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elipride

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Everything posted by elipride

  1. elipride

    Is x character a psychopath?

    I agree with that. After spending so much time feeling like a weak victim and working as basically a slave, I don't see why she would ever accept being married off to some stranger who would probably consider her his property instead of learning things that could let her become more independant and never be a victim again. I think the moment you say "leave the hound to die a very painful death" you are giving your interpretation, we could also say "Arya refused to kill a man" and that would also describe the action of the character took.
  2. elipride

    Is x character a psychopath?

    It also shouldn't be ignored that she's an eleven year old who spent a long time without any stability or safety and thinks she has no family and no better place to go. She is very smart, but also traumatized and immature. It's true she's there by choice, but how much freedom did she really have to choose? She ended up in Braavos almost by accident, she tried to convince the captain to take her to the wall and he refused, she thinks quite a few times that she has no other place to go (whether she actually has other options is irrelevant if she's convinced she doesn't have them), the alternative options the FM give are either something that doesn't appeal to Arya at all or wrapped up in the implication that she's too weak to be one of them (when we know Arya is stubborn and desperate to prove she's strong and that these guy are pros at reading people to manipulate them), she says that she wanted to ask Dareon to take her to the wall, FM be damned (the kindly men somehow never thought of offering taking her to the wall). So how much is she really choosing to serve the Faceless Men? That's one interpretation, but it could also be that she couldn't bring herself to do it after having spent time with him. If I remember correctly, she'd started to "forget" to mention him on her list sometimes. Or it could be a mix of both things. I don't think she's completely innocent, I think she was wrong in killing the insurance guy and even more wrong in killing Dareon, but it's not fair to put her on the level of people like Ramsay or Cersei without taking into consideration that she's a child who didn't fully develop, that she's traumatized, that the adults in the house of black and white are probably taking advantage of her vulnerable situation for their own purposes, and that she has many qualities that completely contradict the "psychopath" term.
  3. elipride

    Jon Snow's death

    Ok, whatever. Agree to disagree.
  4. elipride

    Jon Snow's death

    I'm not trying to paint things in black and white and say that Jon was doing everything wrong, but I do think he has way more responsiblity than people usually admit. We as readers who don't have an ancestral wall to take care of can understand his decisions and see that he's right about a lot of things, but objectively speaking, he made decisions that were not accoding to his responsibility and those will inevitably have consecuences. By the people who are giving their life to defend the wall. I got the impression that considering the wildlings the enemy was the widespread belief, although maybe I'm remembering things wrong. I agree that it's pure racism and that Jon is right, I'm just saying that it would make sense for other people at the wall to think that he's wrong. He thinks that he won't ask his brother to follow him to look for Ramsay so that no one can say that he forced the to forswear their vows and that if that was oathvreaking, the crime would be his alone. To me that sound like he's quite sure that searching for Ramsay means going against their vows. And I know he's a really good person, but personally, I'm not sure at all that Jon would have searched for a girl escaping her marriage if he didn't though she could be Arya. I also think that Jon was right worrying about the other as that is absolutely the bigger problem, but I do consider issues like insuficient food, a debt they can't pay or being threatened by people who're far more powerful than them to be real problems too. As much as Jon prepares for the others, it won't matter if the NW, the first defense against them, are considered traitors to the realm and get destroyed before they can make people undestand the danger. Like I said, I don't think things are black and white, I think both sides have good points.
  5. elipride

    Jon Snow's death

    How so? Are you avsolutely sure that Jon would've bothered to search for this girl if he didn't believe she could be Arya? And again, even if she wasn't Arya, a girl escaping from a marriage is none of his business as lord commander of the NW. Yeah, really. You're not being as clear as you think. You seem to think that Jon had no responsibility for Ramsay's letter because he didn't have Arya at the wall, and then you put that quote about Jon thinking that Melisandre could find Ramsay, which I don see what it's supposed to prove since we all agree that Jon wants to go find Ramsay. My point wasn't that Jon already had Arya or that he doesn't want to make Ramsay answer for his actions, but that Ramsay's threats an demands were mostly a result of Jon's actions. How insightful. I lend the books to my brother. Would it be too bothersome for you to answer those questions and enlighten a poor ignorant soul such as myself? Of course I am, that's what I'm trying to make you see, the point of view of the bean-counters, aka Jon's NW brothers. It seems perfectly undestandable from their perspective to think that accepting the wildlings was going against their purpose, and even if they're missing the forest and the bigger threat, they have some legitimate concerns. Besides that, Jon siding with Stannis made sense because he was the only one who helped the watch and had more power than them, but that still went against their vows of neutrality and was partly the reason of Ramsay's letter. Forgiving Mance and allowing him to go to Winterfell made sense from an emotional perspective, but it was motivated by personal desires, not a greater good, and that was another part of the reason of Ramsay's letter. And then Jon plans to abandon the wall to make Ramsay answer for his threats, which Jon himself considers as breaking his vows. Again, I'm not saying Jon had bad intentions or anything, but it's not hard to understand why his brothers thought that he was destroying the watch.
  6. elipride

    Jon Snow's death

    Jon was putting a lot of faith in Melissandre's prediction of the girl in the dying horse being Arya: Even if Mance wasn't supposed to go to Winterfell and planning on intercepting Arya, Jon was still clearly expecting Mance to bring Ramsay's wife to him. And even if he didn't know it was Arya, the lord commander of the NW has no business searching for a random girl in a dying horse. Not to mention that forgiving Mance, an oathbreaker, could also be considered a betrayal to the NW. I'm not sure what that quote is supposed to explain. Ramsay is an idiot but it doesn't seem like he sent those demands and threats just because he woke up in a bad mood. Why would he repeat so much that he wants his bride back in a letter to Jon if he didn't think Jon had something to do with her going missing? Why would he provoke Jon by threatening Mance's life? Why would he call Stannis Jon's king? Is it supposed to be a coincidence that Ramsays comment are specifically about the questionable things that Jon actually did? Regardless of its original purpose or how misguided it is, the NW has tried to prevent the passing of wildlings for so many years that it has become one or their purposes. my point is that going against that purpose will understandably be considered as a betrayal of the NW. I don't doubt that Jon did what any person would do, but that doesn't change the fact that he was breaking his vows, he thinks so himself, and he did things for personal interest when he shouldn't have. I get it about helping Stannis because he did aid the NW, but what greater good did Jon have in mind when he decided to send Mance to retrieve Arya? As understandable as it was, someone in his position doing that will inevitably have huge consecuences. And while it's true that his brothers weren't as concerned with the bigger threat as they should be, there were real issues they adressed that could seriously endanger the NW in the long term, like getting attacked for being considered traitors (which ended up happenning), the wall having a lot more people than they could feed or getting very indebted to Braavos. I get it that it's not like Jon had a lot of options and he was trying to do the right thing, but both sides have different but equally valid priorities.
  7. elipride

    Jon Snow's death

    Isn't the reason Ramsay threatened the NW that Jon sent Mance to take Arya away from him? Jon is a good person and his actions are understandable, but between trying to steal the wife of the warden of the north and marching to defeat him when he gets caught, letting go through the wall the people they're supposed to keep away from the wall, and actively helping Stannis, it's also understandable to think he's a traitor and that he has personal interests that he considers more important than the NW. Jon himself thinks that going after Ramsay means breaking his vows:
  8. elipride

    Does Asoiaf Have a True Protagonist? *SPOILERS*

    I do not think Arya will become a ruler and it's true she's not as connected to politics as Sansa, but I doubt she would be a dumbass about it. With the FM she's learning to detect lies, to act, to recolect information, to manipulate people, lenguages, etc. These things might not be specifically meant for "the game of thrones" or whatever but it's not like they can't be applied to that. And if we're talking about ruling, Bran is the only one of the Stark kids to have actual experience with that, Sansa never dealt with such a huge responsibility. I'm sure she'll end up having a big role and being very influential as a political player, but I don't think her skillset points towards her becoming a large scale ruler.
  9. elipride

    Areo Hotah - The Most Boring Man in Westeros?

    I've NEVER said that your theory is impossible and I've NEVER said that my theory is mandatory, only that it seeme inevitable in my opinion, I would appreciate you stop implying I did that. If anything, until now you were' the one who kept dissmissing all of my arguments as "conveniences" and refuse to acknowledge even the posibility of things being the way I said. But anyway, Arya definitely has some purpose in Essos, and it's true she and many other characters could have a satisfactory story without being in Westeros, I was just explaining my reasons to think that Arya going to Westeros makes a lot of sense thematicaly and for thinking it would require less conveniences than Arya getting involved with Dany's slavery plot that she had no connection to until now. I will admit my bias for thinking that if the story has to be condensed soon, it would be in Westeros. Dany seems to have a lot of set up for going to Westeros and I think she'll clash with fAegon in there, although I would actually like it if Dany stayed in Essos to deal with all that mess that was cause by abolishing slavery. I could also imagine tyrion in Essos, if he's meant to get involved with Dany's plot. But other main characters like Jon, Bran (who I'm not convinced will stay on that cave for too long), Arya and to a lesser degree Sansa have such a powerful connection to the North that I have a hard time imagining them finishing their stories in Essos, and beyond any connection I think they have possible plots in Westeros that, in my opinion, make more sense than staying in Essos. Although I don't rule out something like an exodus happening.
  10. elipride

    Areo Hotah - The Most Boring Man in Westeros?

    Why? Plenty of character are theorized to intersect and that doesn't mean that they're are not allowed to do anything plot relevant on their own or that they're just killing time in the meantime. You got me, I assumed. Although I never said my opinion was fact, we're all assuming a bit when we talk about theories of future developments. And how the mercy kill is done by the FM specifically is not that relevant for Arya since, like I said before, she never accepted their filosophy. The important thing is that mercy as a theme in general comes up quite often in her story, not just with the FM, also with Sandor and in that moment when she gave water to some men who were dying in cages before the brotherhood gave them a quick death. And do you really think that Arya would see her mother as a walking rotten corpse and think "wow that's badass, we can go kill people together"? It would be traumatizing. If anything, I can imagine seing Cat in that state might make her realize that getting fixated on revenge is not a good life path for herself either. And yes, I am assuming. And yet, while abroad, the author kept strenghtening her connection to her home country and even made her want to ask a person to take her away from Braavos and back to to Westeros where her brother was. That might not be definitive proof of Arya going back to Westeros, but is is definitive proof that Arya going back to Westeros is a possibility and that it would make sense. Now you're just making things up. I kept saying things like "i think" or "in my opninion" and I acknowledged the possibility of being wrong and things working out the way you say, while you kept dismissing anything I said as just nonsense. And look who's assuming now. I won't dismiss the posibility of this happening, but I personally disagree. I said my reasons to think that Arya might go a little too deep with the FM but that she won't ever fully embrace them.
  11. elipride

    Areo Hotah - The Most Boring Man in Westeros?

    Again, I don't think Arya would go to Westero right away, I never said that LSH would just sit drinking tea waiting for Arya to arrive, between the conflict with Brienne and Jaime and the possible Frey massacre she'll keep herself busy for a while. And meeting Nymeria again doesn't necessarily mean they'll stay together 24/7, it's not like that for Jon and Ghost for example. Maybe Nymeria on her own doesn't ensure that Arya goes back to Westeros, but when you add her to all the things that are in the Riverlarlands that relate to Arya she's pretty prominent. And I don't know, but knowing your mother is a walking corpse might be a bit of a motivation to go see her, Arya has plenty of focus on the theme of killing for mercy because some things are worse than death. And why didn't she go to Winterfell in the forst place? The story is incomplete, we don't know what is it that she has to do in Braavos of how many more things she'll learn there, but so far she has learn plenty of things that she wouldn't have if she'd gone to Winterfell sooner. You think that being sent on a mission as a FM would be a more natural development but why? She had very little training, she constantly breaks their rules and she's failing miserably at becoming no one, it doesn't make any sense that the FM would sent someone like that to kill Dany. And why would having Arya becoming a full member of an organization that she spent not that many chapters with and that she clearly doesn't like be more natural than interacting with characters that she had a very strong connection with for the majority of her story? Why would becoming an assassin, which she never actually wanted to be, fit her narrative more than going to find her family, her biggest motivation through the story? What would she do after sparing Dany? Where would she go? If she stays in Essos, what was the point of making her spend so many more chapters in the Riverlands? What was the point of building up her connection to Winterfell? If she was meant continue to blend in and be invisible, what was the point of constantly remarking how much she was failing at that and making her so sociable? If she was not meant to meet her "pack" (which can refer to Nymeria's pack, her family or her companions), why make her the character who is the most obsessed with the idea of finding a pack? Just saying, Arya's story has many possible outcomes, nothing is set in stone.
  12. elipride

    Areo Hotah - The Most Boring Man in Westeros?

    How can you be so sure Arya won't see Nymeria again? Their bond is constantly broght up and not only for worldbuilding, but as Arya'smain reminder of her identity, how can you be so certain that them meeting again is not possible at all? Besides, Arya reclaiming her identity is pretty sure to happen and after having a fake Arya Stark, having Nymeria would be definitive proof she's the real one. I'm not saying that Arya NEEDS to be the one to kill LSH, but I do think it would make sense. It's not only about being the one who pulled her out of the river, the themes in Arya's story would fit this theory really well. Like I said before, they're both dealing with revenge an justice in some rather extreme ways, they both have a connection withe the brotherhood and Gendry (I think Arya has more chapters with the BwB than she does with the FM actually), Arya learned about killing as mercy, she took Mercy as her name and Cat is also called mother merciless, Arya spent a ton of time trying to reach her mother and keeps remembering her in Braavos by calling herself Cat, and LSH is currently searching for Arya. Maybe you're right in you prediction, I won't deny that there' things against mine, but LSH, the BwB and Nymeria are all in the Riverlands and are all too relevant in Arya's arc for simply dissmissing the possibility of them meeting. Like I said in my first post, I don't think Arya would go to Westeros right away, you're right with that, she has to do something more significant in Braavos, I just don't think it's becoming an assasin. I also mentioned the reasons I have to think that Arya and the FM meant to part ways, they're not a good match, she cant become no one and they know it, maybe they have other motives to keep her there that are not about making her an assasin but we don't know yet. I have no idea why they would let her go but we also don't know for sure if she went past the point of no return or what exactly are their intentions with her. Well, if Arya kills LSH, the BwB would be lacking a leader, right? Look, I'm not saying things will absolutely happen the way I say, I'm just giving my reasons to think it's plausible and that it would make sense themativally. I think you're being way too dissmissive of anything that's not what you want, you talk as if you had already read the manuscript for next book or something. You just can't guaratee that Arya absolutely won't meet other characters that she had a constant connection for most of the books, and trust me ,I am aware that a child as a leader sound ridiculous and that Arya is far from being able to fullfill such a role for the time being, but you can't guarantee that those parts of her story that might foreshadow a leadership role absolultely won't have an outcome. Honestly, I wouldn't even even consider it possible if it wasn't for GRRM basically saying that he'll write what he originally had in mind for characters with or without the age gap. Q: 5-year gap? A: It worked for characters like Arya and Dany but not so much for the adults or those who had a lot of action coming. He was writing chapters where Jon thought, "Well, not a lot has happened these past five years, it's been kinda nice." And Cersei chapters where she thought, "Well, I've had to kill sooo many people the last five years." So he ended up dropping it. He said he would have done it sooner if he hadn't told so many fans about it. And there is no gap anymore. "If a twelve-year old has to conquer the world, then so be it."
  13. elipride

    Areo Hotah - The Most Boring Man in Westeros?

    I personally think that if she never sees Nymeria again and the wolves importance has nothing to do with her, it would mean lot of words wasted on a relationship with a very underwhelming outcome. And like I said, she does have a very strong connection to Cat/LSH and her family has been her main motivation through the story, it's not too crazy to think something related to her family could make her go back to Westeros, and having a wolf by her side would convince anyone that she is Arya Stark. Identity is also a huge theme for her and she's doing a terrible job at becoming "no one". About her purpose, I can actually see her having some leadership role (leadership, not ruling). Finding a pack and protecting her people are really important in her story, much more important than revenge or the FM actually, she remembers some leadership lesson from Ned to his sons which is would be pretty useless otherwise, she knows the suffering of the smallfok first hand and doesn't judge people based on status, she has a charismatic personality, she takes the lead when traveling with Gendry and Hotpie and tries to protect them, and even the things she's learned with Syrio and the FM like strenghtening her perception, reading people, gathering indormation, lenguages and manipulation could be useful for that. And then Nymeria, the direwolves are supposed to be like an extension of the warg, and if Arya's wolf, named after a leader, is gathering and leading a huge pack of wolves with Arya feeling stronger that ever when she's in that role, there's no reason to dismiss it's potential as foreshadow. I'm not saying that it WILL happen because she's not mentally in a position to do that for now, she lacks any actual experience, and a 12 year old as a leader does sound pretty ridiculous, just saying that some groundwork is there and that she has a way stronger connection with things in Westeros like Nymeria, Winterfell, Gendry, her siblings or LSH than with the FM. And GRRM did basically said he won't give a damn about characters being too young.
  14. elipride

    Areo Hotah - The Most Boring Man in Westeros?

    What about Nymerias's pack? There's way too much focus on the bond she has with Nymeria to end up not seeing her again. And some people theorize she could go to Westeros because of LSH since she spent a big part of her story searching for Cat, she pulled her out of the river, shares the themes of family and revenge/justice with her, they share a connection to the brotherhood and Gendry, and Arya also has the theme of killing as mercy going on because there're things worse than death. She wouldn't be going to Westeros right away because she has to do something more singnificant in Braavos, but in my opinion, there's no way she stays with the FM for long. She doesn't believe in their filosophy of killing without asking questions, she doesn't believe in their god, she doesn't follow their rules, she keeps Needle to use it "one day", she still calls herself a water dancer, she keeps thinking of her family and using names of people she knew instead of becoming "no one", her connection with Nymeria and her skinchanging keep growing stronger, she even wanted to ask Dareon to take her to the wall. I don't know how the hell she'll manage to leave them but is seems like a matter of time for that to happen.
  15. elipride

    Would you classify Joffery as a pscopath or sociopath?

    How is Arya a sociopath?
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