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Everything posted by Evolett

  1. Jon and Sam before Jon became LC Ned and Robert before Ned became Hand Daenerys and Missandei Sansa and Jeyne Poole Theon and Robb Shireen and Patchface Varys and Ilyrio The Sand Snakes amongst each other + Arriane Arriane and Garin
  2. He does see himself as the "grass that hides the snake." Sarella may simply be doing her own thing of course, with any important discoveries made at the Citadel being a bonus for Doran.... or not.
  3. This business of "taking eyes" is probably very important. The Weeper is one prominent member of the Freefolk who "takes eyes." He gouges out the eyes of his victims, also highlighted by the three members of the NW returned beheaded and without their eyes. Can't say I've figured it out. However, we have an interesting observation regarding Gregor Clegane: So, according to Gregor, four eyes see better than two and six better than four. Eyes are "passed on" to the next man. This to me alludes to Ser Gregor as a symbolic white walker who sees through the eyes of his many wights. I've already commented on Ser Gregor's transformation as a possible clue to the making of a white walker. Regarding the notion that the white walkers may embody the spirits of dreamers unable to fly ... The white walkers are "Walkers." The choice of name suggests they are earthbound. They do not or cannot "fly." "Flying" in Martinspeak means opening the third eye and being able to engage in the "higher" mysteries of warging, skinchanging, greenseeing. Notice the wordplay. In different ways, both greenseers and dragonriders are gifted with being able to "fly." But the white walkers are not. They are by no means skinchangers, imo. Perhaps they would like to be... to find release from their earthbound status, from their frozen hell. I find your idea of obsidian being a channeling resourse for spirits interesting. Do you have any further thoughts on how this might work? In any case, Ser Gregor as a possible clue to the origin or making of an Other reminds me of a mention in the World Book: So, some sources speculate that the giants were the greatest foes of the CotF and that the bones of a giant were found with obsidian arrowheads amidst the ribs. This could be hinting at the use of obsidian in the transformation of giants to Others .... remember also Old Nan's tales about the giants which may seem unconnected at face value but are probably important to deciphering the mystery. I'm also inclined to suspect the author of referencing God's creation of Eve from the ribs of Adam. The point here is creation through obsidian as you also suggest and as we saw on the show. Perhaps that scene in the show reflects the truth of the matter. Right after that quote in the World Book comes the story of Gendel and Gorne which has its origins in a conflict between the giants and the CotF. Personally, I suspect the CotF turned their adversaries, the giants, into tools to fight the FM.
  4. Hear hear! There is a visual parallel to this vision of Bran's IMO, that may tell us something about the significance of the vison itself. When Jon and the Freefolk arrive at Queen's Crown, they encounter an old man who is in the wrong place at the wrong time. This man had made himself a sort of a home in the partially crumbled building and was unfortunate enough to be present when the party from beyond the wall arrived. There was a fire in evidence. Jon was ordered to kill the old fellow but his hesitation prompted Ygritte to do the job for him. Ygritte may be a symbolic weirwood (Ygg - the demon-tree as named by the Ironborn). The scene takes place somewhere in "the Gift," a portion of land granted the NW for their sustainance. So if the parallel is valid, we have a man who ordered the killing, a symbolic weirwood, an old man and a designated territorial location. Judging by Bran's sequence of visions, the killing of the old man by a woman may well represent an occasion connected to the founding of Winterfell. On account of the parallel, my guess would be that the Ur-Stark, maybe Bran the Builder, stumbled upon this highly promising site, found a weak occupant and executed him to subsequently claim the land. Whether this was additionally meant as a sacrifice by the party involved at the time or not, cannot really be determined by the reader. It may have been, or not.
  5. Perhaps Sarella/Alleras is his trump card. The sand snake wriggling her way through the Citadel and who might well happen upon information important to Doran. I doubt she's there just to forge a chain.
  6. Hmm, two of Mance's "washerwomen" probably died in the attempt to liberate Jeyne and must have been identified afterwards. Both Jeyne and Theon are missing from Winterfell so it stands to reason that Ramsay would suspect Mance's and his women's involvement in their escape. Not too difficult figuring that out. The suspects would have been rounded up and interrogated - we know what Ramsay is like. Mance may not have talked but if Ramsay really flayed the remaining women, they may have revealed all they know. And I think they were aware of most of what was stated in the letter. I tend to think the so called pink letter is genuine. Ramsay assuming that Jeyne and Theon would make for the safety of the Wall to commit themselves into Jon's care is logical. From Ramsay's point of view, Jon is LC, Jeyne officially his half-sister and the assumption is that the Watch takes no part in the affairs of the realm, meaning the two refugees may well find refuge there. Ramsay challenges all that in his letter and we can expect him to confront Jon over the issue because Jon is the one person who will be able to identify the lie that is Jeyne. That Ramsay cages Mance and supplies him with a cloak made from the skins of the women also strikes me as genuine. We have ample proof of Ramsay's flaying practices and the extent to which he goes for sport and his own personal pleasure, how much more in a case like this. Mance would be guilty of collaboration with or without a glamour. I see little reason why the letter should not have been penned by Ramsay. There is also a possible parallel regarding the caging of Mance. Aemon the Dragonknight was caged and subsequently freed by Baelor the Blessed. In this case it's the "Bael" character that is caged and for all we know, he may be released by a "dragonknight."
  7. Good question. Never really thought about it and don't recall if we are given any information on the background of the High Septons in the current story. Baelor the Blessed named two commoners to the office. The current High Sparrow is bit of a mystery. Despite his asceticism, he could stem from a noble house for all we know. Definitely worth investigating!
  8. Wow, long post, and welcome to the forum! Reading theories on the nature of the Others and how things might have transpired in the past is always interesting. Thanks for your take on this mysterious aspect of the story. I'm neutral on some points you make, like some inferences and don't agree with some key points. The assumption that the white walkers are skinchangers who control their wights by this means, for example, is primarily based on further assumptions - that Night's King was a Stark and that because of the apparent parallel of baby sacrifices, Craster must be a Stark. Further that the Others accept his baby boys because of their alleged "Stark blood." I probably belong to a minority that has severe doubts about this scenario. Why?The white walkers and their wights share a very prominent feature: their strikingly blue star eyes. Why do they turn the eyes of their victims blue in undeath? A popular expletive in the 7K is "the Others take your eyes." What do they take them for? I think the eyes are the means by which the walkers channel magic to control the undead. It is a means of soul-binding similar to Melisandre's glamouring and soul-binding magic. Mel uses rubies, the Others use symbolic blue sapphires. Though I can see obsidian playing a role in the transformation of man to other, I lean towards the idea that they are the souls of dreamers who never learnt to fly - those dreamers Bran sees impaled on icy spikes in his waking dream. Those who never flew are those who never opened their third eye. They would be akin to Jojen, a dreamer with greensight but without the ability to skinchange or greesee. Symeon Star-Eyes may be a hint: he was blind and replaced his eyes with blue star-sapphires to be able to see. Most theories do not attempt to incorporate Old Nan's tales about the Others. Why did they hunt maidens through the forest or feed children to their dead servants? What of the ferocious giants she talks about who contrast the giants Jon meets beyond the Wall? Could Ser Gregor be a clue - a diabolical character who rapes, kills a mother and her baby and "takes" Oberyn's eyes? What of his transformation by Qyburn? I'm missing most of these elements in most theories. I can however envisage opposing factions within the community of the CotF at the heart of the drama, particularly prior to and during the Long Night. Essos and the Bloodstone Emperor: the latter and his role are definitely up for debate. He is said to have ushered in the Long Night suggesting his actions played a role in banishing the day. So unless the legends are totally mixed up I would not equate his killing his sister, the Amethyst Empress, with the Nissa Nissa legend. Rather, I think her demise was necessary because she embodied an endless long summer that needed to end, a summer that caused severe dehydration and desertification of Essos (there are a number of references to a long summer in the narrative). What I do like is the idea that Dawn or a Lightbringer sword might be "spent" after use and need recharging. Anyway, seeing as we've been fed mere bits and pieces regarding this issue, speculation is necessary if we want to make progress
  9. Yes, I can go with this, especially since I see Jon more in the role of a conciliator and negotiator than turning against humanity to lead the Others as some readers suspect. A possible scenario: with Gilly certain that the white walkers want and will come for their "brother," it's possible that baby Monster is the "chink" that will lead to constructive communication between humanity (or Jon specifically as the second "chink") and the Others.
  10. There's a difference between an established house changing a sigil and an individual taking over the sigil of another vanquished house. Neither Lann the Clever nor Orys Baratheon were members of a particular house while House Toland switched to the dragon biting its own tail as a sigil after successfully outwitting Aegon I, the dragon sigil essentially a mocking element. Gaven Greywolf was defeated by a King of Winter, thus at a time House Stark already existed. If Gaven was a very powerful skinchanger and difficult to defeat, I suppose it's possible the Starks took the running direwolf to show their disdain for the man and victory over him - similar to the example of House Toland. We don't know if House Stark existed prior to Bran the Builder or the founding of Winterfell. But of course being a son of Garth Greenhand, Brandon of the Bloody Blade may have followed in the footsteps of his half-siblings and founded House Brandon, taking a bloody blade as his sigil (since this presumably was his claim to fame). This is just speculation based on your hypothesis. I've always thought of the "-on" suffix as alluding to something being in place, being active, activated or switched "on." For instance, the name "Durran" suggests durability but symbolically the Durrandons only became the epitome of durability with the building of the 7th castle that withstood the storms sent by the angry gods. With the take over by the Barathe-ons, the castle is symbolically breached and once more ruled by a godly storm (theon = godly - alluding to Robert's godly image as a Horned Lord, Bara - alluding to the Bora winds - strong northerly winds). Bolt-on suggests a firmly shut door. Brand-on suggests a fire component, a brand which is active, a mark. Ned's brother Brandon and Bran are the two Brandons we know a bit more about. Brandon was a temperamental fellow, the wild wolf with wolf-blood. Bran expressed his rashness or "wildness" through climbing which Old Nan says comes from the wolf-blood inherited from an ancestor named Arya Flint. A temperamental rash nature suggests heat, we think of persons with this trait as "heated" or "fiery." This then suggests that characters named Brandon may have inherited the wolf-blood trait and that this trait is in fact associated with fire. Interestingly, Janos Slynt accuses Jon of having "the mark of the beast" on him. By beast he means a skinchanger but a brand is also a mark on the skin. And Jon is a symbolic Brand-on by way of the fire that burned his sword hand. Incidentally, Janos Slynt took a bloody spear as his device. There's definitely something going on there. Generally, regarding the Starks, I do see a change in CoA somewhere along the corridors of history as a possibility.
  11. Welcome to the forums. Looking forward to your insights
  12. A surprising and important discovery on the cruciferous motif: I've been toying with the idea that the "blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice" might be a reference to Gilly's baby, Monster, rather than to Jon, or perhaps to both. A chink in the wall would be a crack or breach. A chink in armor is a vulnerable spot or area, a potential weak spot that can mean the death of the wearer. So the flower which Dany later identifies as a rose could represent the crack or weak spot within the Wall. Gilly was named after the Gillyflower. It's a catchall name for several fragrant flowering species including carnations and wallflowers. The Gillyflower was also used in payment for so-called "peppercorn rent," a metaphor for a nominal fee, or small payment used to satisfy the terms of a legal contract usually pertaining to land. Till now, I've thought this to indicate that Craster's baby boys are given to the Others in payment for services rendered, perhaps in return for the land on which he lives or as part of the supposed pact. That Gilly is a "wallflower" also seems valid especially since she ends up at the Wall. What I've only just discovered is that Wallflowers are cruciferous plants belonging specifically to the cabbage family putting Gilly in line with the cross location symbolism, and of course being a mother and wet-nurse to Monster and baby Aemon, she is also a "neep entry or exit." It all fits. Gilly is no longer at the Wall but her baby is so perhaps the little one is indeed the "chink in the wall." On the other hand the blue winter roses are associated with Jon and with Bael characters. Bael "breached" the Wall, so did Mance Abel and so did Jon (Jon by climbing). The symbolism does suggest both gillyflower and blue winter rose characters can cross magical barriers in one way or another. And we note Bael and the Stark daughter hid in the underworld of the crypts while Lyanna resides in the crypts, a departure from tradition. I'm still undecided on whether the gillyflower = blue winter rose or is a variation thereof. Now for some speculation: there are 19 forts at the Wall, 19 women of the freefolk at CB, Craster had 19 wives, 19 obsidian arrowheads left of the cache Ghost found. What if it is the 19th wife or her baby that deactivates the Wall and opens the "door" for the Others?
  13. My personal theory pretty much revolves around this scenario. There are too many mentions of strange entities associated with the sea. Deep ones, selkies, merlings, squishers, mysterious invaders from the sea who attacked and wiped out land-dwellers etc. suggest a threat will emerge from the ocean, brought about by Euron, most likely. Some of Old Nan's tales about Others may be about these others, with tales and legends mixed-up and distorted over the course of time. The White Walkers do have their own specific name amongst these diffuse "others." The twist would be the importance of both Ice and Fire overcoming their differences to band together to eliminate a greater evil. The white walkers may have played a role in ridding Westeros of these invaders the last time round - for a fee. Humans defaulting on payments agreed to in the pact made by the Last Hero could be the cause of their wroth. Perhaps the "prince that was promised" was part of the deal. To me, despite the little we know about them, the white walkers have a "Pied Piper of Hamelin " feel about them and everything might depend on humans being able to convince them to pitch in once again.
  14. You're on to something here. I'm reminded of Mel taking down Orell's eagle but never really thought about her reason for taking the bird down. She must have sensed or "seen" Varamyr within the eagle. Being a shadowbinder she's a "soul specialist." We are told that one skinchanger can sense another but why wouldn't others versed in magic, expecially red priests or priestesses, be able to identify souls foreign to a creature or person? So yes, I suspect this has merit. Perhaps Moqorro's treatment of Victarion's arm, which is now crisp and blackend has marked him with fire to prevent further attacks. On the subject of Theon's POVs being a possible representation of the torment a person violated by a skinchanger feels, I discovered another bit of evidence directly referencing dogs in connection with skinchanging: Hodor's soul finds a safe haven deep within his psyche. A few paragraphs after this however, Bran in Hodor's form hauls Jojen from the depths of the canyon the children were exploring - an allusion to Bran being able to find a way to access that safe haven, I suspect. Perhaps this is the effect Moqorro's Valyrian song had. In fact, that the monkeys that had infested the ship took off abrubtly during the singing suggests this was the case (think of monkey demons). We probably do need another thread.
  15. I wonder if that's what the kraken stands for? Coming to think of it I think it is. 10 long arms like strings manipulating the puppets attached. The shadows come to dance.
  16. I have the feeling this is what Ramsay’s interaction with Theon is actually meant to illustrate. Ramsay does not skinchange Theon but the nutcase tactics he employs to force Theon to suppress, deny and relinquish his identity is comparable to the mental and emotional torture a person whose physical form has been usurped experiences. Like the authentic example provided by Bran taking control of Hodor’s body, Theon is symbolically trapped in a body he no longer has any control over. Physical torture and psycho-terror dominate his waking hours. And he has great difficulty adjusting to “freedom” when his body is symbolically “returned” in order to perform specified jobs. Amongst the various degrading experiences Theon is subjected to is his reduction to the status of a dog, complete with eating, sleeping and living with them. In the narrative, dogs are very much associated with torture, both physical and psychological. Consider the Cleganes (sigil= 3 dogs). The Hound is GRRM’s example of a classic tormented soul. Gregor not only inflicts pain and suffering on his victims, he becomes victim of the same after being poisoned by Oberyn’s spear. Think of all that screaming. Perhaps he has found a measure of peace in undeath. The parallels here also include a change in identity for all three “dogs.” Clegane becomes Robert Strong, the Hound becomes the Gravedigger, Theon a dog. These three “dogs” are veritable tortured souls. Recall also that dogs are particularly easy to skinchange because they are so close to humans. I’m pretty certain these three symbolic dogs tell us something about skinchanging – about both the victim and the perpetrator. There is hope for Theon however. He does remember his name, at least the last couple of chapters show him regaining a sense of himself. Names are very important to our identity which is why Theon must strive to overocme the Reek persona. A person who does not know or remember his name has an identity problem. Besides being simpleminded, Hodor does not recall his true name and is an easy victim for Bran. Quaithe urges Daenerys to remember who she is. Jon Snow often thinks of himself as a bastard with no name. Truth is he does not know his own true name, but has accepted and embraced his alias “Lord Snow,” rather like Hodor accepting Hodor. Very ominous. He’d better find out about R+L=J ASAP. So yes, I think we’ve sort of had that POV already. Perhaps we’ll have another actual POV as well but if so, I expect it to come through Euron’s arc. That said, we have a character at the Wall just begging to be skinchanged: Patchface. Lost half his wits, lost his true name, has knowledge of a great many important things that he only expresses in terms of “under the sea.” Anyone skinchanging Patchface might be able to tap into the fool’s wisdom . Maybe Bran will use him as a vehicle to influence what’s happening at Castle Black. Perhaps Bran will gain info on things long forgotten and unavailable to the Weirnet because they occurred in Essos, and the Arm of Dorne that connected the two continents is no longer there. Spiritually riding Patchface might just allow a skinchanger to hop-frog across the "stepstones" and take a peek at the past.
  17. I really like this too. The apples have a female feel to them. Perhaps GRRM is having fun with Rosey - rosy apples. Perhaps the second apple gives birth to twins, one "good apple" and one "rotton apple." If it's a metaphor then it would be referring to one corrupt "apple" amongst the three dragons/riders.
  18. Oh, but this approach spoils the fun and challenge of Interpretation. The prologue chapters in particular contain important clues, imo, and are meant to provide the reader with some background information to aspects of the story otherwise hidden. To the magical side of things, most likely. We may not always be right but it's worth having a go at it .
  19. The 13th LC was not deposed for sacrificing to the Others. That wasn't the issue. It was only after his fall they found out: No mention is made of the nature of those sacrifices. The reader assumes he sacrificed his babes.
  20. I sincerely hope Theon will be spared being skinchanged by Bran. This and other related possibilites were discussed here a couple of months ago:
  21. I don't think it matters how many castles the Ironborn controlled. Balon formerly simply declaring himself king of the Iron Islands was dangerous enough to warrent intervention - the Greyjoy Rebellion: A monarch can't afford to ignore such a move and Balon's recent "conquest," beginning with the fall of Winterfell through Theon was never addressed in King's Landing. Euron has inherited the title of King of the Iron Isles and the North and is the de facto leader of the North. They owe him allegiance and I'm certain he'll make that known sooner or later. Tywin put the issue on the back burner, all other lords have been too busy with war to earnestly consider the implications. I think the author set this up quite early on. This exchange takes place when Theon delivers Robb's message to Balon: No one cared about Balon but it's Euron they will have to deal with now and I bet he's not going to be a push-over. Would the FM accept plunder for killing a king? Not those stoney isles either, unless they have value unknown to us, a forgotten relic of ancient times. And a fossilized dragon egg? Illyrio procured three for Dany. I doubt they would be satisfied with one. But that bit about Euron tossing the dragon egg he claimed to possess into the sea that is the source of speculation as to whether he offered it in payment is probably a clue. I suspect Euron has hired the FM for further missions and that for their payment in total, they want Dany herself. Why accept a dragon egg when you can have the real thing with the power to hatch as many eggs as you can provide? The issue of payments and "promises" is an intriguing one and I believe it's central to the story and to what the White Walkers want. I think Westeros has defaulted on the pact made with the Others the last time round. Payments and promises were not being upheld and the last deadline has passed (the bleeding star). The storyline involving the FM and the Ironbank of Braavos are the most likely keys to unravelling the mystery.
  22. In view of the bitter historic rivalry between Bolton and Stark, I imagine that unlike the other vanquished northern houses, the Boltons never put aside aspirations to leadership of the North. A cunning man like Roose would make use of a half-decent opportunity. Embarking on a war under a boy lord-in-waiting whose father was incarcerated by a ruling party well known for its ruthlessness must have been a jackpot situation for Roose. I imagine he began thinking about how to use the unforeseen opportunity from there. I second this. It also gave Roose an opportunity to see how Ramsay would handle things. Not taking him down south was a calculated move as well because that way he would still have some control over affairs in the North. Ramsay taking over Winterfell couldn't have been planned beforehand. Roose was pretty nonchalant regarding Ramsay's deeds and behaviour because this probably suited him fine. Like Gregor Clegane was for Tywin, Ramsay was the perfect tool for taking care of the dirty stuff while Roose busied himself with the finer details of his coup without anyone noticing. Any atrocities committed by Ramsay are attributed to his bad blood and bastard nature. From the sound of him, I don't think Domeric would have been as suitable a partner in crime as Ramsay has been. Having his son legitimized meant being able to take over Winterfell and truely make it House Bolton of Winterfell. Being able to produce fArya to pacify the Northeners made it easier of course. That said, Ramsay's extreme ambition and poor long-term judgement might cause the whole endevour to backfire sooner or later.
  23. In view of the fact that Dany is a threat to the ruling powers' hold on the Iron Throne, a portion of Westeros would definitely be an appropriate price to pay. Sacrifice some regions to remain in control of the rest. Land as payment for services rendered is probably rare but not unheard of. The Tattered Prince wants Pentos as a reward for assisting Quentyn. When that fails, Ser Barristan promises Pentos if the Prince helps him release the Meereenese hostages. A bold move. How does Barristan think to conquer Pentos? What if Dany has no interest in honouring this debt upon her return? So what happens if a client cannot deliver on his side of a bargain such as this one? What Euron paid the FM is debatable but Balon was King of the Iron Isles and the North at the time of his death. Balon may have been viewed as more of a nuisance than anything else in King's Landing but he was King of a good third of Westeros so I imagine the price for his elimination was astronomical. Euron now holds that title. Would he care less about giving the Iron Islands and the North away? I find this thought intriguing. The man is open-handed with his riches which he gives away without batting an eyelid, all with ulterior motives in mind of course. A quote from Euron suggests the North holds no value for him. This is what he has to say at the kingsmoot: Euron doesn't care about the North. King's Landing might think otherwise but Euron is King of that region by right of conquest. And would not hesitate to offer it in payment for Balon's death, methinks. Would the FM accept the North? It's a good deal more than they have now. Why not? They've proven themselves a very resourceful people.
  24. Arya's poison kisses Arya returns with a bunch of purple and green flowers for Ned after exploring their surroundings while travelling through the Neck on the way to King's Landing. It turns out the purple flowers cause an itching skin rash and are called "poison kisses." Following Mycah's advice, she rubs her arms with mud to stop the itching. The scene could simply be forshadowing Arya's arc, that's easy enough to see. She will assist and learn how to prepare poisons from the waif and will employ poison on an assignment. I never really paid much attention to the passage but now the mud which acts as an antidote to the poison kisses appears relevent especially since they are traversing the territory of the so called mud men. An antidote may delay, relieve, prevent or counteract the effects of poison. The crannogmen are proficient in the manufacture and use of poison, the Neck itself an unwholesome deadly environment, but that the mud men are linked to a preventive force capable of counteracting or even curing an allegorical poison is a new thought. Purple is linked to the "strangler" poison and to Purple Harbour, the location of Arya's first assassination mission where she uses poison to dispatch her victim. Purple is used on various sigils with the Daynes standing out. We know Ned won the duel with Arthur Dayne with Howland Reed's help or intervention. Was Howland the "mud antidote" that prevented Dayne from symbolically poisoning Ned? What of Trisifer Mudd, the Hammer of Justice? Was the influx of the Andals a poisoning of Westeros that he tried to prevent? The Neck certainly contributed to keeping the North free of the Andals and their religion. Then of course there is the association between mud and justice. Melisandre attributes her resistance to Cressen's strangler-poisoned wine to the power of her god. That she saw what was coming in her flames and prepared for it by ingesting an antidote beforehand is more likely.
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