ASOIAFrelatedusername

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

Yes and no. She generally fails to solve the problems through punching on her own, often getting her ass kicked when she tries that. She has to accept that she needs help, as well as training/discipline to achieve anything.

Yeah sure, but ultimately her problems are still ultimately solved with violence. That she gets with the punching doesn't change that

Amon: Gets punched with suddenly appearing Airbending powers

Unavaatu Is the exception because he gets defeated by Korra doing spirit cleansing, which she somehow is able to do. Is there any in-show explanation or something from the creators how that whole thing, including Kaiju-Korra, worked?

Zaheer: Gets punshed in an awesome fight scene where Korra gets some help.

Kuvira: Again a fight involving a giant mech and a laser

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

Apart from that, I think there's a difference between saying Korra has no substance, and saying one doesn't like its substance.
The themes in Korra are not the same as those in ATLA, but they could easily be said to be far more complex - they're political more than spiritual. In fact,

It certainly wants to tackle more complex themes, but it fails. Take Equalism for example: The issue of non-bender isn't at all established in Korra (and also not in TLA). Non-bender discrimination only begins once Amon becomes a big problem because council member was trying to bring the whole thing down and the others were morons. Then it gets solved through a single election.

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

In fact, I'm tempted to say ATLA is actually far more manichean - you can immediately spot truly "evil" characters thanks to their facial features.

Missing an important point of ATLA entirely.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Except the "good" spirit, came from where? The heart of the "evil" spirit. Precisely as in the Yin-yang symbol. The heart of darkness is light, and correspondingly, in the heart of light is darkness. 

That is still not properly ying-yang. There both light AND dark are required to achieve harmony, the imprisonment of Vaatu should have led to horrible consequences, but it didn't. The Avatar should have been possessed by both Raava and Vaatu to avoid imbalance.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Ummm that is what the Avatar is, an entity that is both a powerful spirit, and a human. Did you perhaps just read about the episode? 

Nope. The Avatar is now a reincarnating human who is possessed by a spirit. Raava and the Avatar are separate entities.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

What source is this? Why is the Avatar a "him" only? This seems like a fansite explanation based on someone's (bad) interpretation of the show. 

Apparently this was taken from nick.com where they posted background info for show back when it was airing.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

They already were extradimensional. Tui and La, the moon and ocean spirits, we are told, "crossed over to the mortal realm", which made them susceptible to bending, which is exactly what we see happens to the spirits in the normal world during Wan's time. Whereas when humans project themselves into the spirit world, as Aang does in ATLA, they cannot bend.

Tui and La were not the only spirits in the original. There is also the Painted Lady and Heibai who were strongly connected with certain pacea and were part of the natural ecosystem. They also had no problem crossing over. In Korra we are told that the Evil Spirit of Darkness was the one who broke the barrier between the worlds, Spirits invaded and drove humanity to the back of the Lion turtles. Here they are clearly not part of the natural world.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Didn't the Lion Turtle teach Aang how to remove bending? Using, one might add, the exact gesture they use to grant it? 

It gave  him the ability to bend the energy within others (and presumably himself). However Aang is already the Avatar, not some rando. Bending in the original  wasn't a superpower that one could just be granted. It required training and a certain spiritual attunement or connection with the respective element.

Also it still contradicts the original.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Nothing about Korra season 2 is remotely as terrible as the midiclorians. It fits perfectly with what we got about the spirit world and bending in ATLA, and yes, they're explaining the mechanics in greater detail, but not in a way that is contradicorily.

If Beginnings doesn't contradict what has been previously established, then neither do Midichlorians. And the latter are only ever mentioned in two single scenes.

11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

But Korra isn't just Season 2. Whatever your issues with that season, 3, and most of 4, stand right up there with ATLA.

I disagree. Season 3 has very little substance two it besides some really good action. Season 4's pacing was awful (from what I remember), it horribly mishandled Kuvira and screw that mech-laser bs.

Honestly the worst thing about Korra is its missed potential. As a character Korra is set up as someone who can't just punch all.their problems away and yet she solves every of her problems with punching.

Same with the characters of Mako, Bolin and Asami.

Furthermore, while it sets up more complex issues than the original, it fsils to explore them in sufgicient detail.

9 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

You may dislike it, but Korra definitely measures up to ATLA. 

I emphatically disagree

10 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Lolwut? 

It mangles the Ying-yang symbolism by making a manichean fight of good against evil and reduced the Avatar from this powerful entity that is both spirit and human and would reincarnate time and time again to keep balance in the world to being the host of a giant glowing tapeworm. That does not appear to have been the case originally:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080730143647/http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/thelegend.php

Quote

The Avatar is the incarnation of the Spirit of the Planet in human form.

Which makes sense with the name "avatar" and with what we have seen in the original series, even though it's not spelled out explicitly.

Likewise the spirits were turned from a natural part of the ecosystem to extra-dimensional invaders. And there is the part where people are just given the ability to bend by the lionturtles. And the DARK AVATAR

And he did it while not being disguised as some random nobody.

Seriously what was the point of "Halbrand" with ""Annatar apparently being part of season 2?

The point is that the creators' post-TLA work, including Korra, just doesn't measure up to the original.

Edit Also Vaatu and Raava are so much worse than Midichlorians.

11 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Yeah okay it's going to be shit. Sokka learning to not be such a dickhead was, like, his character arc you fucking donkeys. 

Why? He had his sexism beat out of him by episode 4 in the original and, if we go the episode titles, that would have been episode 2 in this remake. It's not like something that has/would have had a distracting presence throughout the show.

Also from the article:

Quote

Sokka’s sexism won’t be the only difference “Avatar” fans see in Netflix’s “The Last Airbender.” Showrunner Albert Kim previously said the show does not begin the same way the animated series does. The live-action series will also show the genocide of the Airbender people and the rise of the Fire Nation, which was only alluded to in the animated series.

“That was a conscious decision to show people this is not the animated series,” Kim said. “We had to sometimes unravel storylines and remix them in a new way to make sense for a serialized drama. So I’m very curious to see what’ll happen in terms of reaction to that.”

I mean I get trying to justify the existence of the series via these changes and the need to pat the runtime of individual episodes, but this a very strange example. How does making a serialized drama necessitate showing these events?

4 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

What crap with the comics? They're not all excellent or anything, I see nothing Lucas-like here. They also put out Legend of Korra, which is pretty great, AND manages to not be a rehash in any way. 

I disagree with regards to Korra, but focusing on the first two comics:

The Promise starts off by tackling an interesting problem: How to handle the colonies the Fire Nation has placed all around the Earth Kingdom.

In short: The characters are blind, don't talk to each other and are far to quick to resort to violence. The issues that it raises aren't dealt with the care and time they deserve.

The Search decides to rob Ursa of any intrigue to just have her be the victim of an completely unambiguous Ozai.

https://loopy777.livejournal.com/15207.html#cutid1

And worst of all: Sokka is criminally underutilized in these comics.

I absolutely hate Shadow of Wardor, but I have to say that I respect it more than Amazon's product. It has a certain ambition to tell this grim tale about the destructive nature of revenge and the corrupting desire for domination full of moral ambiguity. It is just that it does it in a thoroughly un-Tolkienian manner. Also the writing, especially with the main character, isn't strong enough enough. If the writing were improved and if were allowed to be an original setting, I think it would be great.

ROP on the other hand lacks that ambition. The way it mangles Tolkien is just so lazy.

The trailer does lack the same energy the show had, but that's probably because of the change from animation to live-action.

1 hour ago, Maltaran said:

There was at least one old fire bender who wasn’t Iroh

I suspect that was Roku.

18 minutes ago, Werthead said:

• The Last Airbender
• Warriors
• Omashu
• Into the Dark
• Spirited Away
• Masks
• The North
• Legends

No idea what that will be about.

18 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Mostly OG Season 1 characters with a few exceptions. I'm wondering if the Owl Dude is the Narrator or something. I suspect Team Azula is around purely in the flashbacks and we don't get much from them until the end of the season (recall that Azula is actually in OG Season 1, twice, but has no dialogue).

I suspect a Zhao flashback/current time event where he goes to the library and finds out about the nature of Tui and La.

5 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Jet and Jun are both in the trailer, and I’m reasonably sure I saw Jeong Jeong as well.

Jun and Jet I saw, but where is Jeong Jeong?

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

You need Zuko to be shown to be willing to oppose the Fire Nation early. Even if he's not doing it incredibly actively like he does later, you need to set that up in act 1 so that in act 2 it makes more sense why he goes as far as he does. And Zuko repeatedly goes against the Fire Nation orders in order to save his honor and redeem himself in act 1, even if he's not actively fighting against them like he does in Act 2 and 3. 

And none of that needed Azula. And even still his actions were more directed against Zhao specifically then the Fire Nation.

18 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Azula's pretty glory-obsessed too, but sure - Zhao isn't as coldhearted. My point is that both Zhao and Azula serve similar story beats - which is a representation of the really bad parts of the Fire Nation and an antagonist for Zuko other than Aang. We need Zuko to both attempt to try and get Aang AND attempt to resist the Fire Nation. Azula and Zhao fit that niche. 

Is Azula though? She definitely wants approval from her father but she definitely seems less interested in military glory. I cannot imagine Zhao dealing with Ba Sing Se as she has.

The resisting the Fire Nation part really comes only in later though, when Zuko becomes an outlaw. In book 1 it really only presents itself as being less of an ass.

EDIT:

14 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Because live action doesn't work that way as far as production and costs go. It is hard to have actors for one season as a bit part and then major parts later - contracts don't work that way. It is hard to adapt 20-minute episodes into 60-minute episodes easily without them feeling disjointed and inconsistent. It is hard to adapt a purely weekly episodic show with commercial breaks to a streaming, binging show and expect the same behaviors. It is hard to pay for a whole lot of characters who have only a couple lines here and there when you're filming, and it is hard to have a lot of different sets and locations. 

Honestly I don't care that much about the production problems of a giant cooperation and I don't think that I should need to. The ranters and ravers complained about Jeyne Westerling and not having three seasons of A Feast Dance for Crow Dragons and so shall I likewise do when I find something objectionable.

On the plus side though: The show looks really good. Even accounting for the advances in technology, it looks SO much better than the abomination. For now my only real concern is the number of episodes and Azula being introduced too early.

2 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

I think maybe Zhao could be Azula's mentor, to parallel Iroh and Zuko.  Zhao's anger and ambition she eats up as the only mentorship she'll ever receive from anyone would be different and probably better than the anime where she's just naturally evil and selfish.

Well first that would change Azula's character rather significantly. She comes into the series already as prodigy and a person very different from Zhao. Original Azula would resent Zhao and refuse any kind of advice, orders or mentorship from him.

And honestly why not just follow the original?

6 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Zhao is in it.  Ken Leung from Lost plays him. 

You're right. He is at 1:25. I am still not convinced about the sideburns though.

And with that there is even less reason for Azula be there. Three villains unsuccessfully chasing Aang is a bit too much.

27 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think you can but not the way you're thinking about it. What I'd do is have a lot of simultaneous plotlines in eps that move things forward for everyone and not have them quite so siloed to individual eps. 

So like having Sokka having his sexism beat of him while Katara goes of and convinces Haru to train his bending? That would still man massively overcomplicating things and it could get really contrived.

27 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I didn't say cut episodes - I said cut flab. The episodes have real pacing issues at times and a lot of slow discussion of things. In addition they often required the ep to be resolved in 20 minutes meaning you needed a standard beginning/middle/end resolution in that ep - that goes out the window when you're going for 50-60 min runtimes with no commercials. 

Again I have to say that I disagree. I never really had pacing issues within invidual episodes and I honestly recall any time where discussion was too slow.

27 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

You might be right, but that'd be one place I'd go. Zhao from a story beat element serves a very similar purpose to Azula, except he's not as compellingly connected to Zuko. It doesn't give you as satisfying an ending for him at the end but otherwise him opposing Zuko and wanting to get the glory for himself while showcasing the ruthlessness of the fire nation is pretty much Azula's beat too. 

But the issue is that Zhao does not have the same character as Azula. He is extremly hotheaded and glory-obsessed. In a way he is like Zuko, but without Zuko's compassion and sense of HONOUR!!! With that he serves as a nice foil for Zuko as they both chase after Aang.

Azula comes into play when we have already accompanied Zuko on his journey for a bit and slowly learned that he isn't simply a bad guy and a lot more conflicted. Book 2 then really dives into that conflict and Azula then helps providing further inside. There is a reason why don't have Zuko Alone in the first season. Zuko needed his failure at the Northern Water tribe and be subsequently declared a traitor and Azula comes in right at that appropriate time to rub the proverbial salt into the proverbial wound. I fear introducing her in season one is going to really mess with Zuko arc and misuse Azula in that arc. I think it needed all the elements it had to be this successful

And there is the distinct possibility that Azula being introduced this early means that she gets foiled as often as Zhao did. That really doesn't help with presenting her as a cold, calculating and efficient threat. Zuko and Zhao didn't suffer from that partially because of book 1's more episodic nature and tone and partially because they are a different kind of threat than Azula.

10 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

I heard that those 8 episodes are actually total run time longer than the original.  480 minutes vs 460.

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't think you need a whole ep for Kyoshi, especially if you bring them in for more eps around. You absolutely don't need that much for Omashu. And a couple of the other characters that you mentioned probably are going to be cut because having a lot of extras around for one ep gets expensive. 

The issue is that I don't think you can just mash the plot of different episodes together. The material needs room to breath as well as  a clear line separating it from other plots. This way it looks they are episodes with lots of fast paced adventures and episodes with important and emotional plot points.

10 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

While I think season 2 is pretty lean, season 1 is VERY flabby. There's a lot to cut and the eps were only 20 minutes anyway. My bigger concern is if they're going to bring forward more of Azula and the Firelord's storylines from season 2 that's going to cause some other things to slip. 

I emphatically disagree. The only episode that is completely cutable is The Great Divide and maybe the Fortune Teller . All other episodes contribute something meaningful that I would miss even if they weren't as good as others, e.g. Bato of the Nothern Water Tribe.

Bringing in Azula and the Firelord and replacing Zhao is, I fear, going to distract from Zuko. It would also overuse Azula.

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

My main issue is that it's taken such a titanic amount of time and money to bring just the first season of eight episodes to the screen, it's probably going to be an absurd amount of time to wait for Season 2.

Only 8 episodes? That seems rather short even with more lengthy episodes. There is either going to be a lot left out or they are rushing through the material. Season 1 of the original is rather episodic, but these episodes are needed for world and character building.

If they go like this, which I would consider the barest essentials

EP1: The Boy in the Iceberg/Avatar Returns

EP2: Southern Air Temple

EP3: Warriors of Kyoshi

EP4: The Great Divide Part 1  The King of Omashu

EP5: The Great Divide Part 2 The Winter Solstice Part 1 & 2

EP6: The Great Divide Part 3  The Storm/ The Blue Spirit

EP7:  The Siege of the North

That leaves one episode of stuff where you can slot in Jet, Haru, Jun, and/or Jeong Jeong. That is really cutting it close.

An adaptation of season 2 definitely needs more than just 8 episodes.

And speaking of the trailer, I have  nitpicks:

- Why is Azula there and shooting an arrow?

- Why do we see the Firelord's face?

- Where are Zhao's glorious sideburns is Zhao?

- Why does it appear like Zuko is trying to defend himself in the Agni Kai against his father? In the original he refused to fight, not just failed to fight.

The evil Tom Bombadil theory predates that, I think (as well as ADwD)

https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

Remember a good chunk of the leak is from 4chan, so there is a distinct chance that someone is trolling.

However even the stuff that is coming directly from TORn is bad.

If you want to have a laugh

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2024/01/18/117474-spy-report-the-rings-of-power-season-2-to-expand-on-sauron-in-huge-new-ways/

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2024/01/18/117354-spy-report-suggests-an-unhinged-season-2-of-the-rings-of-power/

3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

The show writers don’t have the rights to The Silmarillion, so unless Finrod’s death is described in thr LotR appendicss, the Tolkein estate would get sued for describing his death as it happened in Thr Silmarillion (unless they got permission from thr estate)

They could have just not included that scene, especially since it doesn't make any sense. Or they could have had Galadriel finding Finrod's grave.

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

They altered Finrod’s death… didn’t they?

Pretty much. Finrod getting branded with Sauron's sigil a sketch of Mordor, that would guide Morgoth's servants to gather and rebuilt there, and his body being taken to Galadriel conflicts with the Silmarillion's version of events.

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Avowed looks promising. Carrie Patel has been one of Obsidian's more promising writers and designers, so interesting to see what she does as a project lead (TIL she's written a fantasy trilogy, Recoletta, which sounds interesting).

The dual-wielding mage-spellslinger looks particularly cool.

What is amusing is that Obsidian look like they pursued this project because they wanted to make a blockbuster AAA-looking RPG because the market seemed to be saying that was the smarter move than making Pillars of Eternity 3. And now the market seems to be saying the exact opposite. Maybe they'll tap Josh Sawyer to do a higher-budget PoE3 now.

Not really convinced by the animations and the "feel" of the combat. It seems to lack weight and impact.

Unsuprising

I don't think that the series was a complete catastrophe wrt. viewership numbers and they invested too much money and prestige into to not have it run all five seasons.

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Which means… make the show look like Jackson’s films.

Well not only that, but also have it have wizards, Hobbits, "unlikely heroes", a friendship a hyper-competent elf and a funny dwarf, etc.

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Here’s the thing.  I don’t think they are “stupid” they must have a business or narrative rationale for the time compression.

They wanted to imitate GoT (and it's success) while adhering to what executives thinks that the public expects from Lord of the Rings.