Evolett

At first glance, the name Eon could simply be a reference to Old Hunter's long rule as head of his house - 60 years or so, probably rivalled only by Walder Frey. Your find has me thinking however. If the author has planted a clue by associating House Hunter with time, what could the connection be? How how about this: in mythology and ancient tradition, the hunter is closely linked to the horned god. This is confirmed in the story through Robert B, a horned-lord archetype and a man who loved to hunt. The horned lord is of course intimately linked to time, to the seasonal cycle. In view of this, it's interesting that Eon is rumored to have been killed by his youngest son. This actually makes sense because horned lords are supposed to die at the end of a season. They aren't supposed to be living on for decades on end. In fact they have to die so the season can come to a close, thus making way for the lord's rebirth and resurrection that ushers in a new season. So, perhaps House Hunter + sigil offers clues to the quirky seasons. Further research also threw up another possibility: the "Arrow of Time," also known as "Time's Arrow." This is a scientific concept: As it happens, there are two novels titled "Time's Arrow." Both might be relevant, especially in view of the notion of a time-travelling Bran. The first is by Arthur C. Clarke, and involves time-travel: In this story, the scientist who goes back in time and ends up being trampled by the dinorsaur. The second novel put me in mind of Bran's series of visions which he experiences as going backwards in time: I mentioned Walder Frey earlier. Incidentally, a member of the Hunter family, Janyce Hunter, is wed to Edwyn Frey, the oldest son of Ser Ryman Frey. Their daughter Walda Frey (not Fat Walda) is now second in line to inherit the twins. This seems somehow significant. When you think of Walder Frey in terms of a fertility god/horned god (think also of Norse god Frey, god of fertility and prosperity), besides his Garth image, it's obvious he's been in power for far too long. Plenty of room for speculation

I'm not suggesting he'll end up as king, just that his lineage may be royal, perhaps way back, perhaps shedding a bit of light on House Payne. The parallels between Pod and Edric are quite striking. In whatever way, we're meant to see a connection between Payne and Dayne but I'm not sure Podrick is a red herring. It could also be the other way round. Edric has already served a resurrected man, a "true knight" who continued his set mission while also caring for the smallfolk. Thus Podrick's ultimate role could be similar - to serve a key player who will be resurrected in the future - Jon Snow, or someone else? Well, like a pod, Pod has already been "dispersed" and has travelled far and wide - abandonded by his mother, passed on to his cousin Cedric, attaching himself to a hedge knight, assigned to Tyrion and then following Brienne to end up in her service. So the name does suit him perfectly. The question is, where will the pod finally settle and grow? The suffix -pod also means foot, so maybe there is another layer of meaning there in relation to the Dunk/Egg, Brienne/Pod parallel. Podrick is so shy that he's said to "speak to his toes" instead of looking at the person talking to him. I'm reminded of Dunk's perplexion over Baelor dying to save Dunk's foot: Will the realm need Podrick even more than a prince's life? I recall the curious detail about Pod having a dog named Hero in his childhood. I recall a few things I've read/heard. Roughly: - diverging from the naming conventions of most authors who usually choose character names distinct from each other so as not to confuse the reader. GRRM keeps it realistic by having repeating names within families and beyond. - choosing names or wording that can be interpreted in different ways. - not being able to write about a character until he has decided on a name.

The close parallel between Dunk and Egg / Brienne and Pod makes me wonder whether Pod has royal roots, like Egg (Aegon). We know little about House Payne or the cadet branch from which Pod stems. The white, gold and purple colours of the Payne sigil were colours typically used by royalty in medieval times, perhaps a hint, while the coins may speak to a more affluent past. The name Podrick (or Irish Pádraic) derives from Latin Patricius, meaning "of the patrician class." The Patricians were originally nobles, a group of ruling class families in ancient Rome. For those who enjoy word play and etymology, the "rick" portion of a name means "ruler / king" (Proto-Germanic) - see also Edric Storm, Robert's natural son. We know GRRM choses his names with care and Podrick's name is unique in the series. It wouldn't surprise me if the history of House Payne turns out to be very interesting.

There’s plenty to unpack here, interesting ideas, some of which resonate with me and others which I have a different opinion on. The Faith’s present level of organization is what we might expect for the period the story is set in. Though I don’t recall any info on how holy men and women are ordained, there’s a hierarchy ranging from the High Septon to begging brothers, each fulfilling a distinct role. GRRM has not divulged much on the Most Devout but since they are responsible for electing the High Septon, we can assume they correspond to cardinals of the Catholic Church. As such, besides electing, their duties probably include counseling the High Septon, playing a part in governance of the church and perhaps acting as envoys when necessary. I could not find a mention of the Faith funding the building of septs throughout the realm. Affluent lords erect septs on their lands and premises and employ septons, while poorer communities make do with simple structures and have their religious needs catered to by wandering septons such as Meribald. In fact, this appears to have been the case from the very beginning and hints at a lack of stringent organisation at the time. The World Book makes mention of the “Three Sage Kings” of Highgarden in particular. They followed a policy of assimilation rather than resistance, building septs, funding the construction of motherhouses and septries all over the Reach as well as inviting Andal craftsmen to teach the art of blacksmithing. With their maxim of “war is bad for trade,” the Hightowers / Oldtown followed a similar strategy right up to the building of the Starry Sept so the Gardeners and Hightowers appear to have been on the same page in this regard. And importantly, the Hightower's tight relationship with the Faith meant the Gardeners probably just let it be, rather than contend with the Faith Militant as well. It's not so odd that the Andals took so long to reach Oldtown, or that the Starry Sept was built there, imo. Regarding the former, they spent centuries battling the first men, fighting for dominance over the FM and each other, acquiring lands etc. The sea-route to the west was originally blocked to them by the fleets of Oldtown and the Arbor: With the exception of the Faith Militant, I doubt the Andals were particularly organized at the time of their arrival in Westeros, nor did they have a spiritual leader who would commission and organize the building of a major sept anywhere. It’s evident that the Faith itself evolved further after the arrival of the Andals. While formerly two symbols appear to have been in use, the Seven-Pointed-Star took precedence over the double-bladed axe as the main symbol (in fact, the existence of two different symbols suggests the Andals may have arrived with differing religious beliefs – the schism that was sorted out somewhere along the line, so to speak). The hierarchy of the clergy was extended with the naming of the first High Septon, possibly also creating the position of Most Devout at the same time: So Septon Robeson was probably the first official leader of the Faith in Westeros invested with all the relevant power and duties (including enhancing the organization of religion). Perhaps the title of Most Devout was originally bestowed upon particularly fervent, important, or useful FM-converts to the Faith who with time then also acted as counselors and electors. We see converted FM-lords prioritizing the building of septs, not so the Andals themselves. Oldtown was already a large port city at the time, larger and more important than Gulltown, prospering on trade, with the Hightowers profiting from local and overseas commerce. And once converted, they proved their faith, building first a number of smaller septs and then the Starry Sept. I think the point is the Hightowers simply had the financial means to do this, recognized the advantages of being closely affiliated with Faith and consolidating their relationship with a clearly more powerful adversary. A thriving port city such as Oldtown would also have been the perfect location for a major sept and of course we can speculate on the parallel between the Starry Sept and branches of the Church of Starry Wisdom which are also located at port cities around the world. I agree. These aspects aren't well fleshed out. The purpose of the Faith? From what we can gather from his short bio, Hugor of the Hill was probably a religious leader as well as King of the Andals, but this circumstance does not seem to have been repeated during their history. Qarlon the Great’s ambition was to conquer and crown himself “King of the Andals,” but his endeavor was crushed by Valyria. Their arrival in Westeros did not lead to a unification of the continent under one ruler either, instead, the overlords carved out kingdoms for themselves. It took Aegon the Conqueror to unify the continent more or less into one nation or political unit. However, I think the Faith as a unifying religious principle is very important to the fight against the “big bad,” be that Euron, the Others or both. This is where my view differs from yours. IMO, the author has highlighted certain important aspects of the relationship between the Targs and the Faith strongly suggestive of forging cooperation between the two sides over the centuries. I think many of the examples you’ve put forward in support of possible heinous motives by a faction of the Faith actually point to the opposite: - Aegon I is crowned by and accepts the Faith. - Jaehaerys I and Septon Barth forge an unlikely but fruitful partnership and friendship. - After the disbanding of the Faith Militant, the Crown promises to defend and protect the Faith. - Faith agreed to accept justice from the Iron Throne instead of trying the faithful themselves. - The Doctrine of Exceptionalism, approved by the Faith, allows the Targs to continue their magical bloodline, a factor essential to the coming conflict. - The High Septon moves to the Great Sept of Balor in King’s Landing, close to the Iron Throne, the Targs, the seat of power. - The Faith turning a blind eye to the practices in Dorne is important to retaining Dorne within the alliance – remember “unbowed, unbent, unbroken ” - the Dornish would never give up their special traditions. Better to ignore the circumstances and keep them in the kingdom without a fight. - My guess is the North must be mainly “Faith free” to enable certain magics but even here we have the Manderlys representing the Faith and of course Ned built a sept right on the grounds of Winterfell for Catelyn, with a septon on premises as well as Septa Mordane as governess to the children. The children are also brought up in the Faith. Here we have a demonstration of integration. What role exactly the Faith will play is up for speculation. Fact is, the realm Aegon forged has fallen to pieces politically at the worst possible time. The Fot7 is the only overriding unifying principle much of the population can believe in and relate to, something to bind them together and this may even come to include some current non-believers. People will literally need to be “armoured in faith.” There's so much more to comment on. Perhaps I'll find time over the next few days.

Certainly something similar to MMD's ritual (only in part), especially since Mirri studied the arcane arts in Asshai by the Shadow and there are histories claming an ancient people from Asshai taught the Valyrians how to tame dragons. I think we are meant to connect these two bits of information. Miiri's study of the arcane arts in Asshai included shadowbinding. She specifically mentions learning from mages in Asshai by the Shadow, the same place where Melisandre trained to be a shadowbinder. As such, I suspect the ancients taught the Valyrians a form of shadowbinding as a means to "tame" dragons. There are a few possibilities as to how the original Valyrians went about it. I imagine they performed their initial rituals with fresh dragon eggs or perhaps even with hatchlings. A shadowbinder would have had to bind the soul of the sacrificed individual to the dragon. It could have involved an external binding process or else directing the deceased's soul into the dragon. Since Valyrians claim they are kin to their dragons, the sacrificed person would have had to be related to the family aiming to bond with and control the beast. In F&B it is speculated that the Cannibal's antagonism towards the Targaryen dragons was because he was of a different lineage. If dragon-bonding is family-specific, then lineage here implies the Cannibal was originally bonded to a different Valyrian family. With Mel requiring kingsblood to wake a dragon from stone, I wonder what her ritual would look like. Would she have burned Edric Storm and bound his shadow to the stone dragon to wake it? She doesn't reveal specifics. Old Nan's tale of "the thing in the night" provides us with an idea of what external shadowbinding may look like in practice: This is an external attachment of course and most likely the kind of shadowbinding that binds wights to the Others. It's also possible that the shades of Beric and Lady Stoneheart were bound to their corpses in a similar manner. With the dragons, the soul of the sacrificed individual is probably internalized, mediated by the maegi. There a hint at this at the beginning of Mirri's ritual to revive Drogo when she orders the "strength" of the horse to go into the man. This suggests she's capable of commanding and directing spirits/life force to enter another body. Notice she's singing here. That brings me to Mirri's singing while she's burning at the stake during Dany's ritual. She was well versed in the birthing songs of the Jogos Nhai. In fact, she was an expert midwife and mentions she's never lost a child: Now, Mirri was taught by the moonsingers. Moonsingers. And accroding to the legend of Qarth, dragons were "born" from the moon. So did MMD's song play a crucial role in the birth of Dany's dragons? Was she singing spells to promote birth? I think this is a necessary ingredient.

Actually, this Hog / pig-boy who is a "burial mound spirit" brings Borroq and his boar to mind, both now having taken an ancient tomb at CB as their abode. Borroq, a near perfect image of a Draugr. I don't recall all of the arguments you've put forward regarding the symbolic connections between Pate the Pig Boy and Jon Snow, but there might be some subtle parallels between Borroq and the Alchemist. The latter has now taken role of poor Pate and is now the official "hog-boy" wearing the face of the former dead one. One could argue that unlike the "unknowing" Jon and Pate, Borroq and the Alchemist are each masters of their own brand skinchanging. I've put forward the idea that Borroq aims to rip Ghost from Jon for the future purpose of a second life. In this scenario, Ghost is akin to the key coveted and acquired by the Alchemist. Ghost is indeed an important "key," the key to Jon's resurrection, most think but my guess is it goes further than that. I think Ghost is the key to knowledge Jon needs just as the key now in possession of the Alchemist will open the doors to books, glass candles, whatever knowledge the FM is looking for.

The context of the prior conversation in the prologue is important. They are talking about the dead wildlings, pronounced dead by Will but this is doubted by Waymar, to which Will replies ... Unless GRRM intended to cast doubt on former wet nurse Old Nan and her tales shortly before introducing her in the first chapter, I feel if there's a connection between the two passages, it is the mention of song / music. Many fans assume the birth of the dragons involved a transfer of souls, most likely the souls of Drogo, Rhaego and Mirri. Perhaps by linking the wetnurse / breastfeeding, singing/music and the dead, the author is hinting to the first-time reader that a resurrection takes place both in the prologue and at the end of the book.

Thirteen seems quite significant and GRRM definitely references the unlucky or negative aspect of the number: Night's King of course stands out as the legendary evil 13th LC of the NW who ruled for 13 years. Xaro who offers Dany thirteen galleys is of the mechant guild named the "Thirteen." The last hero and his companions numbered 13 in all. And many child characters such as Joffery, Daenerys, Sansa and Jojen begin the story at the age of thirteen; Jamie won a tourney melee at the age of thirteen. My guess is there's a connection between all these instances that if deciphered, may inform on the last hero or NK.

Goodness, what have you dug up? I probably have to read over that thread to refresh my memory

Well, lemons do find their way up North. From Jon we know Mormont had lemon juice in his beer every day. Not whenever lemons available, but everyday. Considering that some inns down south can't get hold of the fruit, that suggests a good supply finding its way to the NW, perhaps by way of Eastwatch. In any case, since according to Sansa, the glass gardens are always as warm as "the hottest day of summer", I can imagine lemons growing there as well. The tropical greenhouse environment would allow it. We learn the garden also has unspecified trees: Maybe also a lemon tree? There's no mention of how large the gardens are but the mention of trees, plural suggests a sizable area. Perhaps different kinds of fruit trees. They wouldn't carry fruit throughout the year, which would explain the intermittent availability Sansa remembers.

It's difficult to approach this without considering the associated symbolism. I'll sum up a number of relevant symbols: - shit for honour (someone who has shit for honour is dishonourable) - shit turns to gold (shitting gold, shit has great value) - gold and whores (buried trreasure) buried beneath a privy/chamber pot - whores as secret treasure - golden hands - the difference between latrines, privys and chamber pots - perhaps also significant: lavatory stems from lavare meaning "to wash." A lavatory is a washroom for washing and washerwoman is a polite way of saying "whore." The difference between latrines, privys and chamber pots stood out to me recently. Latrines we see in the story are usually public affairs such as the laterine ditches dug for the use of camped armies. Contrasting this are privys and chamber pots, both private affairs. The privy is a fixed installation leading to drains/sewers, while the chamber pot is mobile and must be emptied to prevent it from overflowing. In relation to Jamie having shit for honour and the spot where he was knighted transformed into a latrine at Harrenhal, this could merely be symbolic of the public perception of his dishonourable character - the public latrine symbolizing the dishonourable act of kingslaying. It's public knowledge, no secret. His once secret affair with Cersei is no longer a secret either. When Tyrion escapes to the Second Sons, he's given some advice that supports this view: This sets up an interesting connection between the toilet motif and eyes / seeing. Presumably latrines are not suited to clandestine activities, neither would one hide anything valuable there, but a privy or a chamber pot could serve these purposes as we see with Rugen's gold coin hidden beneath a chamber pot and the buried treasure /whores beneath a privy entrance. The following passage from the Whitewalls Tourney combines all three - the dragon's egg as a valuable object, the privy and seeing + the dwarf: So, a potential greenseeing reference here. Additionally, this seems to circle back to Tyrion and Penny who are a little troupe of comic dwarfs and by extension to Tysha, worth lots of silver and a gold coin and origin of the question "where do whores go"? Golden hands As a side note, this image of being 'bound to a tree yet still feared'. Jamie's stinking, rotting hand as a representation of his soiled knightly honour is an important clue methinks. Jamie's stinking hand is replaced by a gold hand (or turns to gold), a kind of parallel to Tywin's shit turning into gold. What happens when "soiled honour" turns into gold? Do golden hands become "stranglers?" (Tyrion strangling Shae with a necklace of golden hands). Jamie bound to a tree while wearing his stinking hand may tie into the "seeing latrine eyes" and Bloodraven /greenseeing reference in connection with the privy shaft above. Perhaps hands are generally part of the puzzle. The gold coin beneath the chamber pot in Rugen/Varys quarters is an old Gardener coin depicting a hand. Note here too we have an "all seeing" motif in the form of the spymaster Varys. Cersei wanted Jamie to take the position of Hand. Tywin, with all his golden Lannister symbolism was a "golden Hand," Jon Arryn was Hand to Robert. It was he who negotiated Robert's marriage to Cersei and advised on Jamie staying in the Kingsguard. So he basically facilitated Lannister attachment to the throne. Secret Treasure How all this relates to the John/Jon toilet motif I can't say. What seems most relevant to me is the idea that privys can contain or conceal buried treasure/secret treasure. So far we've seen gold/shit, a golden coin depicting a hand, whores and a dragon egg. Jon had hardly any gold currency to spare so he definitely doesn't shit gold but he's found buried treasure, the obsidian cache. He has a symbolic toilet in the form of Edd at his disposal though, as well as a whore (Satin). Jeyne who spent time in LF's brothels and who has been warned by Theon that she'll be labled a whore if she does not go on being Arya, is on her way to Castle Black. Are Satin and Jeyne "hidden treasures"? The NW will soon be short of food/grain (the Gardner coin). He will come into contact with Dany /ride a dragon at some point. Having been born on a "midden heap," Gilly's baby could be relevant (in the German version, Gilly's name translates to "Goldie"). Jon's associated with two greenseers, if that's part of it. Perhaps these are all ingredients he must collect to accomplish his mission. Contemplating this list reminds me of Littlefinger. Perhaps the link between the "jon" motif and Jon Arryn isn't Jon Arryn himself. Maybe its the Lord Protector of the Vale and master of the Moon Door "outhouse" that's significant, now held by Littlefinger. He doesn't shit gold, he breeds it. He has several brothels with hundreds of whores at his disposal. Sansa is his "buried treasure." He has amassed grain (the Gardner coin symbol). Sweetrobin may be the magical greenseer element. He has everything in abundance, except for a dragon. To conclude, there may be a not so obvious cyvasse game going on between LF and Jon, both still in the process of setting up their pieces for the near future.

Fair question. I got a bit ahead of myself there. But check out this post on my blog if you're interested. It's about Catelyn's contribution to the powers her children have.

Agreed, though I have trouble placing her as a "lethal weapon" because she hasn't really been involved in any important deaths so far. In fact she lost out to Stannis and his "tree warriors." I've been wondering whether her "fire is spent," signified by her name, Asha / ashes. Despite her capabilities, she may not be much of a "weapon." She does birth a "dirk," a knife that's been involved in at least one important killing - Craster. Just recalled something significant Asha said that relates to the deadly sun/moon imagery in my previous post: Asha is in the role of the sun here. Promising a kiss for every kill alludes to requiring a sacrifice before she's willing to engage in that "kiss" or "bumping" into the moon.

This is really great , thank you! Upon further contemplation, Sansa being adjacent to these deaths reminds me very much of the legend of Qarth. In the tale, the moon wanders too close to the sun, breaking apart from the sun's heat to release dragons. Being adjacent to the deaths occurring around her, Sansa is in the role of the sun. In several instances the victims have distinct moon-associations as well. - First there are the Vale victims. Ser Hugh wears a cloak patterned with cresent moons that turn red with his blood: - Lysa is the one most poignantly liked to the "cracking moon" since she literally falls from a height after being thrown out the Moon Door. - Mycah may also fit the breaking moon symbolism. His body was literally cut into pieces. - Dontos may also be a "moon character." After being made a fool by Sansa, he's sobered by his "near brush" with death and gets to sleep with Moon Boy. - I've never thought of Joff as a moon figure but perhaps he is. He does give Sansa moonstone jewelry. Many associate Sansa with the moonstones but maybe the point is they come from Joff because he's the moon character. Of note in this sun - moon symbolism is that Sansa is "kissed by fire" and that Joff demands that Sansa kiss his sword (to power it up?) The scene where Lady Olena questions Sansa on Joff's character adds to the image of Sansa as an egg/ moon-cracking figure, complete with symbolic "dragons" escaping from the egg. This scene directly references the legend of Qarth imo: Note Butterbumps appears to be a sun-figure (yellow butter as big as three "moons,") capable of "bumping." I rather think he's a symbol of summer fertility (green and gold motley, the coxcomb an allusion to a horned lord). He doesn't crack the egg himself but lays it in directly in front of sun-Sansa for this purpose, emphasizing her role in the breaking of moon-eggs. House Martell also has a prominent sun-sigil and the sand-snakes are also included in the list of lethal ladies. I'm reminded of the writings of Daeron the Young Dragon: We have two weapons, the sun and the spear. House Stark is linked to "Sunspear" through Arya naming her direwolf after Nymeria, herself the "sun" component of the sigil (Rhoynish sun). So the sun and spear here could also be akin to Sansa (sun) and Arya (spear / needle). And of these two, the sun is the more deadly. How interesting! So how would this relate to our lethal lady weapons in the OP? I'm thinking Garth's red hot iron rod relates to the fiery sun whose touch or "kiss" destroys. I say relate because the hot iron rod is a tool rendered lethal by its exposure to fire, rather than being the actual source of that heat. In analogy, the sun enables additional weapons to deadly effect and perhaps for specific purposes such as, in this case, "destroying" men. Agreed, though I have trouble placing her as a "lethal weapon" because she hasn't really been involved in any important deaths so far. In fact she lost out to Stannis and his "tree warriors." I've been wondering whether her "fire is spent," signified by her name, Asha / ashes. Despite her capabilities, she may not be much of a "weapon." She does birth a "dirk," a knife that's been involved in at least one important killing - Craster.

Actually, I think the combination of the stewards Edd and Satin discloses that Jon is both "stinky" and "fragrant" and that this is super relevant to his role in the end game. There are more clues. Arya who along with Jon is most like Ned gets a direct "stinky-sweet" reference for instance.

This is a catalog of observations I find quite intriguing and have a few thoughts on. Perhaps we can figure out what’s going on. GRRM has given us two pairs of weapons, both female pairs, one pair expressly labeled as “lethal ladies.” The other pair is mentioned numerous times and those blades are no less lethal. We also have one character, Val, whom Jon thinks of as being “lethal” but she isn’t the only lethal actual woman in the books. There are quite a few and some, like Garth’s “lethal ladies,” come in pairs as well. Also of note is the association of these lethal ladies with “wantons” or otherwise what would be regarded as promiscuous behaviour in-world. A side note: wanton can also refer to willfulness and is used in connection with brutality or cruelty but also exuberance. So, let’s take a look at some concrete examples as well as cases that I think fit the motif of the “lethal wanton” Davos introduces us to the idea of lethal ladies in the Wolf’s Den when he thinks of Garth’s two weapons as such: The weapons in question are “The Whore” and “Lady Lu:” Two seriously wicked weapons. Given a choice, I’d go for Lady Lu. This is obviously an executioner’s weapon with a nice sharp edge that can make a clean end. The same cannot be said of “The Whore.” We also have our first “wanton” association here – the name and the fondling. A red-hot poker on your cock? A first interpretation would be that “the Whore” destroys manhood. Keep that in mind for later. Daario’s “lethal ladies” his “gleaming gold wantons” Next pair up are the two blades Daario Naharis carries. Daenerys thinks of them as “wantons.” I had not realized just how often they are described in her chapters. They must have symbolic importance: Daario kills his two co-captains with these blades, takes over the Stormcrows and defects from the Yunkish side to support Daenerys’ cause. The following clues are worth noting: He swears allegiance to Dany with the Dothraki arakh. The only other mention of a Myrish stiletto is the moustache of Jared Frey: Like Lady Lu and the Whore, these weapons differ from each other. One is a curved Dothraki arakh, the other a thin Myrish stiletto. My guess is the arakh is symbolic of oathkeeping and honour (swearing allegiance) while the stiletto represents treachery and falsehood (Jared Frey’s stiletto mustache). Before Daario takes his place as a hostage, he places his blades in Dany’s care because he does not want them to “cause mischief amongst the Yunkai”. Does this mean they are now Dany’s to use as she sees fit? And what could that mean storywise? In another scene, Dany becomes aroused and wants to be his wanton after observing him caressing his gleaming women: Here, Dany associates herself with the blades. She desires him and wants to be his “wanton,” knowing very well that he’s dangerous. Does Dany represent one of these blades? If so, which one? With her dragons, Dany can certainly be considered a “lethal lady.” And she is already rumored to be monstrous and to have a voracious sexual appetite (taking a new lover every night – wanton - ) even if this is untrue. It's possible one of these “golden wantons” represents Cersei. She is “golden” and otherwise fits the bill. Perhaps we can assign the Myrish stiletto to her. Alternatively, the dangerous twin blades could be telling us something about Nissa Nissa and the forging of Lightbringer. There might be some wordplay going on with “wanton” and “want to.” Daario makes her want to be his wanton, in other words she is willing, just like Nissa Nissa was willing, the twin female blades a nod at the double name - Nissa Nissa. Where would Dany escape to? Into a sword, to become a lethal lady-weapon? By all means add your thoughts to the interpretation of these pairs. Let’s move on to some other lethal lady pairs, sisters, in this case, and see if they conform to the lethal/wanton/weapon format. Catelyn / Stoneheart and Lysa. Littlefinger’s claims of having taken Catelyn’s virginity links her to the promiscuous / wanton motif. Lysa did give her maidenhead to LF. The sisters both fall in the “lethal” category – Lysa murders her husband and Stoneheart displays “wanton brutality” in her vengeance. Sansa and Arya Arya is a lethal lady-weapon, no discussion here. As of the Mercy chapter and her seduction of Raff, she also fulfils the “wanton” requirement. Sansa’s connection to the lethal are the “purple serpents,” the Strangler crystals that killed Joffery. She did not kill him outright, but she was the “vehicle” for the poison. After witnessing LF kissing Sansa, Lysa accuses both Catelyn and Sansa of being “wantons.” There are other lethal ladies that operate “alone” without an obvious sister partner. Brienne, Cersei, Val, Shae, Pretty Maris, the Sand Snakes. Perhaps the paired female weapons and sisters above show us that there are two different types of weaponized lethal lady, possibly also antagonistic, at odds with each other and that there is a pattern that when deciphered, can be applied to separate individuals. Patterns – e.g. Red hot cold iron Consider “the Whore,” Garth’s hot rod of cold iron that he would touch to Davos’ cock for instance. This one appears to hint at destroying manhood, emasculation, or a man’s masculinity in the psychological sense, bringing ruin, shame and even death upon him, for instance. I would add cuckolding (passing off illegitimate children as heirs) and turning men into fools to this list. Cersei, Shae, Brienne, Lynesse Hightower, Val and Night’s Queen fall into this category. I trust you see the association and will not go into detail here unless someone desires an explanation. Regarding emasculation – actual gelding of men – we have one example explicitly linked to a mysterious goddess: So, the Unsullied offer their manhoods to an unnamed goddess who may or may not be one of the gods of Ghis, reminding us of Varys whose male parts were also burned upon an altar. Clearly, there is some goddess or supernatural female entity out there that demands sacrifice in the form of masculinity. It’s clear this a warlike goddess and a “Mother of Hosts,” which I find quite intriguing, suggesting an association with the “hosts of the slain” led by the Others against humanity. Another possible pattern is that of premeditated action versus being used as a pawn, i.e. while one set of weaponized lady acts independently by choosing her own victims – premeditated - the other is used as a pawn. Arya / Sansa and Lysa / Stoneheart provide examples here. Questions What do you think? What other patterns do you see upon contemplating some of the lethal ladies out there? Are there other instances of opposing pair-formation, for instance Cersei/Margaery or Cersei/Olena? How does this relate to the theme of ice and fire and what does it mean that Garth and Daario wield these weaponized ladies?

I must admit to not having thought much about peas (or to keep inline with GRRM - pease), but now you mention it, Podrick seems the perfect character to have a pea association or to be spooning out heaps of peas. Peas do come in pods. The idiom "as alike as two peas" also comes to mind - another association with Lannisters, i.e. Cersei and Jamie. Heavy fog is also a "pea souper" or is said to be as "thick as pea soup." Ser Wynton Stout, a brother of the NW is said to have almost drowned in a bowl of pea soup. Pease and peace is another possiblity. Tyrion telling Sansa that pease are not her province may indicate that we may see a more ruthless Sansa in future. Dolorous Edd / Odorous Edd Tollet / Toilet is a staple but have we had Dolorous / Odorous? Odorous compliments Toilet quite beautifully. Odorous is usually used to indicate an unpleasant smell. Of note: first Edd and later Satin serve as Jon's stewards. This means Jon has both a "stinky steward" (Edd) and a "fragrant steward" in Satin (Satin combs perfume into his beard and was brought up as a whore in Oldtown. Such boys also known as "perfumed boys").

Earlier we discussed curtain walls, curtains, and drapes as representing wards. I personally think the "curtain of light" separating the Land of Winter from the rest is a magical ward and that Patchface's "gowns of silver seaweed" may be symbolic wards as well. They are gowns - part of a woman's wardrobe. We also noted Jon's use of the flaming drapes in Mormont's chambers to ward off and kill off wighted Other - another example of "a curtain of light." Anyway, it occurred to me that the tokar could be another example of such drapes or curtains: The tokar is GRRM's version of a Roman toga, nothing but a sheet, quite similar to drapes or curtains. There are two examples of the dragons setting tokar's on fire, the first instance involving the Yunkish envoy who tries to buy off Dany with gold: In the second instance, Viserion sets Reznak's tokar on fire: Perhaps these burning tokars parallel the burning drapes in Mormont's chambers. Grazdan was an enemy and because of Quaithe's warnings, Daenerys was very suspicious of Reznak whom she thought might be the "perfumed seneshal." Would setting a tokar ablaze be akin to activating a "curtain of light" or a ward (the tokar being part of a person's wardrobe)? It's interesting that the tokars are lit by dragons and Jon of course is a secret dragon.

A ford is a crossing, so ... The silver fish in the heron's mouth is a possible reference to Catelyn (Tully trout) being thwarted in her attempts to cross at the Twins? Herons are frequently found near rivers, lakes, and wetlands. They are known for their patience and stillness while hunting prey, including fish. I suspect by marrying Joyeuse, Walder Frey finally gains the ability to "catch fish," i.e. symbolic fish and mermaid characters. We know Walder has had 8 wives from 8 different houses and has sired a huge family. His descendants have married into further houses as well. Taken altogether, House Frey has networked itself into numerous southern houses through marriage, even House Lannister, but House Tully eluded him for decades because Hoster wasn't having any of it. His bitterness over this issue was apparent when Catelyn approached him about crossing the Twins and by the end of the negotiations Walder Frey had secured two marriages to two Starks with Tully blood as well as placed two Frey wards directly in Catelyn's care and one Frey boy as a squire to Robb. That was a start. When Robb renegs on the marriage deal, Walder gains the prize fish he probably wanted all along - Edmure: Edmure is liiterally a "fish" caught and chained. Walder not only catches trout. After the Red Wedding, betrothals between Freys and the merman Manderlys are secured, though Wyman thrawts this. Lord Frey probably wanted to marry into House Tully for politcal reasons. He is an ambitious man. Perhaps he had set his sights on one day elevating his house to the Status of Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Indeed this is the prize Emmon Frey thinks he has secured by gaining Riverrun, only to be disabused of this notion. But I think there's an underlying magical aspect to this business of catching fish too, one we have not fully figured out. Joyeuse is a bit of a no-name character and in the narrative, we find some of these no-names who are able to catch fish with bare hands attached to important characters: Men of the wolfswood are also practiced at catching fish: Wolves in general are good at "fishing:" Brandon, then Ned and... Very early foreshadowing of Catelyn being fished out of the river by Nymeria. A very young Drogon is also adept at spearing down flying fish above the sea with his flame. Patchface also offers clues to fish that link to marriage and red hair and thus to our Tully fish: Patchface always reacts directly to people or conversations in his vicinity. In this case the betrothed fishes are Gerrick Kingsblood's three red-haired daughters who are to marry Selyse's knights: Patchface has a lot to say about merwives and mermen, of course. Last but not least, Jon Snow has a lot of fishy business going on as well, specifically that his mother was a fishwife: Or that his mother was a fisherman's daughter. We can add Wylla, the wet-nurse who Ned Dayne asserts is Jon's mother to the mix. Her namesake, Wylla Manderly, is a symbolic mermaid. In the ancient past, the Grey King is said to have taught men how to fish. He also married a mermaid who undoubtedly wove those tapestries of silver seaweed hanging in his hall. The fisherfolk believe Patchface was revived by a mermaid who taught him to breathe in exchange for his seed and after this return from "under the sea," Patchface is gifted with visions. There's undoubtedly something magical about these "mermaids" and "fish." I'm 100% convinced that Bran's greenseeing powers come from his Tully inheritance but to actively use this power in conjuction with the weirwood, the Stark wolf-blood was necessary, the basis for warging and the mingling of spirits (another version of a wolf with a fish in its mouth). So how would that relate to a heron with a fish in its mouth or Joyeuse Erenford? As @Seams has noted above, a ford is a crossing. In some Native American cultures, the heron is seen as a messenger between the human world and the spirit world. It is believed to have a connection to the supernatural and may serve as a spiritual guide. So perhaps besides catching fish (and in parallel to the wolf pulling Catelyn out of the river - wolf with a fish in its mouth), Joyeuse symbolically facilitates Catelyn's transition from the underworld back to living. "Joy" or laughter can often be sinister in aSoiaF. The Tower of Joy certainly wasn't a joyous place,the "laughing tree" led to a series of monstrous events as well as war. Littlefinger of the mocking bird fame brings disaster to so many. Joyeuse herself does not radiate happiness. She is pale, frail and timid.

Maybe. Then we would have a physical breaking (ram) and a magical breaking (weirwood branches) of its wards, both attacks coming from outside, the enemy side. IIRC, the wildlings are required to burn those branches to enter, those who refuse cannot cross south. Mag originally starts of as an enemy, tearing off the outer door to the tunnel and then wrenching apart the bars and chains of the iron gate. He then gets stuck in the tunnel, effectively blocking passage from outside and inside the tunnel. As long as he's stuck there nobody can pass. I see a "hold the door" moment here. Donal Noye then "forges" his sword in Mag's throat. Perhaps the forging turns Mag into an effective combination of a physical and magical ward. In the case of Meereen, the phallic ram does get through. I think the Bloody Gate at the Eyrie potentially offers more insights if we can bring the symbolism together. The "Bloody Gate" can allude to a loss off virginity, a brutal rape, sexual activity, especially if we think of "Gatehouse Ami" and similar comparisons between female parts and gates / portcullis. In the background we have the "Giant's Lance" standing guard. The previous Knight of the Gate, commander of the Bloody Gate was Brynden Tully, the Blackfish. I believe the name Tully is wordplay on the fine netted fabric "tulle" and this in turn symbolizes a magical ward. I posted a more detailed interpretation upthread. Brynden resigns as Knight of the Gate to aid House Tully and Ser Donnel Waynwood becomes his successor. Ser Donnel is the second son of Lady Anya Waynwood, Lady of Ironoaks. At this point I can't help thinking of Dunk: And Dunk also falls into the giant category, is "thick as a castle Wall" and "a knight of the Seven Kingdoms." By merging with Donal Noye, I think Mag becomes a symbolic "Wall Knight," or Knight of the Gate. Maybe it does, though I cannot think of what that might mean right now. Arya becomes a parallel to Danny Flint when Yoren cuts off her hair to disguise her as a boy and recruit of the Night's Watch. As such, there is potential foreshadowing for Jeyne Poole's fate at the Wall: Yoren punishes Arya after she beats up Hotpie. He takes her to the woods, backs her up against a tree, asks her to take down her breeches and beats her with a stick. She has blood running down her thighs afterwards. She can't ride for days because of the pain. There's a lot of rape imagery here. Sewers and Wards I think sewers represent magical wards. Again, I point to my previous post on weaving and warding. Melisandre relates weaving light to form a glamour to weaving with thread: Sewers would weave or sew with thread but how can we determine if sewers weave magical wards or that sewers represent wards? I think the answer to this is the smell, the stink that is so offputting as to drive one away. In the Meereen example, Jorah and co. enter the city by stealth, "breaching" the Wall through the sewers. Mouths can be magical entrances and exits, we've seen. Iron keeps spirits locked up - it has a warding function, but this iron is rusted, suggesting it's no more than a weak ward. Lastly Dany requires men with no sense of smell. Men who successfully ignore the smell and filth of the sewers can cross the "ward." The bloody fools are probably important as well so let's take a look at Tyrion. Tyrion engages in sewing his own clothes in a motley pattern on the Shy Maid. He's also a symbolic fool character. He's also connected to sewers because he cleans up the drains of Casterly Rock. As a symbolic warded "sewer" he escapes both drowning and grey scale, though Jon Con catches the disease. Cleaning up the drains of Casterly Rock is the first official task given to him by Tywin. By seeing to the unblocking of the sewers, Tyrion symbolically allows the magic to flow again, restoring the ward. And like Dany's brave fools, Tyrion symbolically has no sense of smell - he has no nose. He's a sewer that can overcome "sewers" / wards. This would also make some sense of the ward Theon turning into Reek and why Dany must beware of the "perfumed seneschall" or "stinky steward."

Hi Wizz, hope you're doing well too To be honest, I don't think we're really in the position to determine whether groove or single weirwood patterns were the norm back in the days of the FM or the time period during which the Wall was built. What we see in Westeros are the pitiful remnants left by the devastation caused by both sets of immigrants. When Jon first visits the groove of nine trees beyond the Wall, he thinks this is unheard of because there are no such grooves even in the north at this point in time. Yet as proven by the God's Eye, High Heart and most likely the 44 stumps on the Iron Islands, we know the trees once grew in massive grooves. The single trees we see in Godswoods around the continent may have been single but some could also be the sole survivors of once magnificent grooves. I would argue that hollow hill terrain actually encourgages groove formation because of the relatively thin upper soil coverage on account of the caves below. The trees would have to network in order to gain maximum nutrient advantage. Whatever the case, it still makes sense to have weirwoods incorporated into the Wall and perhaps even sacrifice whole grooves if they serve as an anchor for shielding magic attributed to the Wall. Agreed, especially since we have Thoros with his flaming sword in the role of Azor Ahai here. There's another wall-breach we can consider: the taking of Meereen. Ser Jorah is in the front line here as well, along with Strong Belwas and Ser Barristan, a former member of the Kingsguard, whom you propose have special wall crossing ability. In this case the party breaches the wall by stealth, through the sewers. The slaves they release from the fighting pits then join in the frey. But this is only part of the effort to penetrate the walls. A huge wooden ram fashioned from the mast of Groleo's ship and named "Joso's Cock," is the instrument that takes down Meereen's gate. So, this might offer some evidence for the involvement of trees in the breaking of the Wall. It's interesting that the ship Joso's Prank (a symbolic fool?) becomes a dragon and then a raping phallus. Don't have much to say on the symbolism of that sequence but the "rape" of the gate stands out to me. In relation to the Wall and the horror stories of the Nightfort, it reminds me of the rape of brave Danny Flint (the many gang-rapes we see not withstanding - Tysha, Lollys etc.) I suspect we'll see some sort of sexual magic other than the sex involved in Mel's creation of shadow babies. The NW vow forbids taking wives and fathering children but many brothers visit Mole's Town for buried treasure - they have their sex outside of CB itself. Might a gang-rape at the Wall impeach its defences? Besides breaking the vow on location and the act itself not carried out with intent to weaken the Wall, an effect is possible. Sexual energy is considered potent and powerful. In magical practices, it's believed that this energy can be harnessed, focused, and channeled to achieve specific intentions. Brave Danny Flint's ploy to join the NW is something that Arya would do, if she put her mind to it. Jon Snow did not trust the brothers in respect of the two wilding girls who had disguised themselves as boys. Jeyne Poole, supposedly Arya, is on her way to Castle Black. Jon Snow will not be able to protect her. I can see those brothers who support Bowen Marsh adding insult to injury by mishandling and raping Jon's "sister." Jeyne's nose going black with frostbite could be the clue linking her to Tyrion's lost nose and to Tysha.

@Sandy Clegg And... Casterly Rock itself was discovered by shepherds who slew the lions within that hunted their village sheep. sheep, Gold of Casterly Rock - Golden Fleece? The Kingsblood in the quote above could also be the kingsblood acquired through Aegon's conquest. Though not a Valyrian tradition, the Targs do then initiate kingship, joining the lines of kings in Westeros. They become the king of kings. It wouldn't surprise me if Cheese is a hidden gold reference. Ilyrio Mopatis is the "Cheesemonger," a merchant very rich in gold. He sports a gold forked beard and has yellow hair. His fingers are covered in various jewels. To me he's always sounded like a descendant of the Golden Empire of the Dawn / Yi Ti.

Just a thought. All this goes back a very long way into the ancient past (LN, age of the Wall, ancient ancestors of varying lineage (blood). So if iron is a representation of a type of blood seal, then gold would fall into the same category. And we do have golden blood: the golden blood of Old Valyria. It's hard to say if kingsblood, golden blood of old Valyria and blood of the dragon are one and the same. I tend to think they represent three separate lineages that came together to form the Targaryen lineage. Recall the Valyrians had no kings, their roots are older than Valyria itself, supposedly having been shepherds previously.

Yes indeed. What's more, Asha takes Sybelle Locke, Robert Glover's wife, back to the Iron Islands as a hostage. And check out the symmetry with Walgrave's chest: the broken lock, the lock of hair and the iron key .. lol. So perhaps the lock is also a female aspect with the key being male? (Lock and Key - female-male symbolism). This also brings to mind Theon again: Theon later keeps thinking of Kyra and the keys. The whole thing was a ploy by Ramsay, who probably gave Kyra the keys to the gate, another hint at his invovement with the warding symbolism. I would add that the name Bolton alludes to a bolted entrance - bolted up, with the "bolt on." ETA - forgot to mention the gloves - gauntlet in Walgrave's chest and Sybelle Locke married to a Glover.

The sigil of House Locke sounds like another good target for investigation. The House name Locke and the sigil depicting two bronze keys. IIRC, Rickard Stark's (father of Ned) mother was a Locke.