ASOIAFrelatedusername

Episode 4 continues the soullessness.

Onto the meeting of Bumi and Aang

Also we finally learn why Zuko and Iroh needed to be in Omashu, brace yourselves:

Also related too that is that Iroh is no longer the funny, old, fat guy. In the original some of that might have been a facade deliberately put on, but at the very least the contrast between that and his displays of badassness enhanced the latter.

And finishing of with another nitpick

I have given the show a chance after the first episode. It fails as an adaptation, not in the obvious ways that the Shyamalan movie did, but in deliberately robbing the original of its spirit. It honestly reminds me a bit of Jackson's Hobbit movies where the creatives were also not content to adapt an adventure story for children, but needed to make it a fantasy EPIC!!!

PS: Aang still has not even attempted to waterbend

8 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

But the issue is the ones who went to Valinor and then came back to Middle-Earth in defiance of the Valar.

In thr end, the Noldor going back to ME was a suicide mission, and thr Vakar had to intervene anyway, fucking up Beleriand.

The Noldorian effort ensured that Morgoth had to concentrate on Beleriand and that they were Men who were not under his dominion.

While I can understand that the Valar couldn't commit their forces against Morgoth without that resulting in catastrophic damage, they still could have helped in more covert ways, like they did later with the Istari. However outside of Ulmo and the occasional eagle rescue (where it isn't that Manwe was involved) they didn't. At the very least they could have refrained from drowning all those people Turgon send for help.

Onto episode 3 and the show is the show seriously thinking that referencing the Cabbage Merchant is going to endear me to it?

So first despite this episode being called Omashu and nominally set in Omashu, we don't actually get anything from "The King of Omashu". Instead Omashu is infused with an unnecessary additional layer of dark grittines ( ) and the plot is a mix of "Jet" and "The Northern Air Temple".

Both episodes really needed time to breathe and it goes without saying that they aren't as fun as the original. In addition the series really doesn't trust that the audience would want to watch a simple adventure show that gains layers as it goes on, hence the need to inject more grittiness and make the plot more complicated.

Zuko, Iroh and Zhao are also in this episode presumably because of some contractual obligation.

The same is true for Azula, who's introduction also lacks the same punch that the original had, as well as Mai and Ty Lee who are just kind of there. And I feel bad about saying this, but Mai's actress is not a good fit for Mai's very "sharp" character design. Ozai and Azula suffer like Iroh from the change in (voice-)actors.

Lastly I hate the character assassination of lieutenant Jee. That guy was exemplary soldier dammit.

PS: And Aang still isn't interested in waterbending.

PPS: I am still waiting for the Agni Kai between Zhao and Zuko

PPPS: They should have remade Korra

PPPPS: They also didn't show Earth benders powering the delivery system unless I missed something

So kinda rushed through the second one. It might have been better but the general point that is show is lacking the sheer fun and levity of the original still stands

We also have the second instance of an episode being cut after the Southern Air Temple and it's the Waterbending Scroll, which I suspect is going to hurt Katara's character. The original showed that she wasn't all nice and well-behaved. She could be jealous (of Aang's easy mastery of waterbending) and self-righteous (her justification for stealing the scroll). Here the waterbending scroll is just given to Katara in secret by her grandmother

The episode also foreshadowed the White Lotus though I guess they can slot that in elsewhere (and they will probably do so with far less subtlety).

On the plus-side maybe the episode's absence will mean that there will be less new Zutara shippers.

Stuff that annoyed me to varying degrees

The show still hasn't justified its existence.

Regarding One Piece, which I have never watched and, unless I were to suffer a fatal aneurysm, never will: At least you can say that abridging that absolutely massive behemoth has some value. Here the original is already on Netflix and it's only 61 episodes. It's runtime is not that much longer than what the live-action version's is likely going to be.

He put the elves in Middle-earth in the first place after all.

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Had the Noldor not gone to Middle-Earth, the Valar would likely have intervened sooner. Instead they stayed their hand to punish the Noldor, per Mandos’ curse

And Men, Sindar and dwarves es along with them, the assholes.

Just watched the first episode and it was a disappointment Actually it confirmed my fears. This is not Avatar The Last Airbender. This is Shyamalan, but competently executed. It has very nice visual, but it lacks the soul of the original save for Zuko and Iroh who are the bright spots in this misery. There is none of the fun and energy of the original, it's a generic action fantasy show.

I don't blame them for the child acting, but I do blame for Gyatso and Sokka, the former who is almost unrecognizable

the latter is just a dull asshole

One significant scene that was missing was the penguin and the exploration of the wrecked Fire Nation vessel. As a result Katara don't really bond all that much

I did not feel like the scenes before the comet contribute anything meaningful. I found the original's way far superior.

Lastly (and least) it's a bit weird that Kyoshi, gets to narrate the "Water, Earth, Fire, Air" with a brief appearance and not Roku, who matters far more for the story.

So far the show has not convinced me that it needed to exist.

Finally

Please don't give the impression that the show abomination had anything to do with the real Galadriel. She might have been prideful, but she wasn't a vengeance obsessed maniac who could barely have a normal conversation with other people.

Honestly I don't think that even Feanor would have been so idiotic as to insult Miriel and demand to speak to her manager.

Honestly I can't see a way for ROP to get fundamentally better. They are committed to a 5 season continuous storyline and they screw up with laying the foundation.

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Outside of that, the show just isn’t written in a ‘fun’ way. There is little humour, the pacing is incredibly laboured, entire episodes can go by without anything of interest happening. I often just skipped ahead because I was so bored. That is so far away from being fun. I honestly find it completely bewildering that someone could watch this show was describe it as ‘a bit of fun’.

If only the Amazon video player offered the opportunity to play at 2x speed.

From the linked article

https://nordic.ign.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action/78311/news/the-big-netflix-avatar-the-last-airbender-producer-interview-this-is-a-remix-not-a-cover

Quote

There are certain scenes that you never saw in the original, whether it's the attack on the Southern Air Temple or the Agni Kai between Ozai and Zuko. And those are things that I knew we needed to see in order to make it feel much more grounded as a live-action show. So it was about feeling your way throughout the process. Where can we take the story into the new directions that still feels true to the spirit of the original? And that's what it all comes down to, making sure it feels like it was Avatar in spirit.

What? If you want to include them because you think it would be cool or because you needed filler, then say so. Don't make up this bs argument. It makes you seem like an idiot who has no idea about storytelling.

Quote

AK: Yeah, so Azula is one who, in the animated series, you don't really see until Season 2. Fire Lord Ozai is also one who does not appear very much in Season 1. But we made the conscious decision to bring some of those Fire Nation storylines more to the fore in the first season because I felt like we needed to balance out the storylines. We needed to know more about the background for Zuko, and why he's doing what he's doing, and set that in the context of his family dynamic, and how he fits in with his father and sister. And that's something they get to later in the series, of the animated series, but we had a little bit of a benefit of hindsight. We knew where that was going, so we could pull some of those elements upfront into the first season and make the first season a little bit richer and a little bit deeper in terms of character storylines.

So I think in the animated series, a lot of that was figured out as they went along. And then, they got to Season 2 and Season 3, and they were able to go more into the backstory and stuff. We wanted to make sure that Zuko felt like a much more dimensionalized character, and that meant bringing in more elements of his family storyline. So that naturally meant feeling like we should see a little more Azula and a little more Ozai. If anything, Azula's story in the first season is a little bit of a prequel to her story in the second and third seasons, but that's another element that we thought we should see rather than just talk about.

One of the reasons why Zuko's character arc was so successful in the original was because they took their time with it. If it gets front loaded like this they might run into problems in season 2. Although, if they only have 8 episodes for that, then shifting around the development becomes more understandable. Seriously they need more episodes for season 2.

Having said that, I really really dislike that dig at the original.

Quote

_{And going back to those narrative liberties, was there anything in particular where you were like, “no, this is set in stone. This can’t change”?} 

AK: There's a lot of things like that, starting with the characters. I mean, the characters, we had to dimensionalize them, but there are certain core ... I would say there's a core DNA to the characters that you don't want to mess with, whether it's Aang, like I said, his childlike goofiness, his sense of humor, the burden of his responsibility, Sokka and his humor and his pragmatic outlook on life, Katara's warmth and her optimism. Those things had to carry through into our version. So you start with the characters, and you say, "What's the essence of the characters that got a big change? And what's the room where we can expand it a little more?" The cartoon, for as great as it was, was 15 years ago. And so, things have changed. There are certain roles I think that Katara did in the cartoon that we didn't necessarily also do here. I mean, I don't want to really get into a lot of that, but some gender issues that didn't quite translate.

My friend just watched it for the first time, and she's like, "Sokka's an asshole." I was like, "Yeah, no, he kind of is."

JR: Yeah, especially in the first season.

AK: Yeah. So we had to guard against that kind of stuff. And so, those are things that aren't really changing a character as so much as updating them a little bit. And in terms of plot points, yeah, there was a lot of things that we, in the writers’ room, we put down, "These are the mileposts that we're going to hit. We're going to ..." We knew where the big story would begin and end. We were mimicking the first season of the animated series, so we knew we were going to get to the Northern Water Tribe by the end of the season. So that helped us map out the root. And then, like I said earlier, once you start unraveling some of the threads and re-weaving together, it showed us a path, the way forward.

Urgh.

Quote

If you could send fans who are anxious about the live-action show any message, what would it be? 

JR: I think, as a fan of the show, they're going to get the live-action version of the show they've always hoped they would get.

Albert, anything to add?

AK: This is the version of Avatar that I would want to see as a fan.

Rather arrogant.

11 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I'm excited for season 2. Who's with me?

Define "excited". I am looking forward to it with morbid fascination and curiosity as to how they can further the source material or what insanities the writers/showrunners can come up with. 

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

He absolutely tells us his plan - more detailed than almost anyone else. He isn't trying to stick around to let revolutionaries organize anything - he's against organization. He doesn't want a just, fair or equitable society, and says as much. 

1. Kill all those evil rulers (how deep the purge is supposed to go, I can't remember him explaining) and the Avatar

2. ....

3. Profit

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Sorry, you're saying that being discriminated against in the job you want to do doesn't affect your life? That's an interesting take. You don't think being born to a cop and not having bending powers would have zero affect? 

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

We don't see other cities and we don't see anyone joining. That said, the complaint from the Equalists is not about the world, it's about Republic City, so it hardly matters about the rest of the world. 

In Korra that is, but we see that during Aang's time that there doesn't appear to have been any such restriction in place (if it even is a restriction in RC)

5 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

There might be exceptions here and there but the vast majority of everyone here are all benders. Point of fact, the only military that doesn't have a lot of benders is the Water tribe - and from what I remember it's because the Fire Nation went and killed as many benders as it could. 

There are lots of benders, yes, but nothing that hints at them being the "absolute majority". If benders are really being overrepresented, it's because they are on average better at fighting.

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Sorry, you're saying that being discriminated against in the job you want to do doesn't affect your life? That's an interesting take. You don't think being born to a cop and not having bending powers would have zero affect? 

If you cannot do the job as well as any other, then that such, but that's not unjust speaking as a person with a minor disability.

9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

There's a whole lot of indication that nonbenders are treated worse - like the whole season 1 show. Do we see benders going around and kicking people? Only in ATLA and the gangs in Korra and the way the sports people treat others and...oh wait, I guess we see that quite a bit. 

The stuff about non-benders being treated worse only starts when Amon has already significant support and conducted a major terrorist attack. Until then it's just assholes, who happen to be benders, being assholes to people who probably are non-benders. And that's, iirc, only a single incident (assuming you are referring to the crime Korra attempts to stop in episode 2). In ATLA it's not about benders being assholes, it's about the Fire Nation being assholes.

13 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Pretty sure that Aang's son who becomes a general is pretty bitter about not being a bender, too. 

Well that's because the writers decided that they needed to tarnish Aang's legacy in order to make Korra look better by comparison.

And if I weren't overly sour over that plot-point, then I would say that Aang's supposed favoritism was a understandable mistake and not the result of a discriminatory attitude towards non-benders.

28 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

But the idea that he doesn't have a plan for it is ridiculous. You don't agree with that plan and that's fine, but it's entirely consistent and correct in his worldview. 

He never tells us his plan. He doesn't stick around in Ba Sing Se to help the revolutionaries organize a just, fair and equitable society and he never gives indication that he plans to. If his worldview is consistent, then it's consistently shit.

28 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm taking what I see. The Republic had basically nothing but metalbenders as cops. The earth kingdom military under Kuvira was almost entirely benders. The Dai Li were all Earthbenders. Virtually everyone in the Fire Nation military was a bender. 

The Republic is only one city and it might entirely possible to join despite being a non-bender

I honestly don't remember the composition of Kuvira's army. It also doesn't count.

The Dai Li I give you

With the Fire Nation military also don't remember the exact, but there were definitely non-benders as well including the valiant private Wang Fire.

28 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Also, the 'have a simpler time getting some jobs' is EXACTLY what the problem the equalists are saying exists, so I appreciate you acknowledging that. 

But that doesn't matter if it doesn't have an effect on people's lives. As it stands the discrimination is one where natural aptitude for fighting is being preferred in fighting-related job.

For example, there is no indication that non-bender are poorer then benders, there is no indication that non-bender are being treated as something lesser, even when the Boomeraang squad is in the Fire Nation. The only group of people who seem to see being a non-bender as something shameful are the Fire Nation royal family and that seems to only extend to their own members.

17 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

I complain about RoP Galadriel, Celebrimbor , bad dialogues , time compression of thousands of years, Elrond, Isildur,the plot etc

As you should.

8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I honestly don't remember, but...so? The point is no kingdoms at all. Having elected leaders of a country means having countries. 

And after countries come provinces who also leaders and then cities, towns and villages. All of these things have leaders. Does Zaheer intend to kill them to and reduce human society to the level of individual families?

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It absolutely does, and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. Oppression does not mean savage beatings by itself.

What? If benders weren't being represented, then it would be oppression.

13 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

There is when you think about how many benders there are vs how many nonbenders there are in the world. We are told that bending is pretty uncommon - maybe 1 in 10 people, maybe far fewer - but government has 50% or more benders, benders are in control of every law enforcement system we ever see, it's built into the way the society is run and driven and the sports that people play. How is this not discriminatory?

You are making assumption from a ridiculously small sample size. Yes benders might have a simpler time getting some jobs because of their natural fighting capability. However that does not mean that they are excluded from law enforcement, those idiot cops from season 2 were never confirmed to be benders, or the military, see the Yuyan-archers or the Rough Rhinos.

There is simply no indication that non-benders face any kind of oppression, neither in ATLA nor Korra.

13 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I absolutely disagree with this. He certainly does want to destroy things like the Earth Kingdom and the Avatar when he has a chance, but his whole viewpoint is that people should be able to choose for themselves once the pieces have been torn down. His goal is disorder of the world. Putting something in place would hardly be part of his ethos. 

Didn't he also want to kill the democratically elected Raiko?

13 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

There was plenty of oppression against non-benders; the most obvious part here is that benders represented almost all of the leadership at every single level of every government anywhere. If you don't think that instills how unfair the world is and people don't feel represented...do you understand history? 

Benders being represented doesn't equal oppression of non-benders. If we want to look at representation among rulers:

During ATLA it's 3 non-benders (Arnook, Hakoda, Kuei) vs 2 benders (Ozai/Azula/Zuko and technically Aang). During the Yakone incident we have at least 2 non-benders (Sokka and the Air Nomad representative) on the Republic City council and during Korra itself only Tarrlok is explicitely confirmed to be a bender. All in all there appears to be no discrimination either way.

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

This is a straight up lie

In fact (some) people complained about her for the same reason that @KingAerys_II complains about ROP-Galadriel.

Socialism is evil and anarchism is inane. It's a good thing that they aren't portrayed positively.

And I am not interested with those who defend them.

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, I don't get how Zaheer's idea is all hot air. He might not be dealing with all the same information others are, but his ideology of no nations and no Avatar is hardly hot air - especially given the events of ATLA. He's also a very interesting concept of opposition to the air nomads - I really love it when they take different powers and reformulate the philosophy of using them. The Air nomads wanted to separate themselves from the bonds of the world and isolated themselves and desires; Zaheer wanted to separate everyone from the bonds of the world and allow everyone to live without kings or gods. 

The issue with Zaheer is that he just wants to destroy things and thinks that will end in a better world. He doesn't offer any better alternative.

4 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Amon was similarly a great villain in terms of his message and who he was uniting under him, including Asami's dad. It's not a particularly unique story in fiction but they did it well and I thought it was a great twist to have him be a sham but exploit the desires of folks. 

Any point Amon might have had is undermined by the fact that there was never any oppression against non-benders until he started shit. He also fails to justify taking normal people's bending away.

2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

There were quite a few minor characters who looked evil, especially in early episodes.
In fact, if the Gaang hadn't spent a bit of time in the Fire nation (with Aang going to school), thus exposing the role of propaganda, I might be talking about ATLA differently. There are a few episodes that magnified the entire show.

Thanks for the explanation.

And now for something different: The timeline extension that the show is doing

I have to say that I am wary of it and wonder what they are going to fill the gaps with. I guess some time could be set aside for training, but that would still leave huge gaps in the story where the characters have nothing to do.

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

A bad product doesn’t have to be conceived by “activists”.  I’m not fond of RoP… but the accusation it has been created by “activists” is bizarre.

One might interpret the change in the reason for Numenor's dislike for the Elves as an attempt to make a statement against anti-immigrant sentiments in the real world.

However I am happy to apply Hanlon's Razor here.

34 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Yes and no. In the end, Amon isn't killed by Korra (only exposed), and Zaheer ends up helping her.

Korra is more prone to resort to force/violence than Aang, but it very seldom works. I'd argue her approach is only best against Kuvira who, ironically, mirrors Korra herself.

You are being more generous to Korra than I am, but I can see your point. Still I would liked to see her actually tackling the underlying issues that helped the villains into power.

34 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

That's a subjective appreciation. In the final analysis, I actually agree with you, but it's worth bearing in mind that we're talking about a fucking cartoon here. Do you know a lot of cartoons that attempted to tackle so many of these themes at once?
I can think of some that worked with a few of these themes, but Korra was truly ambitious.

I can see the ambition, yes, but I would be more willing to give Korra points for trying if they weren't all those other problems including season 2.

34 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

I hate the way the equalists were presented, but it's an American show so they were always going to botch that I guess, and season 1 had other merits. Season 2 was a fail imho, and not just because of the antagonist. But Zaheer and Kuvira were excellent villains that could introduce young viewers to the complexity of some real-world problems.

I somewhat disagree with Zaheer. Sure, he and his gang provide excellent fight scenes on par with the original (seasons 1 and 2 feel lacking in that regard), but his ideology is just hot air.

Kuvira should have replaced Mako/Bolin/Asami in season 3. As it stands now her imperialism feels like an inferior version of the Fire Nation's where the show had much more time to explore it.

34 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

You're the one who forgets that not everyone got a shot at redemption.

Ok you have to elaborate because I am not seeing what you are trying to say here and how that relates to characters facial features.

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Firstly, why on earth does the show need to be "properly" anything? It isn't obliged to follow its inspirations 100%, and neither does ATLA.

Well a show should be properly written.

If you are fine with people misusing spiritual/religious imagery for the sake entertainment, then I want argue against it. I will say however that ATLA made better/more interesting use of the same imagery.

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Secondly, no, Vaatu being held captive didn't mean evil ended. Nor is that true after his disintegration in the end of Season 2. He carries on, and the chaos and darkness he embodies never goes away. Hence the need for balance, which Raava initially provided by battling him constantly to keep his powers in check after he forced open the Sprit portals, and achieved later by Raava and Wan fusing.

Vaatu being imprisoned should have been a horrible disaster. It should bring imbalance (if you are committed to the ying-yang thing). If you want Raava to be sole great spirit embodying balance, then fine, but that doesn't work with the imagery.

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

No. Normal possession kills the human. Raava and Wan fused, and were only able to do so during Harmonic Convergence. Same for Raava and Korra, who is the first Avatar of this new cycle. It is not a possession, because if it was, killing the Avatar in the Avatar State wouldn't end the Avatar, since Raava could just repossess the reborn spirit of Wan. 

It's a special kind of possession, but it's still a possession. The fact that Raava and Korra can be separated shows that.

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

I'd like some proof of that, given how obviously wrong so many of the statements in the link are.

Avatarspirit was a big fansite back in the day. I cannot prove that their information really came from nick.com, but don't think that they were misrepresenting things. And what statements are "obviously wrong"?

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

They were the only ones who were physically in the mortal realm. Zhao specifically says so, and it is why they're susceptible to his fire bending, unlike other spirits like Hei Bai, who were not affected by bending one bit.

There is also Wan Shi Tong and Hei Bai was physical enough to destroy buildings. I also just rewatched the relevant parts and nowhere is it said than Hei Bai can't be affected by bending. Aang just never tries to fight him.

Tui and La might have been the only ones who took permanent residence on the ordinary side of the world, but there are plenty other spirits how are also part of this world

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Uh huh. The Lion Turtle specifically says "In the era before bending, we bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves. To bend another's energy, your own spirit must be unbendable, or you will be corrupted and destroyed."

Well thank you for the quote because it shows that energy bending predates regular bending which the humans of Wan's time clearly practice.

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

And this knowledge is used by Aang to energybend Ozai's bending away. So are you arguing energybending works only one way? That the opposite is possible, and that the Lion Turtles themselves can do it, are both clearly implied and stated in the bit of dialog from ATLA. There's no retconning here.

Let me change my sentence then: