Floki of the Ironborn

We need way more context. 

Do we know if Argilac knew that Aegon was already married? It seems like his marriage proposal was an act of desperation rather than a calculated move. 

13 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Varamyr is younger than assumed imo. Though I have not really seen claims that he’s “older”?

He's described as "grey-faced", so maybe people assume that means he's an old guy? 

On 4/7/2024 at 10:36 PM, KingoftheRiversandtheHills said:

The Dustins have no claim over the Rills, they have claim over the Barrowlands. Also, I don think the Ryswell's have such a good claim over the Rills to be made lord paramounts to it, even if the Rills are a big enough piece of land to warrant it. The Ryswell's only became lords after House Ryder died. It is unclear how they died, but it is implied that it was after they rebelled against Theon Stark.

 

Why would they be sworn to those houses? Their lands are too far apart. 

Touché 

On 4/1/2024 at 2:56 PM, KingoftheRiversandtheHills said:

Do you think Flints Finger would be sworn to House Reed as Lord Paramount or not?

No, they'd be sworn to whoever controls the Rills, be they Dustin or Ryswell. 

Sorry, I confused my Flints for a second.

14 hours ago, Nevets said:

The real world didn't get time zones until well into the 1800s.  Before that, nothing, including information, moved fast enough for it to matter.  Railroads changed that.

Same thing with Planetos.  Timekeeping isn't precise enough and things don't move fast enough for it to matter.

Fair enough, call me naive then. I guess I just assumed that the concept of time zones existed before we defined it. And yeah, fair play, it doesn't really change the story. 

Assuming that Westeros is the size of South America, I would assume that there's got to be at least two different time zones at work.

Then again, I don't know how Planetos works in relation to our world. Has GRRM ever shed light on that?

Well, it would be the Neck, and House Reed basically is Lord Paramount of that region already, in all but name.

I'm sure Dustin and Ryswell will compete for overlordship of the Rills. 

As for other regions...

Both the Stormlands and Reach will have to appoint a Lord Paramount of the Dornish Marches, since they each have half. I imagine Tarly would take that title in the Reach, while the Stormlands half would go to either House Caron or House Swann.

I could probably come up with other examples, but it's late where I am.

No. The Lord Commander cannot leave the Wall. 

10 hours ago, Hippocras said:

I can’t find which thread right now, but someone recently posted about their interest in names ending with « ei », noting that this was something which occurs in relatively few families, and wondering what connection if any these characters might have had to Serenei of Lys.

I thought it would be interesting to collect examples here.

Most of the characters are found in the Crakehall family or Crakehall descendants in other families.

Married to a son of Amarei Crakehall we find Wynafrei Whent (who had no children) and in the same connected branch of the Frey family tree there is also Carolei Waynwood. This branch of the tree contains many family names that originate from the vicinity of Harrehnal (Darry, Whent, Hawick, and possibly Vypren though we do not know the location of their seat). 

The Crakehall family, meanwhile, is one of the few to use the name Shiera. The first Shiera, chronlologically, was of course a Blackwood and was the means by which the Storm Kings of House Durrendon claimed the Riverlands. This occured because the River Lords refused to be ruled by a woman after Shiera’s father died. The name Shiera does not end with « ei » but of course the mother of Shiera Seastar was Serenei of Lys.

This presents some interesting questions. Was Shiera Blackwood part Lyseni? Or does it work the other way around. Maybe Serenei of Lys was part Westerosi and connected to the Crakehalls, who themselves descended from Shiera Blackwood and her House Durrendon husband.

What other examples of names ending in « ei » can you list? Where do they fit in the timeline?

"e-i"? "E-I"?

Oh...

4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So in the Strange Marriages thread, I was intrigued by one particular marriage between Branda Stark, elder daughter of Rodrik Stark, and Harrold Rogers of the Stormlands. Simply put, Harrold Rogers is/was a mere knight, several degrees below a lordship of any kind (and on the other side of the country to boot). How come the Starks were content with marrying Branda to a knight? If Branda were unmarried, why wasn't she flung at Rickard, whom her sister Lyarra married?

 

I mean, Leyton Hightower married his daughter off to some rando called Jon Cupps. It happens sometimes.

While I do think that Sweetrobin is Littlefinger's biological son, I don't think Arryn was examining the parenthood of his own son. He was absolutely looking into Robert's children.

I agree that it's a funny thing to imagine, but I don't think it's anything but that; imagination.

I think it happened as Aurane Waters claimed. Sure, he's a slippery liar, but Loras' injuries play into the danger that Margaery Tyrell is in with the Faith, so I think GRRM can be trusted on this one.

9 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

I have heard it suggested, and think there's some merit in the idea, that the rise of the Golden Company damaged the Watch. If the Watch was largely made up of prisoners, political exiles and younger sons who stood to inherit nothing, once the GC appeared there was an alternative, a quasi-honourable Westeros-minded organisation always happy for new recruits, but which looks a lot more fun and offers a lot more opportunities (i.e. any) to get rich and laid, not to mention the weather's much nicer, and in theory leaves open the possibility to come back to Westeros and own land and stuff, whereas the Watch means renouncing all of that.

Indeed, the GC was even founded by someone who was meant to go the NW but defected.

It is probably a coincidence that the GC has about 10,000 men and that's the size the Watch was at the start of Aegon's reign. Not that all those people would necessarily have gone to the NW instead, but surely quite a lot of them would.

That doesn't seem right to me either. There are tons of mercenary companies in Essos, and there always have been. The Stormbreakers, for one, and the Wolf Pack. Are you saying that all those men in the companies would have gone to the Wall without that option?

4 hours ago, Aebram said:

It still seems unlikely to me that the Watch remained at full strength over thousands of years before Aegon's Conquest, and then lost 90% of its strength in a mere 300 years.  

That makes me think that the Night's Watch was already under strength when they were down to 10,000 men.

What I find very strange, though, is that there seem to be fewer and fewer people going to the Night's Watch post-Conquest. You'd think that it would be much easier for people to go north when the seven kingdoms aren't constantly warring with each other. I get that the North would value any additional recruits for the Wall, but allowing the transportation of prisoners across northern land feels like that could lead to some truly devious tricks in trying to conquer the North. Any one of the southern kingdoms could pull a Cersei and send a small army of men North under the guise of NW recruits, then infiltrate Winterfell instead, or something like that. 

12 hours ago, James Steller said:

There’s a moment in FAB where the surviving greens are debating what to do after Lord Baratheon’s defeat and death. Several black armies are descending upon the capital to depose Aegon II and free Aegon the Younger. The greens debate their next move, including the question of whether Aegon the younger will allow Aegon II to go to the Wall. Aegon even considers it until his mother reminds him that he fed Rhaenyra to a dragon and made her son watch.

It just struck me how strange it is that Corlys, Aegon II, and Alicent all assume that the decision will be made by Aegon himself. He couldn’t even give orders to his own Kingsguard while he was under age. And we see later on that he isn’t involved in what to do with Alicent, or even his own marriage. Why would anyone assume that he could decide the fate of Aegon II? 

Corlys was just saying anything to make Aegon II surrender. He knows that Aegon II is a doomed man, and maybe even Aegon himself knew it, because he actually considers what Corlys has to say. 

Though to be honest, I think he should have listened to Tyland Lannister and put Aegon the Younger to death. The boy was useless to him as a hostage, clearly, because the war carried on regardless of Aegon's imprisonment. Plus the boy's survival serves as a rallying beacon to all of Aegon II's enemies.

12 hours ago, sifth said:

 

A related one is that the Three Eyed Crow isn’t Blood Raven, but future Bran. 

How would that even work? Which of Bran's brothers did he hate? Which woman did he desire?

Ned Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen are not the same. Ned's actions could be described as naive and well-meaning. Rhaegar's could not. He was an utterly selfish coward who stirred a hornet's nest before hiding away for more than a year while everyone else got stung. 

50 minutes ago, James Steller said:

If Marston Waters hadn’t died during the Secret Siege, Aegon would have taken him up on his offer and ordered him to fall on his sword once he came of age. 

That's a pretty horrific headcanon, you should seek help.
Still, I woudn't have minded that much if Aegon did something as psychopathic as that, because he'd never have commanded the loyalty of the Kingsguard ever again. I'd give it a fortnight before Aegon was quietly murdered and Viserys was put on the throne instead.

4 hours ago, Aldarion said:

 

• Northern army, despite being defeated, manages to withdraw from battle in good order - something even professional armies often failed to do.

Actually, I'd say their defeat was pretty much a disaster. They had nearly 18,000 men, and the next time we learn their numbers, they're down to 10,000. That's nearly half their forces dead or missing in a retreat all the way back to the Neck.

Any invasion of Gondor by the people of Westeros would be disastrous. First off, the Red Mountains would still be there, albeit much thinner than before, so there'd still only be two ways into Gondor by land. Secondly, the terrain would have changed so radically that it would be completely new territory. Uncharted, unmapped, you name it. The people of Gondor would know it very well, however, and by Denethor's time, there's a hardened army of rangers who are better at stealth than most people in Westeros. Not to mention the knights of Gondor, their infantry, etc. Thirdly, they have well-established ports and a navy. Even though it's diminished by the time of Denethor, that's still better than what Dorne has. 

Gondor isn't going to be conquering any regions of Westeros any time soon, but they will absolutely be able to hold their own for at least a couple of generations. The rest of Westeros would be too busy trying to figure out how many people there are, how many castles, who these people are, what their infrastructure is, what the land looks like, etc. 

7 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

This just reminded me of the "Ned warged Ilyn Payne" theory  

I laughed when I first heard that theory, but it'd be even more hilarious if it was true. Here's Jaime, unintentionally confiding in the very man whom he still hates for judging him.

6 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Well, GRRM has said that all of Ned's children are wargs, so it's definitely possible that he was skin changing.

Do you think that Ned was also a warg without realising? Or any of his siblings for that matter? Otherwise how do we account for all his kids (and Jon) having the ability to warg?

Oh, and I guess we can also debate who would win if they fought each other.

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

"Strike! Now, while the castle sleeps." Renly looked back at Ser Boros again and dropped his voice to an urgent whisper. "We must get Joffrey away from his mother and take him in hand. Protector or no, the man who holds the king holds the kingdom. We should seize Myrcella and Tommen as well. Once we have her children, Cersei will not dare oppose us. The council will confirm you as Lord Protector and make Joffrey your ward."

 

To me, the parallels here reflects off of one of England's most infamous tyrants, Richard iii, also a bit of tyrant Cromwell because of the lord protector bit. Anyway, something along those lines is why Eddard turned the plan down, deceitful, dishonorable, disproportionately dislikable. He said as much to Petyr when pitched pretty much the same play. Political or not, it would have been morally bankrupt, to the outer world and to thy inner self,  but the real question is would it have been pragmatic?

“Cersei will not dare oppose us.” Uh, maybe? But Tywin will dare. Stannis dare, Balon dare and Euron dare. Oberyn, JonC, Mance, Dany, dare. The world is dark and full of straphangers. Obviously Ned didn't make every decision correctly, but I believe here he certainly did as in victory or defeat it would have destroyed his honor, but I also see a very slim chance of victory as he would have made himself public enemy number one of Westeros.

Agreed. Renly's plan was dumb. It would have antagonised everyone and painted Ned as a usurper. Ned's original plan might have worked if Sansa didn't betray him.