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Kal-L

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  1. Kal-L

    Top 10 Fighters, 281 AC Edition

    As my posts tend to be erased by mods I'll be brief. Rhaegar was never ever implied to be a better fighter than Robert, neither he was praised by the best warriors such as Barristan or Jaime (who never even thought of him as a warrior) nor he was praised by GRRM himself which is Robert's case. As a warrior, Robert has the best achievements of the saga bar Barristan whether it comes to him fighting with a sword or him fighting with his hammer. Rhaegar's fans may not like it but it doesn't matter, facts are Robert smashed their favorite fair and square and thus after having defeated every loyalist champions that had come across him. Brandon has never done anything that put him near someone like Robert a war hero who put down a dynasty. His best achievement is losing at some Tourney, what a great feats.
  2. Kal-L

    Top 10 Fighters, 281 AC Edition

    Apparently doing fairly well at a tourney and thinking you are strong is enough to be ranked among the best while proving to be the real deal isn't good enough. Ok. Half the things you mentioned are false. He didn't squire with any Kingsguard, he didn't win multiple tourneys but one and his master-at-arms wasn't a KG. I see you're a lot in assumptions but as far as we know he was a very skilled fighter who got killed by one of the best warrior of his time. A random choice for the sake of it or just some Northers bias ? The guy is barely mentioned not even for his skills yet you put him among the best warriors even before the demon of the Trident ? Not sure how serious it is supposed to be taken. What kind of versatily have the others guys mentioned showed ? None since half of them did absolutely nothing. Anyway for the records on top of being a better warrior than most of them Robert is likely a better swordsman than most, having killed 6 men with a sword (one knight included) and defeated Jon Connington a notorious warrior friend of Rhaegar. No men who fought at the Trident among the rebels should be ranked higher than Robert, he was the MVP of the war fighting at the front in every battle while smashing the other side champion.
  3. Kal-L

    Top 10 Fighters, 281 AC Edition

    Because you say so ? Ah you and your usual bias, I'll add that in the same sentence Jaime said he would beat Robert, he said he would beat Arthur Dayne something you conveniently avoid to mention. Not that it would prove anything since Jaime is likely the most arrogant character out there and futhermore never fought Robert in his prime.
  4. Kal-L

    Top 10 Fighters, 281 AC Edition

    I don't see how you made that point. As far as I know neither Arthur nor Barristan fought Rhaegar with a sword in these tournaments. Is that part serious ? Did you really compare Rhaegar dismount alongside Barristan numerous kills in battle ? Did you really mix Barristan tourney victory (with a lance) with real battle victory... How were they unfavourable to Rhaegar ? His wife being kept at Kings' Landing has nothing to do with his performance at the Trident, the same goes for Lyanna being pregnant, actually in Elia's case it conveniently allowed him to outnumber the opposite side. Even though Robert had the North, the Vale and the Riverlands troops, they were outnumbered by Rhaegar's forces at the Trident something you conveniently omitted to point. You know nothing about Rhaegar's forces conditions before the battle, be careful not mixing things up with fanfictions you might have read. Actually the rebels had more battles to fight because they were still Royalist lords among their vassals. At the end you didn't provide any good reasons for it to be an unfavourable match, even taking the mental aspect Robert was a more difficult situation, his castle had been under siege for a year and who know when his brother would break with him being starved.. What is fair fighting ? Normal conditions ? Seriously, nowhere Rhaegar is ever said to surpass Robert, neither Barristan nor Jaime think of Rhaegar when they brought the greatest warrior they've met. Even with a sword Robert was able to kill 6 men and almost kill Jon Connington a notorious warrior, which is already more than whatever Rhaegar might have done in his knight life. Robert smashed Rhaegar because he was the strongest warrior, just accept it.
  5. Not sure what you mean but I have definitely seen a lot of Northerners fans claiming that Southreners weren't as tough as them, depicting them as some flowery knights. There was a time when some of these fans were fixated on the idea tha Jon would "destoyed" Loras in a "real fight". As for Greatjon Umber I definitely have him among the best warrior of realm, however putting him as superior to Robert seems really stretch to me. We are talking about a man who alongside Barristan hold the best war recording of the past 50 years. A man depicted by Ned (a veteran who fought several battle and met several great knights) as a peerless warrior, the demon of Trident a battle which Greatjon took part in. Here is what GRRM said on Robert's : Anyway I don't see what implied that Greatjon had such a level of skills, he was physically immensely strong for sure but there is nothing to put him beyond Robert, to put him at the same level is already reaching in my opinion.
  6. Not so sure about that, I personally stopped growing around 15. I suspect that Robb and Jon should have mostly reached their final height by the time of ASOS, keep in mind that those two were never meant to be particularly tall. In AGOT, Joffrey who was barely 12 was taller than both Robb and Jon who were almost 15.
  7. Well that's what I said, Jorah is one of the persons (meaning everyone bar Robert) who didn't badmouth him. About the Martells, GRRM mentioned they were displeased with the way Elia had been treated and prince Lewynn had to be threaten by the mad king. I suppose we may learn on their part in the next book.
  8. Sure that's why he never ever mentioned Rhaegar among his the references as a warrior after that (meaning when he doesn't talk to Daenerys), I mean he compared Tumco Lho to Jaime a person he particularly despised when talking about the best natural swordsman he has ever seen. The same goes for Jaime who never mentioned Rhaegar among the best warrior he's seen, he mentioned Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Robert and several others men but he never referred to Rhaegar's prodigious skills. The same goes for Ned who talked about Robert and Arthur Dayne with finest words but never anything about Rhaegar. By the way Barristan certainly agreed with it he would have said it without any problem. Rhaegar the peerless warrior who almost win. I see. At the end it's matter of point of view, some see Rhaegar as the magnificent who almost succeed others see Rhaegar as the prince who failed all. He gambled and he failed badly losing everything in the process. Rhaegar was the only choice. Aerys was mad and Vyseris and Aegon were too young. The reason are literally written in your quote, no matter how great Rhaegar might have been he was the only Targaryen choice. Sure, he was a young handsome knight. Why wouldn't he be, Loras is very popular among the folk so was Robert who was literally helped when he rebelled (which could have been seen as treason) against Rhaegar's family. A good, particularly handsome knight of royal born (highest than her). What is there of surprising here ? I thought Sansa would have been a good example of how such teenage girl would react to that kind of man. You brought every person who didn't badmouth about him, not the same. Jorah mentioned Rhaegar's skills as a warrior and compared Viserys to Rhaegar stating Viserys a disrespected king without crown who begged at every corner wasn't a true dragon (out of memory). Where are the praises here ?
  9. Kal-L

    About the Trident

    We don't know this, there is nothing to say that the fight prolonged long after Rhaegar wounded Robert, you keep insisting on the fact Rhaegar wounded Robert and so was winning their duel but if like you're implying Rhaegar was the best warrior, he wouldn't have lost against a wounded Robert. All we know is that during the fight Robert took a wound, nothing about the length is inferred, aside of the fact they clashed several times. The Dany visions showed Rhaegar on his knees if I remember it well. Did it show Robert on foot ? If not, nothing prevent Rhaegar from being smashed from his horse trying to get up and fall. What quote are you talking about ? I never seen Ned implying that Rhaegar had dismounted to fight Robert. He merely talked about a wound. I heard about the theory build on Jorah's statement which I don't subscribe, I know Rhaegar's fan have a hard time imagine him being bested fair and square but I don't buy it, not in a battle which would certainly cost the loser the end of his family. If Robert was dismounted which isn't impossible considering Rhaegar's horseman skills, there wouldn't be anything suprising in him making the prince fall from his horse while at foot. Not saying it was a desperate gamble, but that quote doesn't discard anything. The battle would still be raging even though it was a desperate act from the royalist. All it confirmed is that their fight happened while the battle had already going on for awhile.
  10. Kal-L

    About the Trident

    No, nothing about that Rhaegar is implied here. The only thing we can affirm is that Robert was among the first to fight at the battle, the rest is you trying to enforce your headcanon due to a quote which doesn't say anything. Except you still have nothing to affirm Rhaegar met at the beginning of the battle, the battle had begun for awhile when they met. You can attempt arguing the duel lasted hours but no one ever mentioned this, it was never compared to the duel opposing Daemon Blackfyre and Gwayne Corbray. I'm arguing against your affirmation that Robert and Rhaegar's fight happened at the beginning of the battle. So bring a quote from the book if you have it.
  11. Whitebeard bowed his head. "It is not my place to question the words of Prince Viserys." This is Barristan's mindset when talking about Rhaegar to Daenerys. Didn't know him and only speak of him as comparision to Viserys. What did he say about that Rhaegar which make the paragon of virtue you're trying to enforce. I don't remember what they said but I'm sure you can enlighten me, especially as neither Tyron nor the commonfolk knew the Prince personally. Certainly not a biased source. On top of that it's true that she has shown to be reliable source at judging character. By the way as I already mentioned contrary to your belief none of what those characters might have said or might have thought prevent Rhaegar from being flawed individual like basically the rest of us. The closest person you have mentioned here was mere obedient subordonate who wasn't even particularly closed to him.
  12. Kal-L

    About the Trident

    That abbreviated clearly states that Robert and Rhaegar didn't meet at the beginning of the battle, you can attempt circumventing it but nowhere I have seen stated that they met at the beginning of the battle, the quote actually showed the contrary. The quote seems to follow the events of the Trident chronologically and from what we can see Robert and Rhaegar met after Barristan was grievously wounded, taking him from Rhaegar’s side. The prince was already alone when Robert found him on the battlefield and the battle had already been going out for awhile then. I don't see why you talk about the fight in itself, I think it outwarldy acknowledged that Robert crushing Rhaegar's armour is what cemented the rebels win.
  13. "Fit together better" according to what ? The romanticized depiction of a long dead character by people who loved him to his only remaining relative that you chose to take as gospel ? You go so far that you can't even accept his failures even when they are glaring at you, be it on the battlefield or on the political field. Don't mistaken, there is no need to believe Robert's words on Rhaegar to see him as flawed individual. Contrary to what you might think Rhaegar being "highly intelligent, dutiful, and popular" doesn't prevent him from being flawed like every character from those books (or anyone actually). He certainly showed a high amount of arrogance when he thought he could insult three of the most powerful men of the realm and get away with it, that same arrogance that convinced him that he would crush Robert and the rebels at the Trident (except Robert's warhammer brought him back on earth). The way he was convinced that the prophecy had to revolve around him, that it had to be he or his progeny (an extansion of him) that was destined to save the world or whatever he believed makes me think that he was particularly egocentric. In a way I believe he was narcissistic which I dare say wouldn't be so surprising for a Targaryen. Anyway I don't see how it prevents Rhaegar from being intelligent, dutiful, handsome, popular...
  14. Kal-L

    About the Trident

    Well, GRRM has a different timeline : That comes from his blog, the royalists were already losing when Robert met Rhaegar.
  15. You conveniently missed the part were it said that he was no more pleased than Brandon, he was just able to control himself better. If it hadn't been for Brandon, Robert would have likely done something that would jeopardize his life. He isn't compared to Lyonel Baratheon the laughing storm for nothing. I had already expressed the idea that Elia might have had an affair with Dayne but I feel you're willfully bias here. There is no evidence of an affair from Elia's part yet the only people insisting on that theory (based on nothing) here are R&L die hard fan or simply Jon fans like Free Northman reborn, both with an obvious agenda that you can keep pretending not understanding.
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