. Doing so only gets you killed.

Someone's probably pointed all of this out though, but if not then yay for being the first :)

This bolded isn't right:

The Great Harrenhal tourney

Date: 281 AC, Main article: Tourney at Harrenhal

Possibly the most pivotal event prior to A Song of Ice and Fire, this tourney took place more than a decade before the events in A Game of Thrones, and only few details have been disclosed so far. The tourney was held by Lord Walter Whent in honor of his daughter and to show off his house's power; it was the greatest tourney of its time and perhaps ever. Crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen was champion, and in the end chose Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty. This was scandalous in that, not only was Rhaegar already married (to Elia Martell), but Lyanna herself was betrothed to Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar's indiscretion culminated in his abduction of Lyanna a year later, which touched off the War of the Usurper and brought an end to Targaryen rule. Also at this occasion, 15-year-old Jaime Lannister was admitted into the order of the Kingsguard, and a mystery knight, the "Knight of the Laughing Tree", appeared in the lists to fight for the honour ofHowland Reed of Greywater Watch.

Champion: Rhaegar Targaryen.

• Unknown jousters defeated the 4 sons of Lord Walter Whent of Harrenhal
  
• The Knight of the Laughing Tree defeated a member of House Haigh
  
• The Knight of the Laughing Tree defeated a member of House Blount
  
• The Knight of the Laughing Tree defeated a member of House Frey
  
• Rhaegar Targaryen defeated Yohn Royce
  
• Rhaegar Targaryen defeated Brandon Stark
  
• Rhaegar Targaryen defeated Arthur Dayne
  
• Rhaegar Targaryen defeated Barristan Selmy
  

Other participants: Gerold Hightower, Oswell Whent, Robert Baratheon, and Richard Lonmouth.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/History_of_tourneys_in_Westeros#The_Great_Harrenhal_tourney

- Gerold Hightower never competed in anything as far as we know. He was just there.

- Oswell Whent competed in the joust. He was one of the original 5 champions.

- Robert Baratheon competed in the melee, not the joust.

- Richard Lonmouth never competed as far we know. He was just there.

So I would either strike Richard and Gerold out of there or include them in a list of attendees. I would add Whent to the list of jouster and say he was defeated by an unknown jouster (as he would have had to have been for Rhaegar and Barristan to be the finalists), and I would either add a separate section for melee participants and put Robert in that, or simply strike him off as well

I think the editor noticed that where Robert really hates Rhaegar, Eddard does not display that emotion. I think this difference is noteworthy. Especially as Robert accused Rhaegar of having raped Eddard's sister. It looks a bit like "the curious incident of the dog in the night-time".

But I agree that "neutral" may be too strong worded. Better to just to state that Eddard's only thought about Rheagar that is mentioned in the books, is that he did not think Rhaegar had frequented brothels.

Eddard really doesn't display any negative emotion in the series, other than to the Lannisters. He never says anything bad about Aerys who definitely killed his father and brother, so I don't really see the importance of saying that he doesn't feel anything towards Rhaegar who might have raped his sister. For him, the matter was settled when both died.

I really dont think this should be on Rhaegars page:

Eddard Stark, Robert's friend and Lyanna's brother, remembers Rhaegar in a neutral manner

The citation that its based off of are these:

There was no answer Ned Stark could give to that but a frown. For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.

“Your Grace, I never knew you to fear Rhaegar.” Ned fought to keep the scorn out of his voice, and failed. “Have the years so unmanned you that you tremble at the shadow of an unborn child?”

The first reveals nothing about Neds feelings towards Rhaegar except that he didnt think that he went to brothels, and neither does the second as it only reveals that Robert never feared Rhaegar. So theres no basis for saying that Ned thinks about Rhaegar in a neutral manner, except for the fact that he doesnt ever think of him in any particular way. In which case, theres then no reason to be pointing out that he doesnt have any particular feelings towards Rhaegar as you can do that for every character in the books.

So I would remove that sentence as it does nothing and its citations do not show this.

Bear Island, definly. But did Jeor himself? Or had he already joined the NW?

We don't know, so this is how that was solved for the time being.

Now that I'm thinking it, I think Jeor might have been in the NW by that point.

Jorah remembers Rhaegar fighting Robert. Ned does as well. So they were together in the battle. Then we have Roose Bolton being present with Ned and Robert when Barristan was brought before them. That places Roose in the same place as Jorah and Ned.

Roose was presumably Lord of the Dreadfort by this point seeing as he had an heir in Domeric who was between 2-4, and he seems to have been a part of Ned and Robert's inner counsel. So if Roose was a Lord and was fighting beside Ned and Robert, then Jorah being there also would seem to indicate that he was a Lord too.

In Jeor Mormont's History it says:

"Presumably, Jeor, as Lord of Bear Island, marched to war under Lord Eddard Stark's banner during Robert's Rebellion"

We know that Jorah was at the Trident so I'd say it's safe to say that Bear Island marched with Ned.

ACOK suggests it is common practice for the King to personally bestow the White Cloak on new KG. But I agree with RT here

Well Joffrey was the one who bestowed cloaks on Swann and Osmund, I know that. Swann got his for his bravery during the riot so it was a sign of the king thanking him I thought. Same as Barristan receiving his for killing Maelys.

But Jaime had his cloak given to him by Hightower, And we're told that Aerys made a huge deal of Jaime's entrance to the KG by doing it in front of half the realm and with every KG present. Yet Hightower put the cloak on him, and then Aerys promptly sent him away. So it seemed to me that Aerys wanted to make a big deal of having the youngest KG ever, but didn't want to give him favour as we know he was trying to slight Tywin.

I had always taken that last quote to mean that it had happened on Jaehaerys' orders..

The World of Ice and Fire does not clarify, nor does the app, as far as I am aware.

We could change it into

Barristan was named to the Kingsguard at the age of twenty-three and swore his vows before Ser Gerold Hightower, when King Jaehaerys II Targaryen bestowed the white cloak upon him.

?

Ya something like that works.

I think Barristan's Early Life section needs to be changed a bit. It currently reads:

Barristan was named to the Kingsguard at the age of twenty-three and swore his vows before Ser Gerold Hightower during the reign of Jaehaerys II Targaryen.^[11]

Barristan was named to the KG by Hightower yes.

Named to the Kingsguard in his 23rd year, by Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower - ASOS 67

And Hightower heard his vows

Ser Gerold Hightower himself heard my vows - AGOT 57

But Jaehaerys is the one who gave him the cloak

Aegon's son Jaehaerys had bestowed the white cloak on him when he was three-and-twenty, after he slew Maelys the Monstrous during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. - ADWD The Queensguard 48

I'm not sure if it's just currently awkwardly worded but I think it should be noted somewhere in there that Jaehaerys himself gave Barristan the cloak. Because my reading of what's written down currently makes it sound like Hightower did everything and Barristan was only accepted into the KG during Jaehaerys reign, whereas Jaehaerys actually bestowed him the cloak that made him a KG due to him personally having done a service to the realm.

Robert Baratheon's Appearance and Character needs to be changed. It says

In his youth he was described as very tall (Ned Stark estimates his height at six feet and six inches, with his brothers slightly shorter), broad shouldered and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. He kept himself clean shaven. However, after winning the crown he became overweight from excessive feasting and drinking, eventually gaining over eight stone in weight and growing a beard to hide his multiple chins.

He became overweight after the Greyjoy Rebellion. Not after winning the crown.