Stonehearted Snake

They do deserve an award but not for removing her tattoos - because that was a body double ;) It really looks seamless!

Where did he say that? I heard him say characters but not a specific number.

Soooo... Shireen is dead but the usurper Balon Greyjoy is still alive? :dunno:

I've seen quite a few people ask this and it surprised me. I thought it was obvious why - fire also kills/harms people. It's one thing to toss fire at a single wight across the room from you. Quite another to try to flame hundreds (thousands?) of wights running rampage everywhere. For any wight they hit with fire they are just as likely to also light up one of their own. Not to mention that wooden (and thus burnable) gate that is the only thing holding back the wights at first.

That is what I was saying - "they" aren't going to do it. Olly will do it. Going rogue. Going solo. I like the idea that maybe Thorne will try to lead some kind of peaceful and law-abiding revolt to change command but Olly will take it too far. My prediction anyways, FWIW.

Olly may go rogue. Which is so much less interesting than FTW but ends up with the same plot outcome of "dead" Jon.

I very much agree on this point. Part of the strength of the theme of both Tyrion and Jon as semi-mirrors is that both characters show that it is much more nurture not nature that makes you who you are. Jon is Stark through and through just as, as Jenna says, Tyrion is Tywin's son. Not biologically but everything else. And that everything else is more important (except for the BOTD and dragon-riding thing though :) )

Ok I promise we can talk about this more in another thread since I don't want this to be closed for being OT - but I used to utterly hate A+J=T until I really looked into and talked through the thematic significance of it with the folks who run that thread in the book forum. There is actually really deep thematic relevance to the character arcs of both Jon and Tyrion if it turns out they are actually the reverse of each other. Remember - their first conversation was about being a bastard and owning it. And also I find it thematically resonant that then Jaime killed Tyrion's father while Tyrion killed Jaime's. I could talk about this so much more and bring up so much other thematic relevance but like I said don't want to derail too much. Ok back on topic :)

Yeah I think they (Rhaegar and Lyanna) were married but it's not like there is really a system of legal marriage - it's all based in religion. And since Rhaegar and Elia were already married he's then a bigamist. (I know this is stretching it somewhat but it's my favorite pot that maybe has just a few cracks in it!)

Not to derail the thread entirely but there are some of us who don't think he is a bastard. The Targaryens were bigamists in ages past. They only stopped because of the Faith. (And really hoping to not derail further but the point of Jon not being a bastard is important thematically because Tyrion is actually a bastard of Aerys) :leaving:

What are you talking about?!? Dickon Manwoody is the BEST. NAME. EVER.

I'm 100% in on AJT but mostly because of TWOIAF (and the awesome AJT thread leaders in the general book section who helped me see the thematic significance). But I am curious why this meeting made you more into AJT?

did you see my other post? It's some pots cracking alright but maybe there is a reason they don't go in the water... The Drowned God!

This is utterly out-there crackpottitude but maybe there is no point to the WW making wights when they are in/on water because then they belong to the Drowned God? They are set up as opposing forces somewhat in TWOIAF.

The letter: At hardhome with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Braavosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Storm Crow defeated, six crew dead, many wildlings. Eight ravens left. Dead things in the water. Send help by land, seas wracked by storms.

:agree: Yes I think that is what the show is trying to imply, that the reason the WW haven't attacked yet is they are still building their army of the undead. Because seriously they totally could have reached the Wall and probably even had a few trips back and forth from there to the Land of Always Winter in the time since s2 finale at FotFM and Hardhome.

I've been pondering this too as I was convinced Jorah was taking JC's place and thus confirmed to return to Westeros. But now I wonder if we are just supposed to infer that he is resigned to death and wants to go out in glory serving his queen in some way rather than as a nasty Stone Man.ETA: Infer that because he looks at his grey scale and then goes back to Yezzan.

I've been kinda into the Others aren't the Big Bad theory in the books, though never taking it so far as people are the evil ones, which some posters argue. But they are definitely coming off as evil in the show and that's fine. It's hard to show really complex underlying emotions and if the end result is the same, I am ok with that. That being said, nothing we've seen has dismissed the possibility that the CotF are somehow connected to the Others/WW. Could be they created them to attack the First Men and their weapon got out of control or maybe they are still in control. Either way, I am still thinking there is maaaybe something there. Don't think we will learn anything more about the CotF this season though, since Bran is on hiatus.

A+J=T all the way baby!

Yes. Absolutely. I thought that too and was very happy because the idea that Edd would be part of FTW was horrifying!

I guess that is what i was wondering.. Will we actually see her again as a wight? I don't think we will see any more of the Walkers and the wights this season and I really thought she was credited somewhere. But there's been so many fan edits and misinformation around, that's probably all it was.

I thought I had read somewhere that NotVal was credited for future episodes...? But that could have been an IMDB rumor. Not sure.

Me too me too! Of all the book titles, that is my favorite. It's so creepy and evocative and tells you so much.

Cersei licking water off the floor - Emmy now please!!

I was on the edge of my seat saying, "Do it! Tell her!!" and when he did I had the same feeling as when Tyrion called Dany "Your Grace" - these enormous game-changer events happening that book-readers have been waiting for forever!!