Hrulj

He is stabbed to death. And no one has ever doubted he’d come back alive. It’s shitty writing by Martin that’s all.

Historical precedent? Literally built their dominance of the north trough extermination, slaughter and rape. Ned is an outlier and an Arryn by behavior more than a Stark. Manderly wants to be Lord Regent for young Rickon and see's for himself there a way to seize the power, marry his kin into Starks and rule the North in his name rather than serve a Bolton.

Stannis and Asha make a good match.

Know where it originated from? Jon is alive and well at the wall. Yet Ned feels like a failure and thinks of Lyanna and Daenarys. Shagging like bunnies and making babies can happen consensually and non consensually. Kingsguard was there constantly. Doubt Rhegar left her much choice in the matter or that abortificants were available in such a measure. Bed of blood could be her last attempt to kill it. Even in a birth that leads to a mothers death there is rarely much blood, nevermind the ammount needed to be a bed of blood. For all we know she could've been stabbing her gut to kill Jon She probably went with Rhegar willingly. Lyanna strikes me as a mysoginist and her doing that was an ultimate slap to femininity and roles expected of it. However once her brother and father were roasted by Targaryens as consequences of her actions and now thousands of men were fighting to the death over it, doubt she'd be in much of a mood. The end of the kinguard to me hints of rape the most. The war is over. Rhegar is dead. It's Ned Stark coming to the tower, is he going to kill Lyanna and the baby? They knew there is no hope of winning either so even if a monster was coming they could do nothing about it. Yet they insist on dying rather than surrendering and facing judgement - acts of men who know they'd be killed anyway - which as men who aided Rhegar in rape they certainly would. They chose to die with swords in hands rather than face the axe or worse later. I do hate the popular concept of Jon, not Jon himself. He's the messiah, the promised child, the third head, the child born into wedlock of Rhegar and Lyanna, the one that will end the Long Night by brooding extra nicely, the prophesized blood meant for greatness, Azor Ahai, the prophecised savior of the universe of legends past. I'd much prefer the story of never wanted rejected rapespawn whose uncle was made to promise to kill him but couldn't, so he sent him off to the wall to die in a way that saves Neds precious honor, a child that Rhegar would spit on because he's a boy and not a Visenya.

Hopefully go beyond the wall and never return or just end his life. In an ideal story Lyanna asked Ned to kill the rapespawn but he couldn't which is why he feels like he failed.

George is not good with numbers. It's simple as that, from gold rewards to size of things. 120 acres of land were valued at a lb of silver. Even at 1 gram of gold in a coin, Hound walked away with 40 kilos of gold. At ratio of 60-1 of silver to gold value he has 2400 lb of silver on him and could buy 288 000 acres of land for himself acording to medieval pricing. It's an insane sum people were handed.

People could be married quite young in medieval period, it's the consumation of marriage that matters the most for the age and was often delayed sometimes even for years.

Maegor for Targaryens. Without him Targaryens wouln't be able to rule for centuries. He stabilized the realm and dealt a death blow to all opposing institution, then took the blame and did everyone a favor by dying

Black sword on gold going trough a falling red and black dragon.

Eventually the costs of slavery outweigh the benefits, yes. Which is a point I also made previously. Elite has to have leisure if it is to create. Poetry is good but nothing compared to math. Look up any mathematician, from Pythagoras to Isaac Newton and others and tell me how much hard physical labor did they get done. Heck, tell me what percentage of modern mathematicians, physicists, chemists, doctors and others do hardcore physical labor.

That tiny number is all that matters for human progress. They're the inventors, phylosophers and those that move society forward. After contact with slaver societies there was indeed some slave owning. It absolutely is - after slavery. No slaveless society ever advanced if it wasn't on products of slavery. Yeah, sucks to live there doesnt it.

There literally isn't an advanced ancient society that didn't benefit from slavery. All science and technology originates from them. Keep telling yourself that

That human cost is far outweighed by benefits to humanity it offers. Yeah it does tell me that it's an institution based on choice to live as a slave or die free. The fact that trough history many chose to live as slaves than die or kill themselves to avoid it should also tell you how people felt about either of those choices. Thanks to the black death wiping out half of Europe and handing power back into peasants hands. Previous centuries were worse. But even ignoring that - science and human progress stagnated for a thousand years. We could've colonized the stars, solved poverty, racism and cured many a disease and human issue if we didn't stagnate for that period.

Hardly. That is Daenary's POV. A notorious hater of slavery. Slavers bay was a better place during slavery than after her liberation as attested by many who lived in both. I was held in heliodrom concentration camp from 92 till 94, does that count? Where have I ever suggested we should have slavery today? I was clearly speaking within historical context. Slavory in modern industrial and post industrial age is a wasteful abomination. Westeros, Esos and others are not post industrial tho. And as history shows slavery lead to leisure class and following that - development of science and other pursuits. Just saying slavery bad because its bad today is like I said, folly. She clearly made lives worse for everyone, brought war and starvation, famine, the land is failing, cause she decided to just abolish a milennia old institution overnight.

Europe based its culture on Greece and Rome, a renowned slaving and genocidal empires and not on their own germanic ancestors who were freemen and their direct genetic predecesors. Rome and Greece were the centers of scholarly pursuits and higher learning as well. Europe spent milenia pursuing the glory of Rome and seeking to recreate it. Ancient China was a slaving empire, and again, a center of scholarly learning. Babylon, Assyria, Egypt. You wanna argue it's due to cross-contact. Sure. So lets look at Americas. The only true advanced civilizations in Americas by the time of European arival that developed complex science, phylosophy and religion were Aztecs, Mayans and Incans, and civilizations impacted by them, all of which had slavery, or in case of Inca - forced labor to the nation without personalized slavery - slavery. Even Missisipians that built Cahokia mounds practiced slavery. The free nations of America that had no slaves practiced none of it. Many even failed to adopt simple things as agriculture. To say slavery didn't help develop pre-industrial world is height of folly. Name a great civilization that didn't practice slavery or benefit from others that practiced it. Pretty much. It's a natural state of human being. Slavery didn't start and end with American chattel race based slavery. Nor is Ghiscary slavery based on it. Slaves of Ghis are more akin to Greek slavery where they're allowed to practice their skilled trades if they have them and even reach good living standards as opposed to American slavery where everyone worked the plantation fields.

Slavery is a natural part of pre-industrial societies that allowed them to be great, succesful and develop leisurely pursuits like mathematics, monumental architecture, philosophy etc. I don't see a reason to judge it. As for Green Grace she's probably technically right, that Ghiscari weren't always primarily slavers. But they were slavers nonetheless.

Tactically sound decision is not to attack and give Jon to Ramsay if he comes for him. That’s all. It has no defenses south for that exact reason. as member of NW he can’t do that without involving NW. He swore an oath and has to stay at the wall. If he decides to leave watch should kill him. It is pathbreaking and crime is his and punishment was just. He can sit and surrender himself to Ramsay if it comes to that. Watch takes no part. wrong. Jon makes selfish decisions over and over again. If he wanted what’s best for the wall he’d accept Stannis offer or surrender himself. He’s a selfish teen who only looks out for things he cares for. 1. Action to take is fulfill all parts that you can. 2. He isn’t. Take no part means take no part. Kids and women get raped everywhere. He didn’t care until it was his own family.

Yup. And if she loses she’ll die. Watch has a duty to the wall. Watch can’t afford to be abolished or destroyed. Dany is a claimant and watch isn’t. Watch has survived for 8000 Years due to neutrality. Who’ll be sent to the watch or go there if it means your enemies could raise arms against you from there. That’s not on the watch. He didn’t tell them who to pick and they didn’t ask him to appoint someone or picked his choice. Not comparable to raising arms. Find a better argument. I hate Daenarys and her abolishment of slavery. Jon is sworn to the watch. To leave it means he’s a deserter and has to be murdered. If watch doesn’t do it then they will their duty and watch falls apart. You can’t just leave it. It has to be maintained by some nonetheless. Doesn’t matter. Jon should wait until Ramsay attacks and defend himself. He has no right to raise arms and attacks or defend off the wall.

She’s not sworn a sacred oath to stay out of affairs of the realm. People coming to aid the watch is not the same as watch acting on its own to interfere in the realm. Apples and oranges. Everyone was called to aid. Apples and oranges. People coming to aid the watch is not the same as watch raising arms and attacking warden of the North.

Jon has betrayed the NW when he decided to interfere into affairs of the realm and break neutrality. That’s a simple fact that no moralizing can change.

Civil war in entire nation while maintaining image of strength for himself beats rebellious vassals under himself and a peaceful realm. He won that war in the end.

Feudal lords are closer to mafia bosses than government workers. All their power and rule is based on public perception among their equals and peasantry. To allow his son to be taken at will by another great house would be admitting weakness and invite civil war within westerlands as well as disorder. Tywin did the right thing

You should come up with more inovative insults. Let’s now find a way to make a serial rapist and sexual abuser into a protagonist because he doesn’t remind us of our dad

1. There are no non-combatants. All there are members of a household or sworn to serve it and followed them into rebellion. Fact no one rebelled afterwards against him is a show of what a great decision that had been. 2. Shouldn't have stollen and humiliated his dead mother and ordered people above her station around. Parading a woman naked is a common westerosi punishment for scandalous behavior. 3. Doesn't matter to me. Both her and Tyrion should know better 4. It's part of life, not 21st century. 9. So? Ned spared children and led tens if not hundreds of thousands to death. Even today I'd happily pull the train switch onto one kid to save hundreds of thousands of people from same train. 10. Don't care So? It's a side that exists in the world today nevermind centuries ago.

Cersei abused her brother since he was born and she wasn't yet a teenager. She murdered her best friend. She manipulated her brother for his entire life. She concocted a plan, from the get go, to cuckold the king. First it was meant to be Rhegar and then it became Robert. There was no intention whatsoever of staying loyal to either of those men. Her children are to be inbred, so they can resemble her. Her joy at marrying Robert was at the prospect of being Queen. She cheats on her brother and Robert with many other men. She raises maniacs for children and allows them to grow up to be monsters. She sells people into slavery. She orders murders of dozens of children, explicitly orders it. She sends dozens if not hundreds to be tortured and experimented on by Qyburn. She witnesses the tortures and abuses of Sansa Stark and does nothing. And then we have a guy who just didn't care that potential civil war causes got killed and that gets drunk because he can't get over losing the "love of his life". Yep, just about the same right there.