JoannaL
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Posts posted by JoannaL
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IF I understand correctly there is no protection for women in this law (they say they will do it at a "later date" which is most often another word for "never")
I do not support or understand this law, but if such a law is made , I think it absolutely horrific to do it in a fashion to activly not include women. it seems like an invitation for every abuser: "I can not say something against trans people or religious minorities, but hey I can still call a woman a "....", this is still totally ok"
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13 hours ago, Kalbear said:
And that German guilt - while absolutely deserved and important - is not a universal thing that everyone else in the world needs to base their actions on.
This is not about German guilt. This is a trope of the left. "We can not objectivly see the Gaza war because of the past (we had some demonstrations: "Free Palestine from German guilt") " Thats bullshit.
This is not about the past. This is about the present.
In this present (which we (who live now) are responsible for opposed to the past -when we were no yet born-) we have antisemitism in our country. Antisemitism of the right and left and migrants. it is shocking and the partying on some street after October 7 and the attack on a Berlin synagogue has deeply disturbed our country. But I think we are fighting back quite clearly and we had strong comments and actions also of the politians of the left and Greens condemming also left and progressive antisemitsim (which is not always the main problem but clearly in this moment) We are not doing fine but we are really trying our best and I have a feeling we really fight to let our Jewsih community see that we will not tolerate their feeling of unsafety.
we also now- in the here and now that counts and that can be influenced by us - do not have ivy league heads who can say that the call to genocide on Jews is only wrong regarding the context. These people would be out of job here immediately and perhaps in jail soon after.
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4 minutes ago, Kalbear said:
Because they've repeatedly reported things that have been shown to be flat-out lies, both in this war and in previous wars.
I have several sons and a daughter. One type of death would make me angrier but I wouldn't have a preference. Cold, unfeeling murder is what your people did to mine. It doesn't make me feel any better about it.
But you and everyone else here cite the numbers the hamas government give you about the Palestinian dead. Any reason you just believe the one and just not believe the other? Was the Hamas in the past always truthful?
Have you proof that the Israeli girls and women were not tortured and raped and the Israeli lie about this? I mean were the Hamas body cameras which filmed it in real time and screened it gleefully to the world just some Israeli hoax?
About the preferences of deaths of our children we will have to agree to disagree.
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9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:
Israel authorities were and are dishonest liars about many of the atrocities they claimed occurred
Why do you think the Israeli authorities are dishonest?
"I'll also note that whether you kill a bunch of civilians without malice or anger or you kill them with maniacal glee they're still quite dead. "
I disagree if I had a little daughter I would very much prefer her to die by a bomb as collateral damage by unfeeling war than being captured and then being tortured and raped to death by hateful men who thrieve on her pain.
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1 hour ago, Crixus said:
I'm sorry, where exactly is the antisemitism?? She isn't even saying it directly, she's quoting actual UN and other experts - like Dr. Raz Segal (who is Jewish) - who say it is. But I suppose they are all colluding against Israel, right? Funny how experts are cited in the Covid thread, the Ukraine threads, and others, but suddenly lack credibility here.
Once again, it seems Israel should be utterly immune from any criticism whilst they kill thousands of innocents: even the IDF says more than 15,000 have been killed, of which they say 5,000 are Hamas - that still leaves 10,000 innocent people https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officials-15000-likely-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/. Should the world just stay silent and ignore this, or be afraid to condemn a shocking, ongoing civilian death-toll because they may be accused of being antisemitic?
As for your comment about 'half a sentence': that attack was barbaric and atrocious and evil. It also happened 2 months ago, whereas children, women and men in Gaza are getting killed by the hundreds every day right now, excepting the short pause. I should think the fact that a live, ongoing situation is getting more attention, is logical.
Obviously it is allowed and possible to critizise Israel.
when is a critic antisemitic and why do I (and a lot of other people) think Greta qualifies?
I went to our governmental sites to see if I could find a useful definiton of antisemitism and they link to the IRHA site about this:
there are examples for antisemitism e.g.:
- Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
- Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
- Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
- Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
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44 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:
Don't read too much into the Friday's for Future thing in Germany.
Climate protestors have become one of the most hated groups by a lot of people in German language countries because next to nobody wants to hear that we might not solve this problem by just switching to greener technologies. The "centrists" have moved away from pretending the care about doing anything before this anyway.
Regional governments are trying to declare protestors blocking streets terrorists and in Austria they trying to prosecute them with anti-organized crime laws. At least in Austria the state will probably lose in court but the people will be financially ruined(same thing happend to anti-factory farming protestors years ago).
Greta being pro-Palestinian is just a welcome excuse.
but you talk about two differnt groups: there is the "last generation" (and sometimes Extinction rebellion), that is blocking streets and so on and there is court action against them, and a lot of bad press.
And there is Fridays for Future , which was always the friendly- neighbour next door- kind of protest which was supported by almost everyone. Greta Thunberg was some kind of national hero in Germany. when a satirist dared to make a joke about her he was almost publicly crucified. Now this is all over - and you may be right there may be people who are glad that they could also destroy FFF. But before October 7th FFF was well established here and there were tons of politians which liked to be seen with them and there were no prosecution or court action against them that I know of.
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6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:
I'm actually totally fine if Germans want to say that they can't accuse Israel of genocide. That's fine with me.
But their guilt in the Holocaust does not mean that Israel cannot be accused by other peoples. Especially when one of the accusers mentioned is Israeli.
ok, last try:
Lets say the black people in the US feel that they can no longer live with the descendants of their slavers. Lets say they found another state somewhere else and there are problems with other people who also live there. Lets say part of these troubles lead to a situation when perhaps it can be seen that some indentured labor is happening. would it then be correct of the white people (not only of the US but everywhere) to not just criticize this situation in this country but to call all these black people "slavers" to their face or would this be very traumatic and insulting? I think it would be insulting and hate speech and in this sense Greta Thunberg is antisemitic,- because she wants to insult where it hurts most.
this does not mean that it is not possible to critizise the potential indentured labor in my hypothetical country but with other words and taking into account the harms historically done.
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3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:
Wait, this is the passage yall are objecting to - her referring to acrual experts about it?
Yes, how dare she reference...the UN and ISRAELI experts on genocide.
No I meant that one.
"The horrific murders of Israeli civilians by Hamas cannot in any way legitimise Israel’s ongoing war crimes. Genocide is not self-defence, nor is it in any way a proportionate response."
Notice that there is the half sentence -the only half sentence in the whole article- referencing the Hamas atrocities.
In the next sentence is genocide.
4 minutes ago, Kalbear said: -
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33 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:
So where is the antisemitism? Calling what israel is doing genocide is the antisemitism?
I do not think you may find in any German mainstream article in any German newspaper the genocide prejudice against Israel- which is the state of the Jews- in this moment - not even on the far left.
this does not mean that there are no articles about the Palestinian suffering or the awful politics of Netanjahu and the Israel government.
Why this problem with the genocide accusation?
to accuse someone of genocide is obviously very harsh and you would need good proof, but to accuse the state of the Jews of genocide is also in itself quite tasteless and full of enmity - and this enmity may be antisemitsm and /or be the cause of it.
here is an interesting article in the Guardian about the Jews-and-genocide relationship, which may say it better:
I think this explains quite clearly what I mean:
"There is a sadistic triumphalism in charging Jews with genocide, as though those making it feel they have their man at last. The sadism resides, specifically, in attacking Jews where their memories of pain are keenest. By making them now the torturer and not the tortured, their assailants wrest their anguish from them, not only stealing their past but trampling on it"
and
"When, for the sheer irreligious hell of it, we begin withdrawing fellow-feeling from Jews, upturning the moral universe and declaring them guilty of what was done to them, this impiety shows itself first as thinking the unthinkable, then as saying the unsayable. It is impossible not to ask – how long before we do the undoable?"
so , for me , using the word genocide is going too far, and I also do think that Greta knows exactly what she is doing since she is always repeating and renewing her attacks (beginning with awful kraken picture which was obviously antisemitic)
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another very disturbing (and by German definition antisemitic) article by Grata Thunberg regarding the Gaza war.
content: october 7 only half a sentence and worse: Israel committing "genocide"
In Germany this is all over the news again. Friday for Future Germany which is historically a very strong section of FFF is fighing for weeks now to distant themselves from Greta, but this time it may be just too much. the whole climate movement it Germany is flailing because ot this totally unnecessary involvement in the Hamas attack and following war.
Personally I can say that at my daughthers school all FFF groups and activities stopped about 5 weeks ago. No one is doing anything for the climate any longer, which is stupid, because climate problems will not go away only because some activits are antisemites (though they would claim they aren't). But perhaps another movement, which is not FFF , is needed now.
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33 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:
Some of the people are getting released, some finally get to go home after being treated terribly, and that's great. But if you really do want to talk about the differences between the two? Here's a thought for you, only some of the hostages being released will get to go home and be without the constant spectre that the people who kidnapped them will be able to imprison them again whenever the hell they want.
and the other go home with the feeling they can be attacked and slaugthered without mercy at any moment like on october 7th
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11 hours ago, TrueMetis said:
Kidnapping is just unlawful detainment, no exchange required. Like child abductions are often done by a parent and there's never any demand or ransom made but that's absolutely a kidnapping. Didn't realize this was controversial.
Though if you think they're not getting anything by showing they have complete power over the populace and there's basically nothing that can be done to stop them IDK what to tell you. I guess technically that's not like, directly in exchange for something. Although given they're constantly using these people to swap for IDF soldier that get captured and the like I'm not sure how by even you're definition they aren't hostages.
And yeah, I am equating them. Because they are in fact equivalent. You don't need to get into the nitty gritty of each individual kidnapping victim to understand that one group of individuals unlawfully held against their will is much like another group of individuals unlawfully held against their will in that they're being unlawfully held against their will, IE kidnapped.
Thats nonsense, sorry I do not understand what you want to say. What did 2 year old girls do? Isreal did not detain any young children. Only the Hamas terrorist did. Obviously there is a difference.
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Doron Katz Asher, 34, and her two daughters Raz, 4, and Aviv, 2, are free.
I had seen an interview with their desperate husband and father in german television some time ago, and i remember thinking how unlikely a good outcome is, and how awful this situation was for this poor man (hoping and hoping and in the end only death). I am so glad that I was wrong.
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2 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:
Anyone demonizing Israel and its diverse citizenry as an ethnostate while demanding the establishment of a Palestinian state that will have no Jews is obviously full of shit. There is no explaining this hypocrisy away, which is why it is so fucking inherently stupid to try to argue.
Yes, thank you, the palestinians obviously want an ethnostate , so it is totally absurd to support that and critizise other ethnostates.
Also about the hostages, really its in the hand of Hamas, they took them. Sometimes its sound that this is the fault of the Israeli but it isnt. Its the fault of Hamas.
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4 minutes ago, Kalbear said:
As stated before this is not particularly new or unique and was done in various ways by the US and coalition forces in Iraq and afghanistan.
Interesting. Do you have sources.
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16 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:
What I don't understand is why those buildings are being bombed in the first place. From that interview it is clear that they were residential buildings. No suggestion of them being used by Hamas, unless I misread something. So why are they being targeted?
We do not know why these building were targeted the civilian also didnt know. This does not mean there was no reason. Why should the Israeli discuss this with a dentist if there were Hamas in there or tunnels ?
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Very interesting article in bbc.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079
The israeli military called a palestinian civilian to help with evacuation before bombing. I think this is extraordinary and I do not know of any other army ever which did that. It likely saved a lot of lives.
- House Balstroko, Bael's Bastard and Ran
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2 minutes ago, JoannaL said:
No, I alsways thought that the LA times is mauch more reliable than Foxnews. And it is not a republican leaning newspaper
Also its Californian, so in this case they are on site
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2 minutes ago, Relic said:
And all you have to do is click the article and read the next sentence to find that out.
It's in the foxnews article, the "least biased" source supporters of the Israeli bombing of Gaza can hope to find in American MSM.
No, I alsways thought that the LA times is mauch more reliable than Foxnews. And it is not a republican leaning newspaper
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6 minutes ago, Relic said:
Again, the police press release -
"Witness accounts indicated that Kessler was involved in a physical altercation with [pro-Palestinian] counterprotesters," the release continued. "During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground."
The Guardian clearly states that there was an altercation, and that police are investigating this as a homicide.
do you have a scource for the police press relaease?
states "Jewish man in California dies after being hit in the head during dueling Israel-Hamas war protests"
and "Kessler, of Thousand Oaks, was struck in the head, knocked backward and hit his head on the ground, deputies said."
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1 minute ago, Relic said:
And Foxnews says he was hit in the head with a megaphone that someone threw. Police dont have all the facts as of yet, and are looking for witnesses. Might be interviewing some as we type.
What's your point?
I think there is a difference between just stumbling and falling or being attacked?
UK Politics: Not even a Penny for a new Prime Minister
in General Chatter
Posted
No, this will conveniently get lost in committee.
If they had wanted to protect women, they would have put it in this bill and then make later an advanced law.
They obviously wanted to make it clear that the rights of women are lesser than the rights of some minorities. Shame on them.
It was always clear to some that the fighting alliance for equal rights of women, religious minorities and the queer community had some faultlines. Now it is clear (again) that women always stand alone and are just expected to take it.
I stop writing now, i am really getting very angry.