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Lord Vance II

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  1. Lord Vance II

    Discussion of the real world history behing ASOIAF

    I think King's Landing is based on Washington D.C. - Both are named for the nations founding hero (King's Landing doesn't say Aegon but it's implied) - Both were built specifically to serve as a capitol instead of using an existing city (instead of using Oldtown/New York or Philly) - Both are situated on a major bay about mid-way down their nation's east coast (Blackwater/Chesapeake) - Both are dominated by massive, grand buildings, but most of the city is kind of crappy. and to top it off - Red Keep = White House. The Stark/Lannister war has always vaguely reminded me of the American civil war too if you flipped who the good guys are. The outnumbered and outsupplied Starks win early on because of skilled leadership and a willingness to gamble, until the Lannisters wised up and realized they didn't have to play by the same rules as the Starks. Of course, Grant didn't have Lee stabbed at a wedding, but in the broad stroke I think they're similar in how they were fought.
  2. Lord Vance II

    Boltons vs Manderlys'

    I'd push Manderly to the 8-10K range if they were pulling out all the stops, but yeah, I can see that generally.
  3. Lord Vance II

    Boltons vs Manderlys'

    Definitely the Manderlys and I don't think it's very close. I just don't see any measurement where the Bolton's come out on top over than tenure in the North and fear factor. If they were to go head-on, I think the Manderlys could easily field double the troops, maybe triple, along with better heavy horse and whatever help they could buy. The comparative wealth of White Harbor can't be overstated, I seriously doubt any other northern lord outside the Starks could just decide to build a navy, for example. If it came to blows between the two, I get the impression the Manderlys would be much more attractive allies to the lesser lords. Wyman definitely held back when he only sent 2,000 men with Robb, but I think it was on purpose. I think when Ned had Cat tell Manderly to reinforce White Harbor, I think there was a larger contingency plan where if the Northern army marched south, Manderly (and Reed I think) would keep most of their strength at home just in case. It looks like the internal threat ruined that plan, but as Wyman said, he still has most of his cards to play against the Boltons/Freys/Lannisters. I get the feeling the Bolton's long-time defiance of the Stark kings was a Dorne-type situation where the Bolton's would have lost by most measures but held out. This is definitely the bigger question. The Bolton's role in the main story and the defiance of the Red Kings give us an inflated view of them. It's starting to be evened out with TWoIaF and F&B. I've also always kind of thought the religion and migration factors against the Manderlys are overblown. It matters, certainly, but I mean, they've been at White Harbor for 700 years, even in a world that measures in the thousands, that's a long time. And sure, the Northern Lords probably think it's kind of weird they worship the 7, but it's not like the Mermen are out here evangelizing or burning weirwoods or anything. I'm not saying the other northerners don't make note of it, but I don't think its that big a deal. The Northern Lords don't seem particularly religious. I don't think Wyman is very representative of the Manderlys overall. He's fat as all hell, but his sons were knights. Manderlys brought up in F&B seem plenty competent and martial. And Wyman may not be a fighter himself but he's shown he isn't afraid to gamble and make big moves. Plus he seems pretty ready to die, so he's as wild a card as there is in the North right now. And to be fair, I'm a huge Manderly fan overall.
  4. Democracy? No way. I don't know if the Kingdom's will break back apart, but I think they should. As several folks have pointed out, the technology and transportation just aren't there to hold something that huge together, UNLESS you have dragons. The comparisons to England don't hold up because of size. I'm pretty sure GRRM has said Westeros is roughly the size of South America. England is 50K square miles, South America is 6.8 million. Again, as others have said, the North is virtually independent due largely to their remoteness. I could see Westeros eventually breaking back up into 3-5 kingdoms, though I don't see them all going independent again as it was before Aegon.
  5. Lord Vance II

    Westeros is NOT medieval Europe

    It isn't medieval Europe, but I don't see how you can argue that it isn't obviously and directly based on it. GRRM didn't write for Hollywood, he wrote high fantasy. As for an in-world reason why there aren't many Summer Islanders (black folk) in the Sunset Kingdoms is why the hell would a Summer Islander want to leave their paradise of a home for Westeros? The weather? The delights of feudalism? The cultured and welcoming people? Most of the Summer Islanders we see are traders and that one exile (I forget his name). Even outside Westeros, Summer Islanders we see are generally traders and not residents. Plus the Summer Islanders seem to make up a pretty small sliver of humanity just based on their islands being small and isolated. And, frankly, Westeros is probably so homogeneous because slavery had been outlawed for thousands of years and didn't have Valyria shipping in slaves from all over.
  6. Lord Vance II

    Cool ASOIAF knowledge and trivia for a quiz

    1) Name the 3 forks of the Trident - green, red, blue. 2) Which Stark king invaded Andalos? - Theon Stark 3) Who led the Winter Wolves? - Roderick Dustin 4) Which 3 Free Cities made up the Triarchy - Lys, Myr, Tyrosh (the lame ones) 5) What are the two rival factions of Volantine leadership called? The Tigers and the Elephants 6) What is the name of the great sea dragon who's bones lay on Old Wyk - Nagga 7) What fruit did Renly talk to Stannis about? Peaches 8) What are the names of the 3 waytowers on the way to Eyrie? Stone, Snow, Sky 9) Name a house with multiple castles (Vance, Baratheon, Fossaway, Dayne, others) 10) Who is the only Westerosi known to have sailed to the 1,000 Islands and Mossovoy? Corlys Velaryon 11) How many famous voyages did Corlys Velaryon make? 9 12) What was the nickname of the dragon Caraxes? The Bloodwyrm 13) What was the name of Brendyn River's elite archer company? The Raven's Teeth 14) Name a house that was forced from their land but not destroyed. Blackwood or Manderly 15) What are the three classes of Nights Watchmen? Steward, Builder, Ranger 16) How did House Stark acquire their Valyrian Steel Sword Ice? They bought it. 17) Which kings surrendered to Aegon the Conquorer without a fight? Stark, Arryn 18) How many great towers does Harrenhal have? 5 19) Which free city is home to the Mazemakers? Lorath 20) Which free city is known for dying their hair blue (among other colors)? Tyrosh 21) How do the Dothraki believe the world will end? Ghostgrass will kill all other life 22) What 2 colors represented the 2 sides in the Dance of Dragons? Green and Black. 23) Who taught Mirri Maz Dur the common tongue of Westeros? Marwyn the Mage 24) What is land is the castle of Pyke located on? Pyke (kind of a trick) 25) Name 4 of the 8 main Iron Islands - Pyke, Great Wyk, Old Wyk, Orkmont, Saltcliff, Blacktyde, Harlaw
  7. Lord Vance II

    Would Robert have been a better Lord than King?

    I mean that's true, but none of them ever sat the Iron Throne. Like someone else said, with less responsibility, someone above him and a wife and kids he didn't hate, maybe he could've risen to the occasion. Maybe. I just don't subscribe to Robert being an awful to the core person. Definitely not suited to rule though.
  8. Lord Vance II

    Would Robert have been a better Lord than King?

    He would have done just fine as Lord of Storm's End. GRRM has gone to near painful lengths to illustrate Lords Baratheron are generally cut from the same cloth - big, burly, black-haired, loud men to love to drink and fight. Orys, Borys, Rogar (though I'd say Rogar was definitely more capable than Robert), Lionel - If they worked out just fine, I don't see why he wouldn't. I think the judgement is a bit harsh, but I can definitely see the point. Robert Baratheon at the head of the Golden Company or the Second Sons would be a terror for Essos. Hell, if he did it after the Rebellion he would probably have the clout and cash to start his own company.
  9. Lord Vance II

    Why did Benjen take the black?

    I think there has to be a bigger reason for him to join the NW other than "it's the Stark thing to do," but I don't think it had to do with Lyanna and Rhaegar. I don't think Ned would try to dissuade Benjen from doing something so honorable, but frankly I'd think Ned would be asking Benjen for help in the aftermath of the war. One sibling was burned alive and another died in his arms. He was never supposed to be Lord and I think he would want his last brother to help him. I could totally see them having a Tywin/Kevan type of dynamic where Benjen serves as kind of "Hand of the Warden" (though I guess the Lannister dynamic is different - if Jaime is a KG and Tyrion disinherited, I guess Kevan is the heir?). I also think it's just ridiculous that the cost of supporting him and his family would make him leave Winterfell. They take new people into the castle all the time (Theon, Osha, the Frey twins, etc.). I don't think it was him pouting that he was dropped in secession either, if Ned never expected to be lord, surely Benjen didn't. It's definitely possible that Benjen was just convinced his talents would best be used by the NW though a combination of a silver-tongued recruiter and Stark family values, but I don't really buy it. Yet I don't really have an explanation. Crackpot - someone/something (the old gods/3EC?) wanted him North of the wall for unknown reasons and influenced events to make sure it happened. Who? Why? How? I have no idea. I've proposed before that Benjen is currently alive south of the Wall, sent on a mission by the 3EC (likely to the God's Eye), maybe the plan ran deeper? I've always kind of thought the same entity, if it exists, wanted Ned at the wall to, and would have succeeded if Joffrey hadn't fucked it all up. Don't ask me to defend this, I can't.
  10. Lord Vance II

    Is Benjen south of The Wall?

    He does it because his vows are to protect the realms of men, and if that takes him south, so be it. The NW vows don't forbid him from leaving the Wall or the North. The only line that may give a hiccup is "I am the watcher on the Wall," but Benjen was never a literal watcher on the wall. It needs to be secret because either A) We don't know because we don't know what the 3EC/Whoever sent him on this quest. B ) It's a total mess down there. We have no idea what the timeline is of when/if Benjen went on this maybe mission, but if it happened anytime after or in the buildup of the Red Wedding, he wouldn't be safe. Even with his NW status the Boltons, Lannisters or any of their underlings would love to get their hands on a Stark, especially if they could use the excuse that he's abandoned his post to seize him.
  11. Lord Vance II

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    Sure it was the plan. How many plans actually pan out in this story though? If things go how we think it will, with Aegon taking Storms End and possibly gaining the support of Dorne and "friends in the Reach," he's going to figure out real fast that he doesn't need Dany. And if he's seated on the Iron Throne (or at least controls much of Westeros), hell yeah he would take heed of tales of the Dragon Queen. An increasingly Mad Targ bringing with her savage dragons, eunuch legions, Greyjoy pirates and Dothraki screamers - basically a who's who of terror for Westeros. Personally I think when (if) she starts headed West, shes going to go overland to the Narrow Sea (that long of an ocean voyage is too dangerous, the Iron Fleet showed us that). Plenty of opportunities for her to get some bad press. His claim is better, he (likely) will have ousted the Lannisters and become a hero to the smallfolk, and he has a dick. Why would he work his ass off just to split power with a stranger? She's also showed no desire to share a damned thing and likely will think him a fake like more than half the forum.
  12. Lord Vance II

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    If Varys has the ability to make either of these outcomes happen, why would he want more violence? He loves to talk about how he's a friend of the little people. If Aegon wants to show he is different and offering something worthwhile to the people lords of Westeros, using the same old playbook probably isn't the way to go. I agree that more supporters would be drawn to the fact he's not a Lannister than out of any loyalty to the Targaryans.
  13. Lord Vance II

    A thought on the Iron Throne

    Good evidence, it's certainly possible. The only reason I say no is just because Aegon never really showed any lean towards sorcery. I also kind of think the Targs would stay away from magic if possible with the memory of their flight (relatively) fresh. I think more the Throne is just meant to represent the burden of rule, especially in Maegor's unique case. Neither Robert or Joffrey were even killed in the throne room. And neither prophecy nor the show should be trusted haha.
  14. Lord Vance II

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    No, Aegon VI is for real. When he was first introduced, I could see how he could've turned into a filler or a plot device, but his actions since Volantis are too big. I don't remember who in the book said it (maybe Connington?), but capturing Storms End will make his invasion a full-blown situation, and the preview gives every indication he succeeds. Cersei doesn't even know what's really happening. I 100% agree that Aegon will change his mind about paving the way for Dany and resist her. I think tales of her Targ Madness (which I think will fully manifest before long) will reach Westeros and he's going to look around and realize he rather likes being king. I have no idea how he would polish off the Lannisters, but I think houses that are sick of their BS will support Aegon just to have an alternative. Nor do I know how he would stop Dany and 3 dragons. Honestly, I don't think GRRM has time for filler. Even if Aegon VI isn't what he could be, I'm sure it's not pointless filler. And yes, I think Aegon is legitimate mainly just because I want him to be, plus him being fake is too easy.
  15. Lord Vance II

    The Doom Of Valyria mystery

    Dany stepping into the pyre with the eggs and emerging unharmed with live dragons. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but GRRM has stated that it wasn't some ancient method or something and Dany isn't really fireproof, it was a one-time thing that couldn't be duplicated. Maybe that was the tipping point in allowing magic to recover. They certainly did damage, but do you think they knew it would result in magic taking a big hit? (if the two events are related, of course, we don't know). Surely their powers are magical too. I also think there's a chance the Maesters know much more than is revealed in the world book. As Marywn tells us, the Citadel does not want magic in the world and possibly conspired to kill the last Targ dragons. I'm not saying the Citadel had a hand in the Doom (though I'm not saying they didn't). But if WE can draw parallels between the Doom and waning magic, surely they did and tried to learn what they could. TWoIaF isn't just written by a maester, it's written specifically for the king. No reason to leave breadcrumbs of a conspiracy in it.